Topic: Dale, I shouldn't have to go this route

[_sturt_]

Obviously, you've been online this morning by evidence of your posts here.

So, the natural conclusion is you're doing that thing that people do when they consider themselves superior and, thus, unobligated to be responsive.

Of course, you could/can do that where it concerns decisions that are rightfully yours to make as the god of this board. I've said as much over and over.

You *cannot* do that where it concerns your activities where there are laws that govern internet commerce and privacy.

Be responsible and don't let this go any farther than it needs to go. I'm offering you an invitation to amiably resolve this thing, but it needs to be resolved now, not later. I won't be jerked around any more than I've already been by you.

[W0lfman]

Explain to me and this board your complaint?  No matter how big or small it may be put it out once and for all.

[_sturt_]

Really? Inbox at admin@herdfans.com isn't yours?

[_sturt_]

https://content.screencast.com/users/StuGregory/folders/Jing/media/b5aa5680-cc68-4e1d-b17a-a774341fd604/2018-06-16_1430.png

[W0lfman]

Please explain the complaint.  You can share whatever your concern is with me, PayPal, this forum or any other issue freely.  So to be totally transparent I'm asking you to please explain your complaint. 

[_sturt_]

Dale, I'm not repeating myself. You have the e-mails. It's in your hands to explain yourself, or not. If not, that will be disappointing, because I've tried to ask nicely and because I will have to take the next step.

[W0lfman]

stop wasting my time.  you have an issue with me then put it out there.  make your accusatory claims towards me and we'll go from there.

[_sturt_]

You have the e-mails. I've said what I've said. I take it that you're saying you're not going to respond.

I gave you a very honest and civil chance.

I won't be jerked around any further, and there is accountability for this kind of thing.

[_sturt_]

Done here. You forced me to go to this route to engage you. Mission accomplished. You've been served notice, and it's completely up to you how you want to proceed. I remain open to resolving it amiably, but that time window isn't going to stay open very long for very pragmatic reasons.

[W0lfman]

You have the e-mails. I've said what I've said. I take it that you're saying you're not going to respond.

I gave you a very honest and civil chance.

I won't be jerked around any further, and there is accountability for this kind of thing.

yes, i have your emails.  i suggestion your level your complaint publicly.  i have nothing to hide concerning you nor will i be jerked around with your harassing behavior.  I'm accountable for all aspects related to this web site.  Me and me alone.  Now for the last time please explain (publicly) my illegal behavior or complaint that you're referencing in your email.

[W0lfman]

sturt, stop emailing me please.  you've opened a thread by saying you shouldnt have to go this route... I say this is the only way I'm going to communicate with you.  you've lob some pretty ludicrous accusations towards me privately and they need to be made public by you, otherwise please stop the harassment.   

[_sturt_]

*sigh*

This did not need to happen. At. All.

And whiny-5%ers, don't even start.

You'd be concerned, too, if you woke up one morning to discover that someone... ie, who self-evidently had the venom for you that Dale has displayed for me in recent months... appeared to have some unwelcome access to your bank account.

[W0lfman]

You may have woke to something that may have "appeared" that way to you, but the fact and the truth is I have absolutely no control of anything related to your financial information provided to PayPal. My control ends at issuing a refund, sending a notification a refund has been issued and cancelling an account.  But you start this thread with an intent to slander me as someone dishonest to the members of this forum by using this comment... "You *cannot* do that where it concerns your activities where there are laws that govern internet commerce and privacy" knowing full well PayPal does not provided any financial information from buyers to sellers or sellers to buyers.  You know damn well I dont have financial information for anyone on this forum, but that wasn't your true intentions.  Your intent was just to "wordsmith" your way in to painting me as someone that may be dishonest or up to something with users financial data and you know it.  The reason I use PayPal and not a Herd Fans merchant account is protect myself from people like you. 

May be a benefit to you in reading this...
https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/paypal-safety-and-security

[_sturt_]

Two things.

1. Damn  you've become over the top presumptuous.

I use PayPal for this, for contributions to one other site that have been ongoing forever, and once many years ago for Ebay, which I just today struck from that account.

So, when today I found that you'd received $ from me without me actually having requested it ANNNNNNNNNNNNNND with you SUPPOSEDLY having cancelled the account...

What the hell else would have been the natural inclination but that there was some way that the cancellation you said you'd made didn't happen?

2. And that, in fact, is what happened. You didn't cancel it.

3. ANNNNNNNNND... again, thank goodness  you discovered that on one of your higher integrity days.

People who make up the rules as they go along in order to suit their own purposes? THOSE are the people who, on a lower integrity day, might say, "hehe.... what the hell.... let's see if he ever says anything... he deserves whatever I decide he deserves."

