Topic: Time To Face It

[herdinphilly]

We have a %^&* athletics program now, im so sick of watching this %^&* every single year. Football team will never be good again with doc and basketball team has never been good besides one year last year. We are a program that is falling off the cliff. Its the same stuff every single year

The problem is that some people think Marshall is going to be Boise State in football and Gonzaga in basketball. Marshall is a mid-major program with  limited resources. As such they're going to go 8-4 in football playing a crappy CUSA schedule and in basketball win 20+ games but only make the NCAA if they win CUSA tourney. The Randy, Chad and Byron days are almost 20 years gone.

[herdman]

EVERY CUSA team loses that game 8/10 times.  Fact.

Every CUSA team is mediocre or worse. Marshall was a dominant program at its level for nearly a decade or more. This is unacceptable. We are stagnant as a program. We have one championship if I can't remember how many years.

[herdfan2017]

Every CUSA team is mediocre or worse. Marshall was a dominant program at its level for nearly a decade or more. This is unacceptable. We are stagnant as a program. We have one championship if I can't remember how many years.

This is the point im trying to make, it is embarrassing to me how we are even in this conference to start with, much less we cant even win in this piece of %^&* conference

[svherd]

But guys, we played in the crappy MAC back then. They didn’t even give scholarships. No teams were ranked at any time while we were in the MAC. Sarcasm.

The guys who make excuses are a part of the issue. Being comfortable with our current situation leads to complacency and mediocrity. I bet if you asked all CUSA football coaches we would be ranked as the #1 underachievers.

[herdman]

But guys, we played in the crappy MAC back then. They didn’t even give scholarships. No teams were ranked at any time while we were in the MAC. Sarcasm.

The guys who make excuses are a part of the issue. Being comfortable with our current situation leads to complacency and mediocrity. I bet if you asked all CUSA football coaches we would be ranked as the #1 underachievers.

We have more tradition than every other CUSA program. I am guessing Southern Miss has some tradition. MTSU a little along with LA Tech. Some have none or very little. Some were not really that great at FBS.  We have as good or better facilities than every other team. We have a more supportive fan base than probably everybody in this conference. Doc has more resources in terms of facilities than any coach in MU history. He makes more money than any other coach in MU history. He plays easier schedules than Snyder by far in conference and out of conference. The AD gave him numerous contract extensions and lightened the schedules for him.

I am not sure how the table could be set any better for success for Doc. I really don't.



 

[HERDFAN1999]

What I truly don't get are those that accept where we are at.  I just don"t understand it. 

[Greg H]

Where were you in the 90s Greg???
Most wins by any university in Division 1
3 Heisman Finalists
Bilietnikoff Winner
Multiple NFL draft picks - plenty of sons of Marshall to root for on Sundays
Beat Clemson in Death Valley
Beat South Carolina at USC
Beat #2 Kansas State at KSU
Tight game at Georgia
Ohio State needed a last second 55 yard field goal to beat us at the shoe
2 National Championships (albeit I-AA but undefeated seasons)
4 STRAIGHT conference championships
Finished #10 after another undefeated season
19 All Americans - we have not had one in 12 years

That is called being relevant
I understand where we are at this time and great coaches are hard to find and keep. Doc is doing a fine job winning around 8 games per year but this fan base experienced more than fine and it’s shocking to look back those 20 years and realize how much of a joke this season would have been to those teams.

The “most wins” thing is (bleep).  Always was, because that included 1aa.
3 great players.  Moss was PURE luck, the result of where his daddy shot his kid more than anything Bobby did.
Clemson sucked.  We all know it.
South Carolina sucked.  We all know it.
KSU was number 6.  Great win.
We lost at Georgia. 
We lost at OSU.

Nobody is downplaying those years.  But we were absolutely not relevant.  We were never a daily topic on ESPN, or anywhere outside Huntington.  We were NEVER part of the NC conversation.  What we were was the second greatest mid-major ever, behind Boise. 

I’ll grant everyone we have dropped off a lot.  But, Huntington is a MUCH worse place, which has a terrible effect on recruiting.  We do not have the Tv money.  There are many more teams competing to be “the” small school, AND ALL OF THEM have more alumns, far more money, are not in Huntington, are not in WV, etc.

