Topic: Does Kueck stack up?

[_sturt_]

In so many ways, I think that's what we're all asking, but attempting to be diplomatic about it.

Certainly he's "been around."

That's a good thing, it would seem, if you consider Bob Pruett's resume' prior to Marshall as a model. (And for that matter, you look at Donnan and see the same thing, and Chaump, and Parrish... all similar in that respect.)

Bobby's resume' featured stops at some very so-so programs -- Tulane and Wake -- and then, a couple of programs that demand a higher level of attention -- Brewer's Ole Miss, and especially Spurrier's Florida.

Marshall alum nor not, who wouldn't take a look at the defensive coordinator of, at that time, one of the top 5 programs in the nation?

When Bobby was hired, there were no raised eyebrows -- it was serendipity, and we all knew it.

Kueck's resume' features stops at some very so-so programs, plus Pruett's Marshall twice, and Bower's Southern Miss.

Kueck, perhaps better than anyone could have hoped, is well-acquainted with both the old CUSA and the new CUSA programs that are about to dot our schedule.

The hole in his resume' is that he hasn't led the offense or defense of a program that plays in the SEC, or another big-money conference.

But take a look at who Southern Miss played during his tenure there, and there's no shortage of big-money opponents... taking on Tennessee, Alabama, Illinois, and Florida ALL in 1997, sohelpme, and capping that year off with a 41-7 thrashing of Pitt in the Liberty Bowl.

In 98, Bama was still there, plus the schedule included Penn State when Penn State was Penn State, and Texas A&M when A&M was still A&M.

In 99, Kueck's offense took on Bama, A&M, and too, Nebraska... then defeated Colorado State 23-17 in the Liberty Bowl.

Having said all that, the only regular season victory over any of the BCS teams names above was Illinois -- who went 0-11 in 97.

Being an OC at Marshall is a good career omen... in 96, Kueck was preceded by Chris Scelfo who we all know is now HC at Tulane, and followed by Tim Nunez who went on to a higher paying position at Texas... and Nunez was followed by Peterson who went on to Minnesota, and then Galbraith and Zaunbrecher each took their turns before attaining larger salaries at larger schools. The point is that Marshall OCs under both Donnan and Pruett have been in-demand, and generally successful.

I guess that should count for something in Kueck's favor, too, shouldn't it?

Does it count for even more that Pruett nominated him over Gale? (Or, do you consider that less an endorsement of Kueck and more of an indictment against Gale?)

As recently as November, Kueck had been an apparent candidate for the Stephen F. Austin HC job ( http://www.ktre.com/Global/story.asp?S=2614973 ).

And here's a "Did You Know" that I didn't until just now...

In 2003 and 2004, the NFL featured THREE starting quarterbacks who sat at Kueck's feet during their collegiate career, not just the two we all know about... indeed, Nate Poole got all the credit, but remember the QB who threw the pass to him to end Moss and the Vikes' playoff hopes in 03? That would be Josh McCown who was a junior at SMU in Kueck's first year with Mike Cavan there (... though McCown transferred to Sam Houston State the following year, for reasons that aren't clear).

So, taking all of this into consideration, are you comfortable with Kueck for the long-term?

... or just comfortable with him for the 05 season?

... or just comfortable with him for spring practice?

For my own part, I "feel more comfortable," and yet, my answer to the general question hasn't changed.

.

[marcbuff]

Im willing to give him a chance. he has paid his dues here.

[_sturt_]

Im willing to give him a chance. he has paid his dues here.

That's the criteria?

If so, that would seem to point to a search that ends up with Mark Gale, wouldn't it?

[Mako]

I will remind you Sturt that a 19 year assistant at Toledump has taken their program to its most successful run in their history.  Just because an assistant gets elevated to the head coaching position does not mean it's not the right choice.  I agree that we should conduct a national search but, if the decision is that Kueck is the right man for the job, then I will support that decision.  If it is decided that someone else would be better for Marshall, so be it.

When Bobby was hired, there were no raised eyebrows -- it was serendipity, and we all knew it.

As for that statement, you obviously have a very short memory.  Marshall had, by 1995, become famous for an explosive offense and here we were hiring a guy who had never coached a single down on the offensive side of the ball.  His entire resume was as a defensive coach.  A lot of people thought there was no way he could grasp the Marshall offense.  Worse, he had never been a head coach at any level.  And, he wasn't exactly a spring chicken.  There were a lot of people that questioned Pruett's hiring for those reasons.  As it turned out, we were wrong.

[Peter Griffin]

I think that as long as the University does check out all of the options and see who the best coach is for the job then we will be alright and the majority of the fans will support whoever is chosen for the position permanently.  what i think will anger a lot of fans, and what a lot of the the people i've talked to are afraid will happen is that there will not really be that good of a search and the administration will select Kueck for a permanent job as head coach without ever really trying to do a real search process.

