Topic: Alex Locklear to Utah

[MUinDE]

What podium? I also don’t have social media. This is the closest thing to that, and I just recently started this. I have law school (University of Kentucky) on my plate, I have a full time job. I’m speaking out now because it has caused one of my closest friends to leave, in an unacceptable fashion. Not to mention, my lack of speaking out earlier was to avoid being a distraction, and not dividing people, hoping they’d eventually sort things out. I’ve seen bad cultures turn to good cultures, very strong cultures. I’ve seen bad turn to worse than before. I’m not paid or consulting in the administration of a single Marshall faction. There are adult men and women that get paid some pretty good money to do their job. They’ve been entrusted with duties, we expect them to carry out effectively. I could, and can, only hope that players or certain coaches would change it again to what it should be. As a result, certain players are reprimanded and undermined for anything that opposes the root of the problem. My responses were merely prompted by this being enough for me, and me finally losing faith in the administration. Before this it wavered, but because of my affinity for them and the trust I once had in them, it has gotten to this point.

Best of luck in law school! There’s been several former players go to law school over the years, but I don’t know of any that actually played as much or that were starters like you. Big accomplishment and congrats to you! I’m a lawyer now myself and almost went to UK law. Good school. Funny story, I also actually applied to WVU and was accepted, but knew that if that was the only law school I was accepted to that I wouldn’t go because law wasn’t for me. Could never go there. I still chuckle about my decision to apply to WVU (since I knew I’d never go there and was basically wasting my money on the app fee) after over 20 years.

[Scottyo614]

I read the comments and have been impressed with the way things are communicated in this thread. But like one or two other posters would like to continue the dialogue with more specifics if available.

A good bit of this dialogue is very different than what Lee Smith said on HerdZone...

https://herdzone.com/news/2019/5/1/big-green-scholarship-foundation-mcgill-raiders-smith-finds-his-way-credits-special-people-of-marshall.aspx

There’s two different time frames involved but seems a guy who had issues but overcame them with support and help from coaches.

Highly recommend liking the link and reading how Lee Smith sees the progress.

I know of 3-4 starting players from that team who hated their time with Doc. Not always Doc but the assistants. Of course Herdzone is going to only push good will pieces.

[cubsrams1]

Clint: Can you explain what you mean about playing on the line in 2016 being a suicide mission?  Scheme? People not knowing plays?  Just curious the details about that. 

[goherd24]

WHF at some point in life, you're going to have to realize that Doc is not a good coach or leader. I am glad to hear this info because it just confirms my thoughts on this staff. How many players are better but don't get to play? Butler/grooms, sapp, gant, initially Cato, vw Graham, Devon Johnson, the list goes on. And so many more that we don't ever get to see. Doc is bad for Marshall. Period. He needs to go, so we can move forward to better things. Ideally, somekne who can win a title in a very, very, weak conference.

[herdfan129]

Vanhorn just went from a player I really liked to one of my favorite players of all time.

I have been saying the same thing from the limited film we as fans have access to. Big difference in actual game film with tight view compared to TV.  Big difference in us fans watching film and someone like Vanhorn watching the film and knowing the responsibilities of each player. I agree that losing Locklear is a big loss, but I don't blame him for leaving at all.

I'm sure most of us can only imagine how hard it was for Vanhorn to speak out like this. Nothing but respect for you sir. Thanks for all the sacrifices you made for our University and football program.

Best of luck in law school, and please don't be a stranger to these boards.

[whf]

Gave you a thanks and did not mean to. WHF, when will you ever crawl out of Duc’s shorts and take a breath? Your head is so buried in there that you can’t see what is going on in the program. Some of us have been saying this for years now. We didn’t know the specifics, but anyone who’s ever been associated with the program at an intimate level could identify the symptoms of a program deteriorating from within. Duc and Hamwreck both need to go. And go now!

Now we're on to Doc and your apparent belief that I'm blindly in his pocket.  The story was about Legg and Mirabal, and then implications about Cramsey and Adkins.  When will you be fair and balanced about the leaders of the program and their contribution to MU?

