Topic: Damn, no more Twinkies!

[phillyherdfan]

Let's assume that is all true (because most of it is).  So what?  If "private equity" bought the company with that intention...don't they own the company, even if they are leveraged 10000/1 to do it?  Isn't it theirs to sell?  Sucks ass if you're sweeping a floor somewhere (or if you're one of their lawyers), but isn't that the reality?  And, shouldn't it be?  Or are we to start telling other people whether and how they can sell their own property?

I'm not arguing it's not ok.  I'm simply stating a fact.  People can churn and blame it on the unions or on management or Obama.  But, the facts are that a very small number of executives are going to make millions (maybe billions), while the workers are without jobs.  Is it right?  As a business owner I would never do that to my employees... no matter how much I was making on a deal.

[mxman870]

I never called you a Pu$$y but I suspect by your own assumption you may very well be an overpaid pu$$y. You are the one that brought up how hot and hard you had to work not me. As far as IQ levels I am willing to bet I am probably superior in this area also. My job is far from being menial and repetitious. And just like yourself,,, I could care less about anything about your pathetic life. Dumba$$es like yourself give good competent lawyers a bad name. Its people like you I wish I could buy for what they are worth and then sale for what they think they are worth. Just another scum sucking lawyer. And before you ask ,,,I did a little research and the only reason there are no chimpanzee lawyers is because they couldn't find a single monkey  corrupt enough to take the frigging job. Touche banana breath. Thanks for playing tho.

[mxman870]

I'm not arguing it's not ok.  I'm simply stating a fact.  People can churn and blame it on the unions or on management or Obama.  But, the facts are that a very small number of executives are going to make millions (maybe billions), while the workers are without jobs.  Is it right?  As a business owner I would never do that to my employees... no matter how much I was making on a deal.

philly,,,,, that is because you have morals,,, a conscious,,, and care about your employees. 

[phillyherdfan]

philly,,,,, that is because you have morals,,, a conscious,,, and care about your employees. 

This morning I interviewed a new Wharton grad for pretty high level job.  Normal interview questions... one of which asked him to describe himself.  The first words out of his mouth was "I'm a capitalist"...  I asked him to elaborate on that.  He went on ad nauseum about free market systems, etc, etc.  I then asked him what it meant to him... his reply "to get as much as possible for myself, no matter the costs".  I gave him a nice lecture, sent him on his way, put his resume in the trash and then poured my leftover thai food on top of it.

Sadly, MX, we're breeding these miscreants.

[wasbarryb]

Really, I didn't pay attention to who made the comment.  The Comment was my issue, not the person behind it.  Nobody is "keeping anybody down" when a company and an employee "negotiate" wages without a union involving itself.  It's not like the company imposes a wage on someone and they just slave on forever, having no choice in the matter.  That is a cowards way of looking at it.   A job is a voluntary thing.  Quit if you think you're getting ripped off.

And since you're talking trash about whether or not I could keep up with you, at age 58, who knows.  So who care if I couldn't?  I don't have to.  So, I guess I'm not a "real working man" like you.  I guess I'm just an overeducated p*ssie, because I don't sweat my ass off and risk injury and death every day?  Or maybe I was smart enough to recognize as a young man that there was another way.  Maybe, unlike yourself, I was actually smart and resourceful enough to take that other way?

So, you infer that I'm a p*ussie with the "real workin' man" comment.  Or whatever that was meant to say.  That's fine.  I don't know you (as far as I know).  I'll continue with my assumption that you're basically an overpaid chimpanzee who, through VERY little training and a lot of repetition, has gotten good at performing a menial task over and over and over, droning on in your pathetic existence.  Or, at least that you DID do that, before you started taking advantage of an overly generous pension that you didn't earn.  You go on assuming that I am whatever you think I am, crooked I guess. 

Or...we can just assume that "monkey work" was a figure of speech, much like crooked lawyer is, that no offense was meant and that none should be taken. 

Doesn't matter to me.

For someone who doesn’t care what others think you spend an awful lot of time responding to every possible slight and whining about how people don’t know you.

It’s very clear to me you’re a pompous arrogant a$$ that thinks he knows everything about anything, while demonstrating he knows very little. A job isn’t a voluntary thing, it’s a necessity. Ask someone who’s lost their home due to being laid off. Ask the Cancer victim that filed bankruptcy because their illness prevented them from working. Ask the Down’s Syndrome person working for less than the minimum wage with a smile on his face and warmth towards everyone he meets.

