Author Topic: compare scoring records.....  (Read 716 times)

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Offline Herd-nficent

compare scoring records.....
« on: March 20, 2019, 10:01:00 AM »
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  • This question is not designed to take anything away from Skip or John but I would like to know how many games did it take for each to set their scoring record???
    "What we see depends on what we look for"

     

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    compare scoring records.....
    « on: March 20, 2019, 10:01:00 AM »

    Online herdfan48

    Re: compare scoring records.....
    « Reply #1 on: March 20, 2019, 10:04:16 AM »
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  • This question is not designed to take anything away from Skip or John but I would like to know how many games did it take for each to set their scoring record???
    Well the 3 point shot wasn’t in effect until 1986 so that Skip didn’t have their his first to years at MU.


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    Offline Herdmeister

    Re: compare scoring records.....
    « Reply #2 on: March 20, 2019, 10:11:23 AM »
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  • Jon did play more games BUT, Skip wasn't playing with the 5th all time leading scorer on his team for 4 years either. It goes both ways, for sure.
    Today, I consider myself, the luckiest man on the face of the earth..
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    Online herdfan48

    Re: compare scoring records.....
    « Reply #3 on: March 20, 2019, 10:12:17 AM »
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  • Jon did play more games BUT, Skip wasn't playing with the 5th all time leading scorer on his team for 4 years either. It goes both ways, for sure.
    Jon lost a semester when he transferred to.


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    Offline Herdmeister

    Re: compare scoring records.....
    « Reply #4 on: March 20, 2019, 10:16:33 AM »
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  • Jon lost a semester when he transferred to.


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    He did lose those 10 games. Even with that, with 31 game regular season schedules we have now he played in more games than Skip.
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    Offline Luke80

    Re: compare scoring records.....
    « Reply #5 on: March 20, 2019, 10:51:51 AM »
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  • Well the 3 point shot wasn’t in effect until 1986 so that Skip didn’t have their his first to years at MU.


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    Skip did not have the 3 point shot until his JR year and he shot over 40% from 3 for the 2 years he had it - so I would have expected his point totals to have got a significant bump if he would have had the 3 pointer all 4 years.   
     
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    Online herdfan48

    Re: compare scoring records.....
    « Reply #6 on: March 20, 2019, 10:54:35 AM »
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  • This is why it’s so hard to compare eras. Skip didn’t have the 3 point line until his Jr year. More games are played today, and I can’t remember who held the record before Skip, but most likely he only played for 3 years since Freshmen weren’t eligible to play varsity ball until 1971.


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    Offline marshallmark

    Re: compare scoring records.....
    « Reply #7 on: March 20, 2019, 11:04:03 AM »
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  • This is why it’s so hard to compare eras. Skip didn’t have the 3 point line until his Jr year. More games are played today, and I can’t remember who held the record before Skip, but most likely he only played for 3 years since Freshmen weren’t eligible to play varsity ball until 1971.


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    Offline Buffalo Bop

    Re: compare scoring records.....
    « Reply #8 on: March 20, 2019, 11:58:07 AM »
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  • Skip was also the top scorer in Southern Conference history, until a certain player from Davidson broke it in three seasons.
     

    Offline ThunderValley

    Re: compare scoring records.....
    « Reply #9 on: March 20, 2019, 12:18:39 PM »
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  • Does it really matter?????????
    A record is a record, who cares how many games or how many shots they took!!
     
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    Offline HaveUherd

    Re: compare scoring records.....
    « Reply #10 on: March 20, 2019, 01:06:16 PM »
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  • Does it really matter?????????
    A record is a record, who cares how many games or how many shots they took!!

    He got the record, true. But it doesn’t mean he’s the goat. Just because Rose compiled the most hits doesn’t mean he’s the best baseball player either.
     

    Offline Herdmeister

    Re: compare scoring records.....
    « Reply #11 on: March 20, 2019, 01:55:07 PM »
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  • This is why it’s so hard to compare eras. Skip didn’t have the 3 point line until his Jr year. More games are played today, and I can’t remember who held the record before Skip, but most likely he only played for 3 years since Freshmen weren’t eligible to play varsity ball until 1971.


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    Walt Walowac with 1982 points held the record from 1954 until Skip broke it in 1988.
    Today, I consider myself, the luckiest man on the face of the earth..
                   ----Lou Gehrig

     
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    Re: compare scoring records.....
    « Reply #11 on: March 20, 2019, 01:55:07 PM »

    Offline Herd2believe

    Re: compare scoring records.....
    « Reply #12 on: March 20, 2019, 02:18:40 PM »
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  • He got the record, true. But it doesn’t mean he’s the goat. Just because Rose compiled the most hits doesn’t mean he’s the best baseball player either.