[whf]

Something certainly changed...


https://herdzone.com/news/2016/11/24/MCGILL_Van_Horn_s_Marshall_Experience_Filled_With_Love.aspx

Thought it would be nice to see opinions have apparently changes as time has passed.


I understand that Sarah Legg and Clint have gone separate ways since this article.  Three years is a long time and much changes. 

[JudgeDD]

I posted this a few days ago on another site.  I haven't been very active here, but this topic has drawn me in. 

I've made it clear how I felt about Alex Mirabal. He was an excellent coach and a good person, and I'm glad my son had the opportunity to play for him. However, I was not in agreement with every decision he made. It's my opinion that two players didn't get fair deals while at Marshall: Alex Locklear and Nate Devers. It's not that I think either one of these players were leaps and bounds better than those ahead of them. Actually, I'm not even saying that they were better at all. But I was not comfortable with how they lost their positions in the depth chart.

During camp before the 2017 season, Lock had won one of the OT positions. Ulmer was second team behind him. It was only a week or so before the season when Lock was late (4-5 min) for a meeting. Mirabal demoted him on the spot. For the record, I don't have an issue with a coach being strict with his rules, and perhaps a loss of position was appropriate. The problem I have is that the switch was absolute. Ulmer got every first-team rep from that point on, and started and played every game from beginning to end. Was Ulmer a better OL than Locklear by the end of that year? Yes, and it would be surprising if he wasn't, given the enormous advantage he was awarded. This is not in any way meant to talk down about Ulmer. He did what he was supposed to and worked hard.

Nate Deavers and Jordan Dowrey were set to rotate each series in their first game as redshirt freshmen. Nate got the start (one of only two games Jordan didn't start in his career at Marshall). But Deavers had a few bad plays, got beat a few times with his pass-blocking. Jordan had a better game. Jordan played 2-1 on series in the second half, and won the starting position for the next game. Fair so far, perhaps. But then Mirabal switched Deavers to second-team center, behind Selby, and moved Cody Collins from backup C to backup OG. Nate Deavers went from starting and rotating with a fellow redshirt freshman, to backing up a JR OL who was never coming out of the game. That season, Jordan ruptured several discs in his lower back and eventually had to switch every-other series with Collins just to make it through games. That could have been - I say, should have been - Nate Deavers. The rest, for Nate, was just poor luck: a criminal charge (that was later dismissed) that forced him to miss much of his junior season, and a knee injury that took him out of his senior year. Yes, Jordan became better OL than Nate. But again, that was a result of first-team reps and playing time. Nate's complete demotion never made sense. Like Locklear, it seemed too extreme and nonredeemable.

And no, I think PFF is a bit of a joke, especially for OL, where those grading don't know the reads, checks, or assignments. Ask any college coach what they think about the evaluation PFF gives their athletes. Ask the Marshall coaches. I doubt you can find many who would give them a passing grade.

I'm not saying either of these young men would have held onto starting positions throughout their careers. But I was never comfortable with how they lost their opportunities. And I totally understand why Alex Locklear may want to test his skills with a fresh start somewhere else.

Best of luck, Alex.

I, too, noticed a change in the atmosphere and culture in 2016.  I have theories as to why but I'm sure Clint would know better than me.  Clint Van Horn was a great player for Marshall, but an even better person.  He is a leader by example, brimming with sincerity and integrity.  I'm not sure I see everything the way he does, but I would never pretend to know more than him about what went down behind the scenes, and I would never argue with his unique POV.

I still feel a strong connection to Alex Mirabal.  He impressed me so in those first few years.  I don't know exactly what caused the shift, but as Clint lays out, there was a definite change going into the 2016 season.  Nothing was ever the same after that.  He lost trust in his leaders (Clint, Selby, Sweede, Dowrey).  It was tough to watch, and even tougher to explain. 

[MUinDE]

Now we're on to Doc and your apparent belief that I'm blindly in his pocket.  The story was about Legg and Mirabal, and then implications about Cramsey and Adkins.  When will you be fair and balanced about the leaders of the program and their contribution to MU?