There are many reasons why people end up in jobs you so clearly feel are beneath you and majority of those reasons aren’t because they are lazy, or dumb, or any of the other insults you use to label them to make yourself feel superior to others.

[The E-Man]

I'm not arguing it's not ok.  I'm simply stating a fact.  People can churn and blame it on the unions or on management or Obama.  But, the facts are that a very small number of executives are going to make millions (maybe billions), while the workers are without jobs.  Is it right?  As a business owner I would never do that to my employees... no matter how much I was making on a deal.

God Bless You, Phillyherdfan for taking a stand!

[The E-Man]

I never called you a Pu$$y but I suspect by your own assumption you may very well be an overpaid pu$$y. You are the one that brought up how hot and hard you had to work not me. As far as IQ levels I am willing to bet I am probably superior in this area also. My job is far from being menial and repetitious. And just like yourself,,, I could care less about anything about your pathetic life. Dumba$$es like yourself give good competent lawyers a bad name. Its people like you I wish I could buy for what they are worth and then sale for what they think they are worth. Just another scum sucking lawyer. And before you ask ,,,I did a little research and the only reason there are no chimpanzee lawyers is because they couldn't find a single monkey  corrupt enough to take the frigging job. Touche banana breath. Thanks for playing tho.

Man, I've never seen you so "livid" mxman870..If only Greg H knew you, he would "respect you" as a true man's man!

[BuyNtelos4]

All unions are not created equal, nor are all union employees.  I don't know why when someone complains about a certain union, all union people become offended.  There are some union jobs a monkey could perform, and some unions/union members expect way way to much for the work they are performing.  On the same token, there are other unions/union employees whose work comes with so much danger and hard work that no matter what the dollar figure they are receiving is, it could be said that it isnt enough.  Perfect example of the problem-- Detroit.  Auto workers I believe expect to work for 30 years, then retire and receive a full pension.  If I am slightly off on the details I apologize, but I can't be to far off or Detroit would still be Detroit.  Honestly, in most situations, common sense from both sides just needs to be applied and the problem would be fixed.  If you are performing a task that anyone can perform, and you can begin doing it at the age of 18 without prior training, you should not be making 35 dollars an hour.  The world has changed, and as a nation we must change with it in order to stay ahead.  The goes for the government, the unions, the corporations, and the citizens/union members/employees.  One thing Greg is right about that I noticed, is that employers do not owe employees anything other than agreed upon wages.  No one in this day and age can say they didn't have choices.  Everyone is eligible for student loans/military etc.  If you are working in a certain industry, it is because you chose to.  You may have had certain problems or needs dictating the choice you have to make, but those same problems or needs are often still due to a choice you made.  Even once you have gone into a certain field, if you really want out, you can pretty much do anything you want nowadays taking classes in the evening and online other than perhaps attend medical school.  Not to bring up lawyers but there are even law schools offering programs for working adults with evening classes throughout the entire program.  
If we are unwilling to perform jobs in this country for a figure that will allow companies to be able to afford to compensate us and still make a profit, then companies are going to continue to move jobs to other countries.  I'm not advocating companies refusing to pay fair wages here and moving overseas when they could afford to stay here and be successful, or move jobs overseas and be ultra successful, but if said business can only stay afloat by moving the jobs, then that is just what they have to do.  That's likely when the situation of Americans demanding more money than the job they are performing is worth comes into play.  

If you run an electronics company in the US, and labor is costing you 30 dollars an hour, and your largest competitor is having his electronics produced in Japan for the equivalent of 15/hour, how long do you think business A is going to be able to remain in business?  It isn't at all fair the way all this works.  I do not know what it will lead to for the US in the long run, but our population keeps constantly growing, and aside from Healthcare and fast food, jobs keep dwindling.  It had became to expensive for companies to manufacture in the US.  It creates a monopoly affect of one bad thing after another.  I know the healthcare jobs continue to increase, but it other industries continue to decrease, the only person left to pay for the medical care is going to be the government, which is already broke and the problem isn't even anywhere close to bad yet, when compared to his bad it could get.  If available jobs continue to decrease, you have even less people and less people paying taxes, so even less money for the government.  I honestly am at the point in my life, maybe even a little last the point that I am ready to have children, and AJ am honestly afraid of what this world/country may be like 30 years from now for the child I would have today.  I honestly think our country is in more trouble than our athletic program, and that is saying something.  I realize one is important and the other means nothing in the grand scheme of things, so let's all hope we start winning National Championships real soon:)

[mxman870]

Man, I've never seen you so "livid" mxman870..If only Greg H knew you, he would "respect you" as a true man's man!