Having said that, I have never perceived you as having a lot of low integrity days.

But this newest thing? Where you totally make up rules to suit your whiniest friends? And make a blatant hypocrite of yourself by doing to me a second time what you once apologized for doing?

I can't be sure who you are or how you are these days.

4. ANNNNNNNNND.... again, and bottom line.... THIS ALLLLLLLLLLLL could have been remedied with a simple, short, civil email response.

"Sturt, I think if you go into your PayPal, you'll see that I've NOW cancelled it... sorry for my oversight."]

Such BS.

It's a form of pouting on your part, it really is, that you want to control how people communicate with you when they need your explanation.

 

[_sturt_]

And oh by the way.

Point me to even ONE thing that would EVER lead you to think you have to "protect yourself" from a peon like me?

One.

Slander?

I at least post a thread having had the integrity to attempt to discuss this concern I had by PRIVATE E-MAIL.

But this is what you've become, evidently.

So, slander away, Dale. I evidently ran over your dog at some point. I can't make any sense of you.

[parshall2marshall]

IMHO, the cost amounts to a pittance to get the information from knowledged posters on the HF Main Board and especially Herd Insider.

Dale isn't out to rip anyone off, and I feel certain that it's not worth his time to attempt to do so.

About 13 or 14 years ago I was feeling the post-911 economic crunch, My HerdNation insider board subscription auto-renewed on me and I tried to explain to the webmaster could I get a refund because of my financial situation. But it was refused. How did that work out for them ? Well as one might guess they have gotten $0 from me in the years since.

This is the best Herd Board of the Big Three by a considerable margin.

Sturt was given opportunity after opportunity to keep his posts about the subject matter at hand. But all too often the subject became twisted around to be about him, and leading to far too many convoluted posts about his perception of the world. When Sturt was, shall I say, "on his meds" he contributed  a number of insightful and intelligent posts. But it all just got too heavy, leading to the ban. Evidence above indicates he is unable to change his ways. The Board, IMHO, is better off without such distractions.

[_sturt_]

p2m:

1. You charge me with taking threads in directions apart from their topic... let's count how many of those words you just posted were actually about what this thread is supposed to be about.

2. This hijack thing is a myth that was perpetuated most intensely by Apollo, and which others who openly voiced dislike for me such as yourself, picked up on.

The last thread I was involved with was exactly that... a thread about the OC hiring process, in which my posts were (sarcasm on) so far flung as to challenge a poster who alleged he could analyze and come to good conclusions merely by reading the resume.

So, yeah.... I don't know what to do with you guys. Not everyone. But a lot.

And, no, I don't expect my friends here (and make no mistake I do have a few) to come to my rescue here. Never have. It would be like watching the local property tax assessor put me to the screws... people sometimes have something to lose, and sometimes there is no reward to compare to the risk.

[forphase1]

Let me get this straight....it's YOUR Paypal account, right?  Therefore it's YOUR responsibility, and not Dale's, for you to cancel subscriptions.  I went to Paypal a second ago and it took me like 60 seconds to see where I'm paying him every year and there is a nice and easy 'cancel' button sitting right there if I chose to do so.  Sounds to me like you are blaming Dale when it was your own laziness and ignorance that caused the issue.  As you yourself noted in one of your rants in this thread, Dale DID refund you money in the past...he's a better man than I.  Considering you got your self banned for your behavior, I wouldn't have given a dime of your money back as you'd forfeited it due to your own actions getting you banned.  You should be grateful and simply move on with your life. 

Once upon a time we had lunch in Lexington (12-14 years ago or so) and I thought you a decent person, if a bit different.  :-)  And up until a few years ago I felt you brought more positives to the board than negatives.  But over the past few years you've changed, and I'd dread seeing your threads and posts in other threads as it almost always was a war and peace novel, completely off topic, or centered around yourself in some capacity.  This site has been much more pleasant and peaceful since you've been gone.  You are a passionate Herd fan, and I can appreciate that.  But too many bridges have been burned here, and it's time to walk away.  Best of luck to you.

[_sturt_]

Old friend... I have no axes to grind with you.

I don't recall thinking you were odd.

If I recall correctly, I was in the midst of pursuing a major federal grant that would bring 7 figures to the Lexington area for a community initiative, and you were someone I found who seemed to offer some contacts with a church. Is that right? At the same time, another poster here along with myself were attempting to get the Bluegrass Big Green off the ground as well. But for whatever reason, I don't recall anything moving forward on either of those two fronts. I think you legitimately may have been too busy.