    Posted this on another site:
    I have closely followed MUBB since the Lee/M D’antoni/Noll team. IMO Elmore is the best I’ve seen. I never saw Hal Grear in college, only NBA and at end of his career. So I did some research and was surprised to find out that while at MU, Grear never led the team in scoring. He did play with some great players and did lead the team in rebounding twice. He was all MAC once. So obviously his legend is primarily based on his NBA career. As far as Henderson and Taft, I like to point out that Elmore played Pg and they were shooting guards. Part of Elmore’s job was to create scoring opportunities for his teammates. Something he is very good at. If you add Henderson and Taft’s assists together, you don’t get Elmore’s. It was like he was not only Henderson but Battle also; Taft plus Andy Paul Williamson.To me it shows that he could have even scored more if that was his role. FWIW I think Russell Lee is second to Elmore of the ones I’ve seen. The most important factor to me is that I feel Elmore led us to the greatest accomplishment in MUBB history. I will never, ever forget the CUSA championship and NCAA win in San Diego. Because he was at his best when the moment was biggest, IMO Elmore=GOAT. We don’t know what his NBA will be, but I would not bet against him.
     

    Offline CoachSkip

    Re: compare scoring records.....
    « Reply #13 on: March 20, 2019, 02:49:17 PM »
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  • IMO , they are to many years apart  . Skip didnt have the three pount line his whole career , Jon did . Jon didnt get to play his whole Freshman year , Skip did. Skip was a shooting guard , Jon a point guard.  If Skip would have played in DDs system , he would have had more points and Jon probably never would have caught him.
    They are both great players and MU fans are lucky to have seen them both play . The GOAT is just something for the fans to talk about.
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    Offline coalherd

    Re: compare scoring records.....
    « Reply #14 on: March 20, 2019, 02:50:42 PM »
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  • Posted this on another site:
    I have closely followed MUBB since the Lee/M D’antoni/Noll team. IMO Elmore is the best I’ve seen. I never saw Hal Grear in college, only NBA and at end of his career. So I did some research and was surprised to find out that while at MU, Grear never led the team in scoring. He did play with some great players and did lead the team in rebounding twice. He was all MAC once. So obviously his legend is primarily based on his NBA career. As far as Henderson and Taft, I like to point out that Elmore played Pg and they were shooting guards. Part of Elmore’s job was to create scoring opportunities for his teammates. Something he is very good at. If you add Henderson and Taft’s assists together, you don’t get Elmore’s. It was like he was not only Henderson but Battle also; Taft plus Andy Paul Williamson.To me it shows that he could have even scored more if that was his role. FWIW I think Russell Lee is second to Elmore of the ones I’ve seen. The most important factor to me is that I feel Elmore led us to the greatest accomplishment in MUBB history. I will never, ever forget the CUSA championship and NCAA win in San Diego. Because he was at his best when the moment was biggest, IMO Elmore=GOAT. We don’t know what his NBA will be, but I would not bet against him.

    I believe that Greer for at least one year, maybe more, played with Leo Byrd.  In the pre 3  point era, Byrd averaged 29 ppg  one season, still a MU record, IIRC.  Was 2nd leading scorer in the nation; believe Oscar Robertson of Cincy was first.  That didn't allow for that much scoring for Hal.  But in any case it doesn't detract one bit from what Greer accomplished and for what Elmore is continuing to accomplish for a few more (hopefully) games!!!!
     

    Offline gochneaur645

    Re: compare scoring records.....
    « Reply #15 on: March 20, 2019, 02:55:58 PM »
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  • Skip: 125 games, 20.6 PPG
    Jon: 130 games, 19.8 PPG

    Based on his three point rate over the last two years of his career, one can assume Skip would have made close to exactly 100 more threes in his first two years. That would bump him up 100 points and to about 21.4 PPG.
     
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    Offline Buffalo Bop

    Re: compare scoring records.....
    « Reply #16 on: March 20, 2019, 02:59:03 PM »
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  • Something else to remember Jon is the ONLY player in division one history to score more than 2,500 points and over 750 assists!
     