If you have to fire someone, fire Hamrick.  But I’m telling you, firing Doc is very unlikely to yield the results you people want.  Again.  Be careful what you ask for. 

[HaveUherd]

Greg H, you have a pretty narrow definition of relevance. We played Ohio State on ABC in the 3:30 time slot back then. That doesn’t happen to irrelevant programs.

We now play a good part of our games with 5K die hards watching on Facebook.

And we were definitely talked about quite a lot on ESPN and others.

I agree with your point that if we remove Doc it could get worse. If it does, so be it. At least we tried.

[Greg H]

Doc is not the problem.  I know people made fun of Don Nehlen (Doc is exactly like him).  But Nehlen made WVU what it is.  That was done with consistent performances, not with winning a championship every other year.  Doc is that guy.  To win 8-9 a year here, now, if quite good.

Our problems are structural.  It starts with Huntington being a hell hole.  There are many more issues that a coach can’t fix.  There is probably not a single serious athletic program in the US that faces the challenges we face. NO COACH will fix it.  Don’t throw out the baby with the bath water.

[Herdalum83]

The “most wins” thing is bull%^&*.  Always was, because that included 1aa.
3 great players.  Moss was PURE luck, the result of where his daddy shot his kid more than anything Bobby did.
Clemson sucked.  We all know it.
South Carolina sucked.  We all know it.
KSU was number 6.  Great win.
We lost at Georgia. 
We lost at OSU.

Nobody is downplaying those years.  But we were absolutely not relevant.  We were never a daily topic on ESPN, or anywhere outside Huntington.  We were NEVER part of the NC conversation.  What we were was the second greatest mid-major ever, behind Boise. 

I’ll grant everyone we have dropped off a lot.  But, Huntington is a MUCH worse place, which has a terrible effect on recruiting.  We do not have the Tv money.  There are many more teams competing to be “the” small school, AND ALL OF THEM have more alumns, far more money, are not in Huntington, are not in WV, etc.

If you have to fire someone, fire Hamrick.  But I’m telling you, firing Doc is very unlikely to yield the results you people want.  Again.  Be careful what you ask for.

3 great players? Hahaha we put multiple guys in the league in the 90s that played NFL football for 5 or more years. And Clemson didn't suck, they weren't top 25 but they finished 6-5 and had 3 losses to top 25 teams by 3 points, one of which was the eventual national champs and they beat a top 25 team in Virginia. Don't try to rewrite history to make your point.

[Greg H]

3 great players? Hahaha we put multiple guys in the league in the 90s that played NFL football for 5 or more years. And Clemson didn't suck, they weren't top 25 but they finished 6-5 and had 3 losses to top 25 teams by 3 points, one of which was the eventual national champs and they beat a top 25 team in Virginia. Don't try to rewrite history to make your point.

How many of those great players were paid to play?  A %^&* load of them.  Any whiff of Doc and Hamrick cheating?  Nope.  Our players actually graduate too.

[Herdalum83]

How many of those great players were paid to play?  A %^&* load of them.  Any whiff of Doc and Hamrick cheating?  Nope.  Our players actually graduate too.

Do they? Because the list of guys who are kicked off the team or leave the team with eligibility left is pretty damn long under Doc. And I'm not talking about #3 guys on the depth chart, these are guys who were seeing the field and making significant contributions.

[GreenWhite]

What i am seeing in basketball is not good. If one kid made that much difference(peneva) then we are in major trouble. We look like we did at the beginning of dannys first and second years.

I think there has been  too much worrying about fancy dunking (Kinsey) and the pro level (Elmore and Burks) and not enough working on the fundamentals. I do realize we have a bunch of new players and some that have been on the bench but did not play a bunch but that should not lead to the debacle that was Ohio and the beatdown that was Maryland. Wednesday will be another beatdown if we come out like we did yesterday.

