Topic: Toledo Game Thread

[pembrook burrows III]

Agree with many of the posters' comments. Last night was very frustrating to watch. It was just a sub-par effort by both the players and the coaching staff. Witness:

We shot 17 free throws in the first half by attacking Toledo's defense and getting them into some foul problems. But we shot 0 free throws in the second half by constantly settling for three-pointers.

The last plays of each half were the ultimate back breakers. We should have taken the last shot in the first half, but Marko mysteriously jacked a three with 7 seconds left, giving Toledo time to hit their own three at the halftime buzzer.

The play at the end of regulation was equally head-scratching. That potential game-winning play should have been in the hands of our leading scorer and best free-throw shooter (Kinsey), but West instead tried to bull his way to the basket in a move that had repeatedly failed during the course of the game. West couldn't even make a layup last night when he was open. Don't get me wrong, I love Jarrod, but last night was clearly not his night.

We were a minus 8 on second chance points, as we were simply out-hustled on the boards 48-37. Our two starting big men, 6-8 Obinna Anochili-Killen and 6-9 Jannson Williams, both grabbed a puny 3 rebounds apiece. Our leading rebounder for the second straight game was 6-3 guard Andy Taylor with 8. Andy leads the team in rebounding on the season with 32 (6.4 rpg) through pure hustle, so those angling for less playing time for him better figure out where our rebounding will come from.

Last but not least, I just think sometimes when defending perimeter players with excellent skill, we need to concentrate less on trying to steal the ball, and more on staying in front of the driver. We only managed 6 steals last night despite extremely tight guarding, but gave up innumerable drives to the basket. I know its a personal challenge for guys like #bulldogmentality, but you have to be smart as well as tough. And while we did a good job of forcing Preston of Ohio to try to use his left hand (which he was reluctant to do), it seemed like Jackson could do a straight-line drive with his right hand at will.

That's enough bitching. Just gotta learn and move on to the next one. GO HERD!

[herdorbust]

Agree with many of the posters' comments. Last night was very frustrating to watch. It was just a sub-par effort by both the players and the coaching staff. Witness:

We shot 17 free throws in the first half by attacking Toledo's defense and getting them into some foul problems. But we shot 0 free throws in the second half by constantly settling for three-pointers.

The last plays of each half were the ultimate back breakers. We should have taken the last shot in the first half, but Marko mysteriously jacked a three with 7 seconds left, giving Toledo time to hit their own three at the halftime buzzer.


The play at the end of regulation was equally head-scratching. That potential game-winning play should have been in the hands of our leading scorer and best free-throw shooter (Kinsey), but West instead tried to bull his way to the basket in a move that had repeatedly failed during the course of the game. West couldn't even make a layup last night when he was open. Don't get me wrong, I love Jarrod, but last night was clearly not his night.

We were a minus 8 on second chance points, as we were simply out-hustled on the boards 48-37. Our two starting big men, 6-8 Obinna Anochili-Killen and 6-9 Jannson Williams, both grabbed a puny 3 rebounds apiece. Our leading rebounder for the second straight game was 6-3 guard Andy Taylor with 8. Andy leads the team in rebounding on the season with 32 (6.4 rpg) through pure hustle, so those angling for less playing time for him better figure out where our rebounding will come from.

Last but not least, I just think sometimes when defending perimeter players with excellent skill, we need to concentrate less on trying to steal the ball, and more on staying in front of the driver. We only managed 6 steals last night despite extremely tight guarding, but gave up innumerable drives to the basket. I know its a personal challenge for guys like #bulldogmentality, but you have to be smart as well as tough. And while we did a good job of forcing Preston of Ohio to try to use his left hand (which he was reluctant to do), it seemed like Jackson could do a straight-line drive with his right hand at will.

That's enough bitching. Just gotta learn and move on to the next one. GO HERD!