What is the one constant in football mediocrity over the last 9 years? The buck stops with Duc. Fair and balanced? Ha! I was in Duc’s camp until it became apparent to anyone willing to acknowledge that there was a problem. Let me turn your own question of being fair and balanced on you: what would it take for you to acknowledge that there’s a major problem and Duc must go?

[2xBison]

Doc said last night that next year maybe his best offensive line ever.

[Buffalo Bop]

JudgeDD thanks for posting and welcome to Herd fans.

[vanhorn78]

Something certainly changed...


https://herdzone.com/news/2016/11/24/MCGILL_Van_Horn_s_Marshall_Experience_Filled_With_Love.aspx

Thought it would be nice to see opinions have apparently changes as time has passed.


I understand that Sarah Legg and Clint have gone separate ways since this article.  Three years is a
long time and much changes.

What does this article or my relationship with someone who is still a good friend of mine, have to do with the things I laid out for you, the things you challenged me on, and those same challenges I not only answered, but totally rendered you and your opinion wrong at every turn... my relationship with Bill Legg was business on the field, and business off the field. My feelings about what went on then are the same as now, and Sarah got to hear my dismay with an in-depth description, even then. Started some fights. The things I speak are the truth. Is there anything else you got for me? I know it sucks being wrong. I’m also amused that you are bringing into question things that you feel like you know better than me, but I actually lived/live it and/or am within it now. Everything you’ve challenged me on is an actual account from my view inside of Marshall football and from inside a relationship with my ex. I’m literally laughing out loud. Keep speculating.

[vanhorn78]

Something certainly changed...


https://herdzone.com/news/2016/11/24/MCGILL_Van_Horn_s_Marshall_Experience_Filled_With_Love.aspx

Thought it would be nice to see opinions have apparently changes as time has passed.


I understand that Sarah Legg and Clint have gone separate ways since this article.  Three years is a long time and much changes.

Annnnnnnd... I’ve had another girlfriend for almost two years. Sarah and I were over before the summer of 2017. Just another tidbit for ya. By the way, what’s your name? What do you do for a living? How credible is your view point? Did you play football too? Coach anywhere? Also, who is your wife/husband, bf/gf... what is their name?

[vanhorn78]

Doc said last night that next year maybe his best offensive line ever.

Do you believe doc?

[whf]

Me thinks you doth sell too hard...

Story changed when you left, outside influences, revisiting your own history.  What do I know?  I wish you could now look back at things you once cherished publicly and still cherish them.  But looks like that ship has sailed.

Best of luck to you.  Sorry your experience ended up so un-gratifying and that you hold others responsible for it not happening, and the same for others recently departing. 

But that doesn't change my mind that Locklear was treated fairly and othersj played when he wanted to because the coaches felt it best for their chances of winning, and for the program.  Your opinion is that isn't the case; my opinion is that it is.
 
Wish you the best in the second best law school in KY; compared to NKU being number one (just kidding here, have a son with a Law Degree from NKU...)

[2xBison]

Do you believe doc?

I'm not necessarily a believer of what Doc says, no.  Just providing the information to this o line discussion and if true, could impact a persons decision to transfer.  But I also know that, not getting a fair shot or a bad environment can result in a reason to transfer too.

[goherd24]

Me thinks you doth sell too hard...

Story changed when you left, outside influences, revisiting your own history.  What do I know?  I wish you could now look back at things you once cherished publicly and still cherish them.  But looks like that ship has sailed.

Best of luck to you.  Sorry your experience ended up so un-gratifying and that you hold others responsible for it not happening, and the same for others recently departing. 

But that doesn't change my mind that Locklear was treated fairly and othersj played when he wanted to because the coaches felt it best for their chances of winning, and for the program.  Your opinion is that isn't the case; my opinion is that it is.
 
Wish you the best in the second best law school in KY; compared to NKU being number one (just kidding here, have a son with a Law Degree from NKU...)

I truly believe Doc could take a dump in your hand, and you would shine it up, and think it was a piece of 24k gold, and wear it around your neck.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

[BHFIOHIO]

It was good enough last yr for a tr Fr to run for over 100 yds in the second half vs Charlotte who held Tennessee to 15 the whole game and for 200 vs Va Tech. And ran over USF pretty good and have 4 starters returning plus the 350lb behemoth and THATS why I beleieve him.