[_sturt_]

I will remind you Sturt that a 19 year assistant at Toledump has taken their program to its most successful run in their history.  Just because an assistant gets elevated to the head coaching position does not mean it's not the right choice.

To be fair, I can't cite statistics, but I think it's generally known that Amstutz' success is an outlier if you were to chart that kind of thing.

There's very few of those situations compared to all of those where an assistant has been elevated but never took the program to the even the same level, let alone the next level. You want a list, I'll get you a list, but I can name a half-dozen within recent memory off the top of my head: Carl Torbush (UNC), Ray Goff (UGA), Frank Solich (NEB), Bob Davie (ND), Larry Marmie (ASU), Lou Tepper (ILL), Bobby Williams (MSU)... and one that's most close to home... Brian Knorr.

When Bobby was hired, there were no raised eyebrows -- it was serendipity, and we all knew it.

As for that statement, you obviously have a very short memory.  Marshall had, by 1995, become famous for an explosive offense and here we were hiring a guy who had never coached a single down on the offensive side of the ball.  His entire resume was as a defensive coach.  A lot of people thought there was no way he could grasp the Marshall offense.  Worse, he had never been a head coach at any level.  And, he wasn't exactly a spring chicken.  There were a lot of people that questioned Pruett's hiring for those reasons.  As it turned out, we were wrong.

A very different memory, yes.

"A lot of people" is whatever you want it to be.

But among the Marshall fans in my circle, while they all would have acknowledged the concern about his defensive resume', were all convinced that there was no candidate that made more sense... a "Marshall guy" at one of, if not the, top program in the nation, and who wanted to come here... practically a no-brainer.

If you remember differently, riddle me this: who else was on the candidates list that, back then, you would say "a lot of people" thought was the better choice?

Answer that, then I might admit to the short memory charge. Otherwise, I'll have to return volley that you're a victim of convenient memory.

.

[Mako]

My "a lot of people" is no different from your "we all."  I remember much concern over his hiring among people I talked with.  Folks I talked with certainly hoped it would work out well but were quite concerned for the reasons I mentioned.  I'll grant you that elevated assistants that aren't successful are out there but I'm willing to bet their stints (in terms of years served) are no different statistically than coaches hired from the outside.

[greenday]

Hoeppner was also a successful assistant to HC transition who performed better than his predecessor.

I remember concern for Pruett because of the Nebraska sodomization and due to his lack of HC experience.  I also wanted someone younger at the time (back when I thought early 50s was really old!).

That is a good question about other candidates for the job.  I can't really remember back that far anymore.  Maybe a return of Chaump?  Maybe Scelfo?  Anyone remember?

[HerdZone]

If there are "QULIFIED" coaches out there already talking to Marcum, and if 1 of those is Mark Snyder then I want to listen and listen hard. It's going to be hard not to say no to Snyder if he wants to come here.

[_sturt_]

Hoeppner was also a successful assistant to HC transition who performed better than his predecessor.

By just a little bit if you're talking w/l pct.... and taking nothing away from Hoeppner, Walker did more with less by anyone's calculation, and pulled upsets that are lacking in Hoeppner's vitae.

As for Pruett's competition, I remember but one -- Larry Blakeney. And I could be mistaken but I seem to remember it came down to those two and maybe one other.

[_sturt_]

Addendum to the above "Portrait of a Kueckuva Coach"...

Nugget's Ghost on the CUSA board has informed the discussion in a small way -- Kueck actually didn't quite make it to OC the 1999 Liberty Bowl win for the Eagles. Bower apparently found out that Kueck had already arranged to jump ship to SMU, and found that to be too much disloyalty to put up with. So Kueck was fired.

Not the kind of information that, in and of itself, means anything. But just fwiw.

[greenday]

By just a little bit if you're talking w/l pct.... and taking nothing away from Hoeppner, Walker did more with less by anyone's calculation, and pulled upsets that are lacking in Hoeppner's vitae.

Walker never won a bowl or championship at Miami of Ohio.

[carolinaherdfan]

If we hired Snyder today, and I like him a lot, would he be willing to work the next (6) month's for an assistant's wage, and then accept the job for little more than he may be earning now.  Coach K is willing to do this, and right now money is a big factor in our selection of a new head coach.

We may be fortunate to have a man the caliber of Kueck to be our head coach at this particular time in our history.

The state is broke, and the BOG has to step-up, or the MU program will go down.

GO THUNDERINGHERD!

 :-|

[_sturt_]

We may be fortunate to have a man the caliber of Kueck to be our head coach at this particular time in our history.

We may be.

We may not be.

Unless and until a genuine search is performed, that can't be determined.