To the point of this thread, you presume too much, and forgive the observation, but you appear to read right over top of what's been laid out for you, hellbent on getting to a conclusion that defends someone for whom you feel some self-evident friendship.

1. When someone tells me in January that they've cancelled your subscription, forgive me, but I take them at face value and don't question them. Heck, in June, it doesn't even enter my mind that they didn't do what they said.

But obviously, you're right... I should not have taken him at face value, but should have verified.

Lazy? Not really. Ignorant? Well, yes, to the degree that I don't mess with PayPal except every few years.

Naive would have been your better more accurate adjective, I believe. I didn't know what the hell was going on. It made no sense.

Then I went off like a fool and actually had the unmitigated gall to ask "What's going on here?"... and worse, thinking I was doing the right thing to ask privately.

Baaaaaaaad sturt.

You would have been smarter than I in all those things. And I'm okay with that. I'll learn from this and try to do better.

2. To be fair, I didn't ask for a dime back in January, by the way.

But yes, let's all applaud Dale for doing the right thing... that is... to be fair... that, after he did the wrong thing, again, by adjusting rules on-the-fly to accommodate the whiny 5%... conveniently overlooking explicit occasions of their breaking published rules, while conveniently convicting me of rules that... to this day... have never been published. And, of course, not just the breaking of rules, but the deity of this board who wrote his penalties on his tablets of stone gives himself... conveniently... total latitude to penalize without regard to those tablets.

But, no doubt about it, doubly wrong to have kept money for services not actually rendered. That much was right. And I'm saddened that you feel you couldn't be as good of a man as that. Not an especially high standard, imho, but maybe that's just me.

3. One simple sentence:

"Sturt, the explanation is I didn't mean to mislead you, but discovered today that I didn't cancel the account after all."

... had that been said earlier today in response to the initial private e-mail exchange, this thread doesn't even exist.

I mean, really, who of us, if we're asked a question in an e-mail, consider ourselves too superior to reply? Anyone? Who of us actually ignore people until they bring their question to us through the medium that we demand?

I can't win, though.

You know that had I brought it up here, publicly, without having attempted to resolve it privately (as, btw, Dale's rules... AND his apology post... suggest is always a best first-action), I would have been taken to task with that.

I'm sorry that so many here don't appear to have the balls to call Dale on that point. At least that one point. At least. That's just jerking someone around for the sheer pleasure of jerking them around.

Now then. Let the record show that you, too, bring a little extra peripheral attack... which, again, for you is just going to be labeled "normal," and watch... for me?... you or p2m or someone like you is going to yell "hijack."

*rolls eyes* As-if. But that's what you do. And your pals just don't even think twice and swallow whole.

My response: For you to say I got myself banned for my behavior is completely ignoring the facts and swallowing whole what you want to believe.

Why not just be a stand-up guy, and just say you don't like me... that you didn't appreciate how routinely I would challenge a poster to reconcile discrepancies between their conclusion(s) and the logic.

But don't give me this hollow, empty, evidence-less echo.

Centered around myself? Just as hollow.

I don't even know what that means, unless you're getting at my congratulating myself on those occasions when everyone else is toting a party line (... and this board has been a group-think board for a long time now, casting disdain for anyone who disagrees with the majority...) and I turned out to be the one guy or one of the few who had the audacity to stand up to question the group think?

Yeah, I suppose it's irritating, particularly when I don't lower myself to the name calling thing but stick to cold hard reason. And it was particularly burning when I was right.

Now, I wasn't always right. But then, that made it even worse, because then, I also happened to be one of the few who could ever admit he'd been wrong.... so, even then, I was a pain to endure. Humility isn't a strength of most of us sports fans, after all.

But is all of that such a dire problem? Is that how we do things in this country... censor... simply eliminate the voice of people we don't like or who disagree with us occasionally or even routinely?

Nope. But it's how things are done on this private board, and so... legitimately, no sarcasm here... the board admin/owner has every right to choose not to do things by such values if he so chooses... and has chosen.

Just get the difference. Because it's a legal right doesn't make it a moral right. And it's not morally right how Dale has acted. Indefensible, actually, at least morally speaking. Spits in the face of even his own supposed values... that every Herd fan should have a voice. But legal? Yes, it's absolutely legal. I don't have a leg to stand on in that vein.

So, hey, it's the weekend, and I had some time to kill, but this is where I sign off. What's done is done. What's said is said. Lesson learned. For reasons exhausted by now, wish this thread never had to happen in the first place. I admit when it's my fault. By Dale's own admission... seemingly boastful admission, in fact... this thread wasn't my fault.

