Topic: Out of control?

[2xBison]

Sturt

Have your mom bake us cookies and all will be forgiven


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[_sturt_]

So, I take it that (a) no one has a problem with what Pat indicates are the standards he's going to implement on that board in spite of the fact that they are hand-in-glove fit, echoing essentially the substance of this thread... annnnnd... along with that, (b) there's agreement that mods should aspire to stay neutral, and not take sides.

I mean, I've seen mods actually appear at the top as visiting this thread on a few occasions, and I've seen some of the more contentious posters also appear there. No one, though, takes issue with the legitimacy of these standards... or at least it seems safe to say, no one feels capable of making an argument to the contrary.

Can we call that progress? I think so. We'll see.

This certainly is the board for testing it out since the only thing governing people here is their own integrity. If even in the absence of explicit top-down rules, you are all about civil, mature, intelligent disagreement here... and if as a mod you do not take sides even in this place where there's no fall-out if you fail to abide by that principle... then it says something very admirable and respectable and adult about you.

(And needless to say, the converse is also true, of course.)

[_sturt_]

So, I take it that (a) no one has a problem with what Pat indicates are the standards he's going to implement on that board in spite of the fact that they are hand-in-glove fit, echoing essentially the substance of this thread... annnnnd... along with that, (b) there's agreement that mods should aspire to stay neutral, and not take sides.

I mean, I've seen mods actually appear at the top as visiting this thread on a few occasions, and I've seen some of the more contentious posters also appear there. No one, though, takes issue with the legitimacy of these standards... or at least it seems safe to say, no one feels capable of making an argument to the contrary.

So with all these mods and contentious posters... and then, all these other visitors to this thread, too... why can't anyone just affirm it? 

That is...

Affirm that civil, mature, intelligent disagreement is something we all aspire to.

Affirm that those in authority are right to aspire to neutrality, and not take sides.

Why not?

Well, I have a working theory. (To no one's surprise, right?... hehe... )

I call it the tax assessor theory.

People generally don't like to do things that draw attention to themselves and that can only work against them in the long run.

So, in this case, it goes like this.. "Better to just be silent. I don't want to risk publicly endorsing what is right, but that would almost certainly upset the tax assessor lest I get on his wrong side... as it appears my neighbor has done. Clearly there's a heavy hand there that doesn't actually have to have an actual reason to take action against someone they've grown to dislike."

And if that theory applies here, to that sentiment I say, that's only reasonable.

(Though, I should add, your neighbor's circumstance is not in reality all that bad, and he does sleep better at night than the tax assessor can.  8) )

[_sturt_]

What a breath of fresh air (... ie, having nothing to do with the poster in this exchange, but everything to do with Pat as mod, and how he decided to deal with the situation).

It should be no shame on any mod or admin to speak to posters as-if they are, otherwise, equals/peers and thus worthy of some basic level of respect.

Herd fans, like this one and every one, deserve to know what they did that offended any published rules. And especially so if they offended some unpublished rule.

People deserve to have the opportunity, after having been made aware of what the problem is, to make changes to accommodate their new knowledge.

Discipline shouldn't even be a consideration, per se.

But if it were, then discipline should conform to the directives that are published. They should not be pulled out of the blue.

Admins and mode can take sides in the debate, of course, but should not take sides in terms of any punitive actions. And in that same vein, whining should be treated among adults just like it is treated when it's performed by 5 year-olds.

That is how it should be. It's not. But should.

And don't be blind... if they can do it to a 12 year veteran of this board who helped build enthusiasm for it through the years, they can eventually do it to you, too, if you, too, fail to obey the unpublished rules.

Not standing up so much for myself here, as much as I'm just standing up for what is right in general. And all the words above... they are right.

[_sturt_]

1. Kinda nice to see the "thanks" from a somewhat unexpected source. Not to throw shade, but just curious... intentional or inadvertent click?

Hopefully the former.

2. Seems self-evident either someone seriously wants to pull more interest to this forum away from the regular one, or this thread is bothering someone greatly.

I'm guessing the latter. And, if so, then maybe that's as it should.