[GreenWhite]

It’s really not surprising that losing one of the best shot blockers in the country hurt this team. We have no identity inside with no rim protector. If Jannson goes for the block, no one else can get the rebound. If he waits back, the shot is mostly uncontested. The opposing teams best play is to get a shot up and play volleyball until it goes in the hoop. We were out rebounded by 20 and gave up 15 offensive rebounds. It will take some time to find out who will step up to fill that void. Until then, we have to shoot our way to a win (not shooting well right now). Hopefully Danny sees something he can work with...

Nobody wants to get in there and fight for the ball on the defensive end. On the offensive end, all our players camp outside the three point line. Hard to get rebounds on the offensive end when nobody is in the paint. I've said it before, we need players with the mentality of Terrell Baines and Dennis Tinnon. Those two guys, while not tall, scrapped for the rebounds and would not let anyone take the ball away from them without a fight.

[GoHERDPT]

The “most wins” thing is bull%^&*.  Always was, because that included 1aa.
3 great players.  Moss was PURE luck, the result of where his daddy shot his kid more than anything Bobby did.
Clemson sucked.  We all know it.
South Carolina sucked.  We all know it.
KSU was number 6.  Great win.
We lost at Georgia. 
We lost at OSU.

Nobody is downplaying those years.  But we were absolutely not relevant.  We were never a daily topic on ESPN, or anywhere outside Huntington.  We were NEVER part of the NC conversation.  What we were was the second greatest mid-major ever, behind Boise. 

I’ll grant everyone we have dropped off a lot.  But, Huntington is a MUCH worse place, which has a terrible effect on recruiting.  We do not have the Tv money.  There are many more teams competing to be “the” small school, AND ALL OF THEM have more alumns, far more money, are not in Huntington, are not in WV, etc.

If you have to fire someone, fire Hamrick.  But I’m telling you, firing Doc is very unlikely to yield the results you people want.  Again.  Be careful what you ask for.

The point is that this fan base was accustomed to winning or at worst being competitive in the game played each week. We can argue the value of wins or tight games played all day long (e.g. Virginia Tech is presently awful; by your definition of Clemson and South Carolina when we beat them. In no way should we have been waxed by them yesterday and it would not have happened in the 1990s.)
I don’t think any rational fan believes we should be in a national championship conversation yearly. The frustration comes when we watch teams pass us by and leave us in the dust. It is documented that Boise state modeled their success after our program - and Idaho is not some massive recruiting hotbed. We owned UCF for a decade and watched their zero win season with laughter. These schools have better resources than us but I think you can see the point.
All this does not fall on Doc but he is the one responsible to prevent that pathetic showing yesterday, make in game adjustments (or find someone who can), and win more than 1 conference championship in 10 years against evenly matched institutions.

[muherd]

It's just the way it is, it's normal now... Let's say we were UCF could you imagine that sh$t bottom line we don't matter anyways.

[Herdmeister]

we need players with the mentality of Terrell Baines and Dennis Tinnon. Those two guys, while not tall, scrapped for the rebounds and would not let anyone take the ball away from them without a fight.

You will love Dajour Rucker

[GreenWhite]

You will love Dajour Rucker

I will have to wait and see on that.

[Herdmeister]

I will have to wait and see on that.

Watch his video. You will love him. He was his division State of Va player of the year as a sophomore. Think Ryan Taylor except bigger and doesn't take plays off like Ryan did.

[MicDrass1]

Doc is not the problem.  I know people made fun of Don Nehlen (Doc is exactly like him).  But Nehlen made WVU what it is.  That was done with consistent performances, not with winning a championship every other year.  Doc is that guy.  To win 8-9 a year here, now, if quite good.

Our problems are structural.  It starts with Huntington being a hell hole.  There are many more issues that a coach can’t fix.  There is probably not a single serious athletic program in the US that faces the challenges we face. NO COACH will fix it.  Don’t throw out the baby with the bath water.

Doc is not Don.  I love the Glory Days!  The best!!  The only P5s that would schedule us were Top 10 teams after we really started cooking.  The mid level P5 like Nc State and Pitt wanted zero part.  Knew
Ass whippen coming.  Damn I heard a crappy VT blew my Herd out.  Recruiting must be down for us.

[MicDrass1]

Bring on Leftwich!