[W0lfman]

1. When someone tells me in January that they've cancelled your subscription, forgive me, but I take them at face value and don't question them. Heck, in June, it doesn't even enter my mind that they didn't do what they said.

i never told you in January I cancelled your membership. What I did do after you were put on water boy status was issue you a refund. I didn’t have to do that considering your membership was already 6 months old, but I did simply cause it was the right thing for me to do. So fast forward to this exchange. I received an email from pay pal that you had purchased another membership, and what I did was immediately issue a second refund. I check the transaction and noticed your subscription was still active. It never crossed my mind that you would leave you subscription account active after my issuing the first refund. My mistake. But what I really don’t appreciate is the email I received from you titled “Pay Pal mischief -- Why did you even have my info in the first place???” including a message to insinuate I had your financial information...which you knew full well I did not. So my refusal to respond lead you here to make another accusation...or at the very least I was doing something shady with your financial information. Which again you knew full well I did not have.

From my perspective it was best for you to move on peacefully, but you’re obviously not capable of doing that. You’ve been emailing me consistently for 6 months without my response in hopes you’d get the hint that I have no desire to discuss you board status any further. You even gone so far as discussing your situation to fellow friends and posters on this forum. There is something seriously concerning in dealing with you which has moved me to privately share with others that people like you scare me. I have no idea what you are capable of and for that reason I insisted you make your complaint public.  There needs to be no further comment from me, but there should be an apology from you for your inaccurate, (bleep) insinuations up and down this thread. There won’t be, tho.

[chris88]

I recently (last month?) got an automatic Paypal charge from this site.  I did not know it was automatic, but like others, I could have easily cancelled the auto feature.  As it is $12 a yr is not a lot to pay to support the site/Insider board.  And yes this is the best site for Herd sports bar none.

For the record I had nothing to do with Stuart being banned.  I did not complain to anyone.  Stuart recollection of the resume thread is absurd and just another example of the word play engaging that lead to countless drawn out threads that are too exhausting to follow.  And if you don't respond you get called out for non response to the convoluted question. This, apparently, has turned into another one of those threads.

No board is perfect but I stand with Dale 100% in this issue and most others governing the board.

[2xBison]

Sturt needs to join the Big Green and STFU.

[The E-Man]

i never told you in January I cancelled your membership. What I did do after you were put on water boy status was issue you a refund. I didn’t have to do that considering your membership was already 6 months old, but I did simply cause it was the right thing for me to do. So fast forward to this exchange. I received an email from pay pal that you had purchased another membership, and what I did was immediately issue a second refund. I check the transaction and noticed your subscription was still active. It never crossed my mind that you would leave you subscription account active after my issuing the first refund. My mistake. But what I really don’t appreciate is the email I received from you titled “Pay Pal mischief -- Why did you even have my info in the first place???” including a message to insinuate I had your financial information...which you knew full well I did not. So my refusal to respond lead you here to make another accusation...or at the very least I was doing something shady with your financial information. Which again you knew full well I did not have.

From my perspective it was best for you to move on peacefully, but you’re obviously not capable of doing that. You’ve been emailing me consistently for 6 months without my response in hopes you’d get the hint that I have no desire to discuss you board status any further. You even gone so far as discussing your situation to fellow friends and posters on this forum. There is something seriously concerning in dealing with you which has moved me to privately share with others (that people like you (scare me). I have no idea what you are capable of) and for that reason I insisted you make your complaint public. There needs to be no further comment from me, but there should be an apology from you for your inaccurate, bull%^&* insinuations up and down this thread. There won’t be, tho.

WOW! just wow! Wolf it seems like _sturt_ is out to lunch and he's not coming home for dinner anytime soon. This cat ain't wrapped to tight that's for damn sure!

[wasbarryb]

There are some seriously troubled people out there and _ _ is one of them.


I understand the desire to be open, but sometimes things need to be ended._ _ hasn't the sense or discipline to walk away from a pointless fight. I honestly think it would be best for the greatest number to end his access to the board and to move on.

[mxman870]

i haven't been around here in a while because of my busy work schedule and travel.  For a cool $12 a year we enjoy and great venue to receive news about our beloved Herd. As I am home relaxing this morning after doing some business on the computer I sign on here and find this. Dale and his reputation are without question highly regarded and beyond reproach. I admit I have missed a lot here the past year or so but from my experiences _      _ does go above and beyond to argue his point. _      _ needs to accept his timeout and quit trying to paint Dale in a bad light. Wolfman you have to support of 99.9% of the board and I appreciate the transparency you have used while discussing this insane claim.