E-Man,,, I guess I take things too personal when I should just let it go. Comparing US to a monkey probably was the trigger point and then I attempted to make a point and no doubt took it too far, My bad folks.

[spaldy]

The government will get involved in this.  It will probably come down to some unelected, job for life, activist federal judge issueing a ruling that the union demands will have to be met.   Stuff that was unfathomable 30 years ago is common place. 

Unelected bureacrats making rulings shutting down power plants, opening up dams and killing millions of acres of fertile farmland in central valley, mandates issued by some fed without regard to the cost to a state, social security and medicare funds looted by the feds and then we have to go back and beg for the money to meet the obligations since it was wasted on liberal agendas that had nothing do do with Social security or medicare.  A national healthcare act that's rushed through in the middle of the night with no one even bothering to read the 2500 pages.

  Of course the best is that these same criminals then exempt themselves from all of the laws and regualtions they instill on others. 

[The E-Man]

E-Man,,, I guess I take things too personal when I should just let it go. Comparing US to a monkey probably was the trigger point and then I attempted to make a point and no doubt took it too far, My bad folks.

Dave, you don't owe me or any other Herd fan an apology over Greg H. The guy has some serious (MENTAL ISSUES, ONE IS BEING A JERK!). I tried to be be amicable in a friendly manner with Greg and what happens next? the "jerk" made a derogatory comment that was offensive on one of my threads. To use the (term "monkey" is very offensive to me as a black man.) There are a lot of black union workers, that I'm sure would feel the same as me. Dave you did the right thing to stand up for what's right.

[Greg H]

Dave, you don't owe me or any other Herd fan an apology over Greg H. The guy has some serious (MENTAL ISSUES, ONE IS BEING A JERK!). I tried to be be amicable in a friendly manner with Greg and what happens next? the "jerk" made a derogatory comment that was offensive on one of my threads. To use the (term "monkey" is very offensive to me as a black man.) There are a lot of black union workers, that I'm sure would feel the same as me. Dave you did the right thing to stand up for what's right.

Let me address this please.  I'll admit I'm a jerk where politics is concerned.  Guilty, and not just a little bit.  On the other hand, I did not use the term "monkey work" with any racial intention.  To be honest, the racial connotation of that word did not occur to me.  But I see your point.  So I apologize.  I should have been sensitive enough to remember the racial connotation of that word.  If it had, I would not have used it.  I love to offend people in political conversations because I hate political correctness and the censorship it stands for.  But I do not want to hurt anyone on racial grounds. 

So, hate me for being a "mental," offensive and hateful libertarian...but please accept my apology on the monkey thing.  I did not mean to offend with that.

[gtrman4herd]

This morning I interviewed a new Wharton grad for pretty high level job.  Normal interview questions... one of which asked him to describe himself.  The first words out of his mouth was "I'm a capitalist"...  I asked him to elaborate on that.  He went on ad nauseum about free market systems, etc, etc.  I then asked him what it meant to him... his reply "to get as much as possible for myself, no matter the costs".  I gave him a nice lecture, sent him on his way, put his resume in the trash and then poured my leftover thai food on top of it.

Sadly, MX, we're breeding these miscreants.

Bravo sir! A good lesson taught in morality!

[The E-Man]

Let me address this please.  I'll admit I'm a jerk where politics is concerned.  Guilty, and not just a little bit.  On the other hand, I did not use the term "monkey work" with any racial intention.  To be honest, the racial connotation of that word did not occur to me.  But I see your point.  So I apologize.  I should have been sensitive enough to remember the racial connotation of that word.  If it had, I would not have used it.  I love to offend people in political conversations because I hate political correctness and the censorship it stands for.  But I do not want to hurt anyone on racial grounds. 

So, hate me for being a "mental," offensive and hateful libertarian...but please accept my apology on the monkey thing.  I did not mean to offend with that.

OK, apology accepted in good grace. so let's be friends again and tone down the insults to my Herd brothers. We are a brotherhood on Herd fans.. I hope you can meet Dave "aka mxman," me, and many others. You will find out, we are all the same with many differant professions from all walks of life. Greg, I'm sure you are not a bad dude, it's the way you come across on here that offends many people including myself. Like I said, I have no problem with being your friend. Just be cool! Herd fan..

[spaldy]

Gents,

I don't think anyone on Herdfans is one of the ruling elite we have in DC. 

No reason to be nasty to each other.  Be nasty to them.