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    Offline Always THE HERD

    Re: compare scoring records.....
    « Reply #17 on: March 20, 2019, 03:21:25 PM »
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  • Posted this on another site:
    I have closely followed MUBB since the Lee/M D’antoni/Noll team. IMO Elmore is the best I’ve seen. I never saw Hal Grear in college, only NBA and at end of his career. So I did some research and was surprised to find out that while at MU, Grear never led the team in scoring. He did play with some great players and did lead the team in rebounding twice. He was all MAC once. So obviously his legend is primarily based on his NBA career. As far as Henderson and Taft, I like to point out that Elmore played Pg and they were shooting guards. Part of Elmore’s job was to create scoring opportunities for his teammates. Something he is very good at. If you add Henderson and Taft’s assists together, you don’t get Elmore’s. It was like he was not only Henderson but Battle also; Taft plus Andy Paul Williamson.To me it shows that he could have even scored more if that was his role. FWIW I think Russell Lee is second to Elmore of the ones I’ve seen. The most important factor to me is that I feel Elmore led us to the greatest accomplishment in MUBB history. I will never, ever forget the CUSA championship and NCAA win in San Diego. Because he was at his best when the moment was biggest, IMO Elmore=GOAT. We don’t know what his NBA will be, but I would not bet against him.
    Mike D'Antoni was a VERY good player at MU. He was one of the most unselfish players we have had (who became great). He also had different coaches during his college career.
     
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    Offline yogiherd

    Re: compare scoring records.....
    « Reply #18 on: March 20, 2019, 03:39:35 PM »
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  • Skip did not have the 3 point shot until his JR year and he shot over 40% from 3 for the 2 years he had it - so I would have expected his point totals to have got a significant bump if he would have had the 3 pointer all 4 years.

    Luke i think Skip had the three point line for conference games his whole career but not for OC games. Have kind of a fuzzy memory but something about a four point lead against UTC in Asheville,NC during tourney and a four point play(three pointer good and foul)  at end of game during Huck's first or second year as coach of Herd.
    Plus:

    "
    Quote from: goherd73 on March 16, 2019, 07:22:18 PM

        Not so sure about that. Southern Conference started using 3 point line in 1980. First Conference to do that.


    From Wikipedia's history of the three point field goal.

    "The NCAA's Southern Conference became the first collegiate conference to use the three-point rule, adopting a 22-foot (6.71 m) line for the 1980–81 season.[17][18] Ronnie Carr of Western Carolina was the first to score a three-point field goal in college basketball history on November 29, 1980.[18][19][20] Over the following five years, NCAA conferences differed in their use of the rule and distance required for a three-pointer. The line was as close as 17 ft 9 in (5.41 m) in the Atlantic Coast Conference (ACC), and as far away as 22 ft (6.71 m) in the Big Sky.[21][22][23][24]

    Used only in conference play for several years, it was adopted by the NCAA in April 1986 for the 1986–87 season at 19 ft 9 in (6.02 m)[25][26][27][28] and was first used in the NCAA Tournament in March 1987.[29] The NCAA adopted the three-pointer in women's basketball on an experimental basis for that season at the same distance, and made its use mandatory beginning in 1987–88.[30] In 2007, the NCAA lengthened the men's distance by a foot to 20 ft 9 in (6.32 m), effective with the 2008–09 season"'
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    Offline herdinphilly

    Re: compare scoring records.....
    « Reply #19 on: March 20, 2019, 09:47:48 PM »
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  • All I know is that Marshall has ONE NCAA Tournament win and it wasn't by a Skip Henderson team. 
     

    Offline TenThunder

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    Re: compare scoring records.....
    « Reply #20 on: March 20, 2019, 11:44:04 PM »
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  • Congrats to JE.  He is one of our best. Going back as far as DDs "iron 5" I would have to say Russell Lee is is the best I've seen , not even close.

     
     
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    Offline Herd-nficent

    Re: compare scoring records.....
    « Reply #21 on: March 21, 2019, 08:49:41 AM »
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  • Russell Lee was so smooth and he could and did at times play every position on the floor.  A great shooter and passer, kept the ball moving not dribble, dribble, dribble like some do.
    "What we see depends on what we look for"

     
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    Re: compare scoring records.....
    « Reply #21 on: March 21, 2019, 08:49:41 AM »

    Offline herdfan129

    Re: compare scoring records.....
    « Reply #22 on: March 21, 2019, 08:50:32 AM »
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  • No comparison.

    Skip > Elmore
    The right way is always the right way- Coach Huff

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    Re: compare scoring records.....
    « Reply #22 on: March 21, 2019, 08:50:32 AM »