[MicDrass1]

It was good enough last yr for a tr Fr to run for over 100 yds in the second half vs Charlotte who held Tennessee to 15 the whole game and for 200 vs Va Tech. And ran over USF pretty good and have 4 starters returning plus the 350lb behemoth and THATS why I beleieve him.

You are 100% correct.  We lost games bc our coaches couldn't understand that run blocking was the best part of our team.  Complete coaching blunder after blunder.  Make the same mistakes this year at the jump send them all packing.

[JudgeDD]

Me thinks you doth sell too hard...

Story changed when you left, outside influences, revisiting your own history.  What do I know?  I wish you could now look back at things you once cherished publicly and still cherish them.  But looks like that ship has sailed.

Best of luck to you.  Sorry your experience ended up so un-gratifying and that you hold others responsible for it not happening, and the same for others recently departing. 

But that doesn't change my mind that Locklear was treated fairly and othersj played when he wanted to because the coaches felt it best for their chances of winning, and for the program.  Your opinion is that isn't the case; my opinion is that it is.
 
Wish you the best in the second best law school in KY; compared to NKU being number one (just kidding here, have a son with a Law Degree from NKU...)

I've read a bunch on this site but never commented until yesterday.  And I don't know you.  But I have to say that it's one thing to argue with the opinions of fans on this board, but it's another to argue with the experiences of a respected former player who was there.  How could you possibly know if Locklear was treated poorly or not?  Were you in even one meeting?  Privy to his practices and film work?  Have any real idea about his technique and ability?  Clint was an NFL prospect at the position before he when through a few years of injuries.  Still, I think he knows a thing or two about O-linemen.  And he knows even more about the behind-the-scenes happenings with the Marshall football team, the way players were evaluated and treated by the coaches, and the climate and culture those coaches cultivated. 

[herdfifteen]

I find it interesting that a major part of our recruiting every year is when the recruits decide to sign with Marshall invariably they talk about team chemistry and how much the players love playing for the school. Too, many discuss the feeling of family they get from the locker room, if it is so terrible with our coaches would you not think the word would spread of their unhappiness? I certainly find it strange that a coach would prefer trying to win with players of lesser talent. Something here doesn't  pass the smell test.

[svherd]

I appreciate Clint’s and Judge DD comments. Thanks gentlemen.

[MicDrass1]

I find it interesting that a major part of our recruiting every year is when the recruits decide to sign with Marshall invariably they talk about team chemistry and how much the players love playing for the school. Too, many discuss the feeling of family they get from the locker room, if it is so terrible with our coaches would you not think the word would spread of their unhappiness? I certainly find it strange that a coach would prefer trying to win with players of lesser talent. Something here doesn't  pass the smell test.

The family environment is probably guys taking about their friends on the team and bond together, not feeling like Doc Holliday’s and the other coaches sons or brothers.  It’s Very common for male athletes to call their teammates brothers.  Has Nothing to do with coaches.  Just my experience with the whole family sports thing mantra at this level.

[herdfifteen]

The family environment is probably guys taking about their friends on the team and bond together, not feeling like Doc Holliday’s and the other coaches sons or brothers.  It’s Very common for male athletes to call their teammates brothers.  Has Nothing to do with coaches.  Just my experience with the whole family sports thing mantra at this level.

Well said. The point I am trying to make is we are hearing one side of the story, the other side will never be heard, coaches could never win responding publicly to  issues such as these.

[BHFIOHIO]

Seen several players with their arms around Doc's neck...Rakeem Cato for one. Also read about a player voted off the team by the seniors and another who got on social media more or less saying the coaches were inept. Jean Louis still called Doc when he was plying Div 11 upstate. A third guy many said was mistreated took a swing at a coach in practice and is in jail(maybe). Its not all one sided. Then there is the Lee Smith testimony. My mind is not made up but I do read the Herd sites and paper and see the pics after the Bowl wins.