Pat didn't mean to embarrass anyone, I'm sure. He only did what comes naturally to him, given the principles that he said that he would follow... and... that he, then, acted consistently with. No hypocrisy there.

[The E-Man]

1. Kinda nice to see the "thanks" from a somewhat unexpected source. Not to throw shade, but just curious... intentional or inadvertent click?

Hopefully the former.

2. Seems self-evident either someone seriously wants to pull more interest to this forum away from the regular one, or this thread is bothering someone greatly.

I'm guessing the latter. And, if so, then maybe that's as it should.

Pat didn't mean to embarrass anyone, I'm sure. He only did what comes naturally to him, given the principles that he said that he would follow... and... that he, then, acted consistently with. No hypocrisy there.

It was intentional, you deserved a thanks!

[_sturt_]

[_sturt_]

Thank Pat.

[_sturt_]

[_sturt_]

1. Kinda nice to see the "thanks" from a somewhat unexpected source. Not to throw shade, but just curious... intentional or inadvertent click?

Hopefully the former.

2. Seems self-evident either someone seriously wants to pull more interest to this forum away from the regular one, or this thread is bothering someone greatly.

I'm guessing the latter. And, if so, then maybe that's as it should.

Pat didn't mean to embarrass anyone, I'm sure. He only did what comes naturally to him, given the principles that he said that he would follow... and... that he, then, acted consistently with. No hypocrisy there.

Just going on record... I for one don't mind Big City doing what Big City decided to do.

It only drives maybe a very few more posters to visit this board, and... ironically enough... has ended up ratcheting up the read count on that "Out of Control" thread that "coincidentally" gets pushed farther and farther down.

Would be a shame if he heeds the majority opinion on that thread where he asked others to weigh-in... but then again, no one would seem to have any greater reason to tamp down that whole idea of mods not taking sides.

(Equal, to be sure, but not greater.)

[riflearm3]

Just going on record... I for one don't mind Big City doing what Big City decided to do.

It only drives maybe a very few more posters to visit this board, and... ironically enough... has ended up ratcheting up the read count on that "Out of Control" thread that "coincidentally" gets pushed farther and farther down.

Would be a shame if he heeds the majority opinion on that thread where he asked others to weigh-in... but then again, no one would seem to have any greater reason to tamp down that whole idea of mods not taking sides.

(Equal, to be sure, but not greater.)

 In all seriousness, are you married, live with anyone, been evaluated lately?

[_sturt_]

rifle, you disappoint me (not that I think it matters to you, of course)... someone who so often hails his love of sticking to substance, and then, so easily deflecting to personal attack and demonstrating you've got nothing of substance to say.

I'm completely transparent here. I know that bothers some people, perhaps like yourself. So, you take your potshots and giggle to yourself at what a masterful job you did. But what do I really care. I have no one here to kiss up to. My friends here are my friends regardless. And enemies, evidently, the same.

Having said that. I'm not your enemy, nor anyone else's who lives up to the code that Pat espoused. I start from a premise that everyone has a right to expect a basic respect as a person. Always have. And again, that bothers the flamer/whiner clique because it ends up making them look bad when they fail that standard themselves.

If you desire a genuine conversation about whatever, my e-mail address is gregthompson@herdalum.org. But I'm not going to be dragged into the insult contest thing, nor away from the substance of what I've written.

[_sturt_]

I should perhaps repeat, though... having said that... over time, people can prove dshoe was right.

So, if the time comes when I don't respond, it could very well be I'm just too busy for the moment... or, it could be that I concluded that Dan was right once more.

[riflearm3]

rifle, you disappoint me (not that I think it matters to you, of course)... someone who so often hails his love of sticking to substance, and then, so easily deflecting to personal attack and demonstrating you've got nothing of substance to say.

I'm completely transparent here. I know that bothers some people, perhaps like yourself. So, you take your potshots and giggle to yourself at what a masterful job you did. But what do I really care. I have no one here to kiss up to. My friends here are my friends regardless. And enemies, evidently, the same.