I agree. Our bigs have always been soft under Danny. The only guy that brought production every night was Peneva. How can guys like Obinna, Williams and Beyers only get a couple rebs a night? I’ll tell you why...because they don’t want it bad enough and play with an attitude. Elmore led our team or close to it many nights. Taylor has done the same. Personally I would be ashamed if a 6’2” guard tripled me up on rebs. Everyone knows I’m a Danny fan but I can not understand how he can watch some of the horrendous bone head plays by a player sometimes and never change expressions. My goodness when a player makes 3-4 just careless horrible TO’s or really bad shots and you don’t even change your expression then why would a kid care or stop playing out of control? I believe in freedom to take any open 3 that anyone has but we see pure chaos and wild TOS and shots at times. You put a stop to it and you win games like last night instead of going to OT. They would be 5-0 instead of 4-1.

[coalherd]

I agree. Our bigs have always been soft under Danny. The only guy that brought production every night was Peneva. How can guys like Obinna, Williams and Beyers only get a couple rebs a night? I’ll tell you why...because they don’t want it bad enough and play with an attitude. Elmore led our team or close to it many nights. Taylor has done the same. Personally I would be ashamed if a 6’2” guard tripled me up on rebs. Everyone knows I’m a Danny fan but I can not understand how he can watch some of the horrendous bone head plays by a player sometimes and never change expressions. My goodness when a player makes 3-4 just careless horrible TO’s or really bad shots and you don’t even change your expression then why would a kid care or stop playing out of control? I believe in freedom to take any open 3 that anyone has but we see pure chaos and wild TOS and shots at times. You put a stop to it and you win games like last night instead of going to OT. They would be 5-0 instead of 4-1.

One of Danny's tenets has been that if a HERD play has a shot and feels comfortable/good about it, TAKE THE SHOT!  Seems like it has been a blanket policy for the whole team for quite a while.  Just doesn't mesh with the fact that NOT every player is an accomplished 3 point shooter.  In fact, there are some players who should NEVER, EVER take a 3 pointer, unless perhaps as a desperation shot at the end of the half or the end of the game!!  Can't imagine ANY Coach, HS, College, and PRO ever told people like Shaq, Manute Bol, Yao, etc., "hey, if you're open always fell free to fire away . . . 23 feet, 25 feet, 35 feet, . . . NO PROBLEM"!

So, our big forwards or our 4 or 5 players, with the exception of Iran, routinely will not hesitate to take a 3 pointer, some often quickly and some at ill advised times.  Williams is, and has been from the get go, a player who has the 3 pointer as a main weapon in his arsenal.  Byers is somewhat similar when it comes to having that shot in his game.  Now apparently Obinna is free to fire away from distance.  Wouldn't be surprise if Goran has the Green Light also.

However, when we have 2 or 3 guards in the line up a majority of the time, and then our other two big players are working, maneuvering to get a good outside shot, often a three point shot, is it any wonder that at times we hurt in the Offensive rebounding game?  We bring a big, playing the 5, up into the foul circle to set up a possible pick and roll play, point guard out between the circles, and other three players drifting around the 3 point line at various points across the court.

If our point guard gets a pick from the five and drives around and takes it to the basket, one or more of our other players can't stay drifting out around the 3pt line, somebody has to be heading in to the basket to rebound and follow the point guard's shot.  May not have been as noticeable when Elmore, at 6'3" or a tad taller, had less of a problem finishing at the basketball than West may have, being a "generous" 5'10"!!

Small wonder that Taylor is one of our better rebounders currently.  Kinsey will also probably among the rebounding leaders at season's end since his game involves more working and maneuvering to get to the basket or to get good short and mid range jumpers.  Having more of our 6'9" and above in or around the O basketball when shots are taken would go a long way in preventing the rebounding stats we saw in the Toledo game (as well as the glaring disparity in the "points in the paint" stat).  But, again, that would go against the "everybody feel free to fire those long range bombs at any time" philosophy!!