Among the "80 or 90" calls that Marcum says he received just on the day after, I would be surprised if at least 10% of those didn't come from coaches at least as competitive as Kueck.

Maybe not... but I would be surprised if that were not the case, wouldn't you all?

.

[Olen]

Mako stated:

Worse, he [Bob Pruett] had never been a head coach at any level.

Bob Pruett was a successful high school head coach in Virginia, as noted by Pruett's bio at Herd Zone:

Pruett had 14 years of high school coaching experience prior to his tenure in the collegiate ranks. From 1965-66 he was assistant football coach, head golf coach and head wrestling coach at Falls Church (Va.) High School. From 1967-69 Pruett was assistant football coach and head wrestling coach at Hayfield High School in Alexandria, Va. Pruett moved on as head football coach at Groveton High School in Alexandria from 1970-72 and then to Garfield High School in Woodbridge, Va, where he was head football coach, assistant principal and head golf coach from 1973-78.

Among Pruett’s coaching accomplishments at the prep level was a state runner-up in football in 1977 at Garfield and a state golf championship in 1966 at Falls Church.

As for the period when Donnan left, this may have been the only time that I have had any inside knowledge on any thing at Marshall (arguably):  In late 1994, I was told by someone that was fairly well connected to the AD that Bob Pruett would be the next head coach at Marshall if and when Donnan decided to move on.  

However, when Donnan did leave, what threw a wrench into the works was the unexpected interest that YSU's Jim Tressel expressed in the job.  By Dec. '95 / Jan. '96, YSU had been rebuffed by the MAC and the YSU administration had expressed reservations in increasing its financial support of the YSU football program (sounding familiar?).  With Tressel's unexpected interest, Tressel became option no. 1 for the Pres. and AD, and Pruett fell to option no. 2.  Tressel decided to stay at YSU, and Pruett became the obvious hiring option.

Pittsburgh Post-Gazette (Pennsylvania) January 1, 1996, Monday

College football

Youngstown State's Jim Tressel is heavily considering the vacant coaching job at Marshall, said his agent, John Geletka.

''There's definite interest on Jim's part, definite interest on Marshall's part,'' said Geletka. ''It's a matter of probably at this point firming up numbers and firming up some of the things Jim is concerned about with the program.''

Marshall and Youngstown both are I-AA schools. However, Marshall will play in the Division I-A Mid-American Conference as of 1997. Tressel wanted Youngstown to move into the Mid-American.

There are about a dozen additional sources that indicate that Tressel was offered the job, including the Gagzette, Daily Maul, News & Record (Greensboro, NC), etc.

In terms of candidates, there were a lot of coaches that were considered (in addition to Pruett):

Jim Tressel (YSU)
Rip Scherer (then Memphis, former JMU)
Jimmy Laycock (William & Marry)
Tom O'Brien (then UVa off. coord., now BC)
Bob Davie (then ND def. coord)
Ricky Bustle (off. coord. VT)
Mickey Matthews (then MU def. coord.)
George Chaump (former MU HC, former Navy HC, then PA HS coach)
Larry Blakeney (Troy St. HC)
Doc Holliday (then off. coord. WVU, NC State ? now)

Laycock, Matthews, Chaump and Holliday were not given as much consideration as the others on the list (more of a courtesy rather than actual interest).  

My understanding is that the preference order was:  Tressel, Pruett, Blakeney, Bustle and O'Brien.  Davie was down the list.  And Rip Scherer was not as seriously considered as HE alleged (he went so far as to allege that Marshall offered him the job first, for more money than he made at Memphis [around $200k per year at the time], but that he wanted to see it through at Memphis - even for an assist., Scherer's resume read like a coaching nomad, so that line seems suspicious, at best).  

If Marshall was capable of drawing that type of interest from a fairly good pool of coaching candidates, I would be really interested to know who is interested NOW.   :shock:

[_sturt_]

Great job, Olen... yes, how could I forget that Tressel was interested at first...

Wait, don't answer that.  :razz:

Well, let's just say that after Tressel backed off, Pruett was the man.

If Marshall was capable of drawing that type of interest from a fairly good pool of coaching candidates, I would be really interested to know who is interested NOW.

______________________ :mad: ______________________

[HerdZone]

Ricky Bustle (off. coord. VT)

Ricky Bustle- If younger, still wouldn't be a bad decision. He is now the HC at University of Louisiana Lafayette. And does well with the funds that he is appropriated for down here. He just recrutied ST. Tomas Moore's QB (Here in Lafayette) that was being recruited by Texas Tech and Baylor. The only problem I have with Bustle is he will retire in 6-8 years. If we hire a good coach and 1 that will stay, I would like him long term.

[carolinaherdfan]

Kueck, is at the head of the class, and that friend's is a hard place to be.

GO THUNDERINGHERD!

 :|