Having said that. I'm not your enemy, nor anyone else's who lives up to the code that Pat espoused. I start from a premise that everyone has a right to expect a basic respect as a person. Always have. And again, that bothers the flamer/whiner clique because it ends up making them look bad when they fail that standard themselves.

If you desire a genuine conversation about whatever, my e-mail address is gregthompson@herdalum.org. But I'm not going to be dragged into the insult contest thing, nor away from the substance of what I've written.

 It isn't a jab or a personal attack. It's a serious and legitimate concern. There have been 37 posts in this thread. You are responsible for almost 30 of them. In other words, you are talking to yourself, many times with hours in between posts, only to go back and respond to yourself numerous more times.

 That isn't normal nor does it seem healthy. I can't imagine somebody who lives with others or has daily, real life interactions with people (living ones) would spend hours per day posting messages to himself. I know that you have expressed some sort of belief that the viewer count on your thread means people are somehow wanting to be a part of the discussion or are too afraid to agree with you, but in reality, I believe it's because most people find this batshit crazy and are curious what sort of psychotic rambling you will post next.

 That's why the owner of the board expressed that he was concerned about his well-being due to your reaction to this situation. And, yes, I realize my post simply feeds into your unhealthy behavior and will result in ten straight messages from you, but I suggest taking a few days off from posting. See if you can force yourself not to read or post on the board for a few days. Take extended walks outside and have some human interaction.

[_sturt_]

That's a vast improvement on your part. And being one to assume the best in people, I'll take you at face value, okay?

Most everyone, whether my friends or my flamers, who are readers here understand to a pretty high degree what's really going on, even if they refuse to come out and admit it... and as said previously, if the tax assessor theory applies, it only serves to reason why it's not in anyone's best interest, particularly my friends, and for that matter, new acquaintances by virtue of e-mail exchanges over the last few months, to admit it.

I could spend some time here and give you a better fuller description, but I just don't have time... honestly. That's no excuse, and believe me, I'd be happy to oblige. We just moved into this new house, and I've not only a full work weekend ahead of me on that front, but I have two grant proposals, two fairly major reports, and a strategic plan for 2018-19 that have to be completed before my board of directors' annual retreat next weekend.

Feel free to read-up here, though. Use that search function, and don't just take my word for what I've said... nor for that matter, don't take Dale's word or that of any of his lieutenants... in fact, mind you, most people do fall into that trap of thinking Dale is above reproach, but it turns out, not so much... at least, if one genuinely cares to attempt to be objective.

Unlike my antagonists, I have no reason to lie about anything that's happened, and I sleep well at night. This has been the proverbial railroad treatment. And with no apparent shame for hypocrisy and lack of any form of respect for what amounts to, in legal terms, due process, rule of law, and basic respect that every human being deserves. You'll notice, none of them ever deny anything. They just assume they'll get your and others' benefit of a doubt. And they do, indeed, get that from those posters closest to them... those not closest to them, though, number far more of the visitors/readers here... and at this point about 10 of them have been turned off enough by the railroad treatment that I've received that they've made it a point to write and engage me.

So, don't grieve... I'm only "alone" in the fact that the tax assessor theory appears to be substantiated. I've always been self-secure enough regardless, though, that I don't actually need explicit encouragement to voice my opinions... and yes, that's often taken as being "narcissistic," or "pompous"... but those who make those comments are generally people who, unlike me, cannot show any evidence that they ever backed down in a discussion when they found that they were wrong... people who haven't themselves proven to have a drop of humility are not people I take seriously when they throw out those kinds of insults. They are, after all, only substituting personal attack, and yes, whining, for substance... having no substance at their disposal.

Also, don't grieve because in fact, my accusers are right to point out that I've essentially begun using this as-if a blogger here... I mean, I'm open to and encouraging conversation, but if not, then okay... and as I look at the view/read count, I'm satisfied that my thoughts and opinions and questions and comments appear to be worthy enough for many to want to click.

Your concern would be a whole lot more valid if I were posting things, and getting only 5, or maybe 10 or maybe 20 views. (*wink*)

If you want to pursue this (or anything else) further, feel free to engage me by that e-mail address... though for the same reasons just cited above, I might be slower than I normally would for the next week or two.