Topic: Alex Locklear to Utah

[MUPhish]

Not really. More so under Doc’s nose. However, and like I said before in this thread, he was directly informed by me about as much as I could say before being brushed off.

I'm running out of guesses. Then what, training and medical staff? strength and conditioning? academic advisers/tutors? I know you can't say specifically, but a hint here would be helpful.

[MUsince96]

I'm running out of guesses. Then what, training and medical staff? strength and conditioning? academic advisers/tutors? I know you can't say specifically, but a hint here would be helpful.

A certain assistant AD who blocks everyone on Twitter comes to mind. But that's just a guess based on what's been posted.

[s1uggo]

Chase Litton’s concussion was a direct result of the scheme. In how our offense was ran, every time he dropped back to pass, it was a gamble for his health too. If anyone was the qb that year, they would’ve faired the same way he did and I think he did a heck of a job with what he and the rest of us had going against us. Chase went from being immature his first year, to being very mature until being undermined completely. Then he shelled up like the rest of us midway through the season. I don’t condone some of his actions, but then I also don’t blame him. Guys were at their wit’s end that season. The following season, he was given back part of what was taken from him. He started to get right back on track, gained weight, and focused on doing enough to leave the following season. For everything that he endured, I’d say that him making Kansas City’s practice squad is a heck of an accomplishment. I would’ve left if I were him too. And had I known 2016 was going to happen the way it did, I would’ve left in 14 or 15. Hindsight is 20/20, though, and I’m happy with how my life turned out. What I’m not happy with is the effect it has on everyone I played with and guys that still deal with the problems that still persist within the program.

is this the problem?   

I couldnt get it to que up right, go to the 8:17 mark.  You guys are all cutting, and on the ground.

BTW pretty good block on the sweep(outside zone?) on the previous play

[MicDrass1]

Keion Davis sure looked much quicker, faster and with much better acceleration in 16 than anytime after.  What the heck happened to him.

[Scottyo614]

Keion Davis sure looked much quicker, faster and with much better acceleration in 16 than anytime after.  What the heck happened to him.

17 he looked quite good. Especially in the return game. 18 he had injuries. I thought 16 he put on too much weight early and then got hurt late. You can never question his heart or effort that year at least from the stands view

[vanhorn78]

Its there. The cutting, itself, wasn’t the problem. It would’ve worked if that main problem was fixed. Further than this, and with no intentions to keep you guessing or speculating (although, I understand and I’m the same way), I will not speak anymore, pertaining to the main issues and their essence. Again, if people in administration care to hear, then they will hear. I’ve enjoyed the conversations, but my purpose was to inform you of things you might not usually hear about. This stemmed from my initial purpose for posting here- Alex Locklear. I look forward to more conversations in the future, hopefully not as heavy as this one. Again, I am proud of Locklear for what he has accomplished with as much adversity as he has faced, and no matter what, when, where, how or who, I hope the Herd does great.

[Big Ol' Hillbilly]

As for the films, I've watched games over and over and over, stopping each play,running them back to watch the Oline, and other possessions.  You have your opinion, I have mine.  Apparently two sets of offensive coaches thought others should play ahead of him; not one, but two sets of coaches.

This is too damn funny. An arm chair QB arguing with a former division I athlete that his DVR replay game watching is elite to the athlete's hours spent watching game film with coaches. I bet whf plays a mean game of Madden. Maybe he should watch the commercial with Clint on the leg press machine  over and over and over, stopping each press, running them back to watch the leg extensions and other movements and realize that Clint could probably crush his scrawny a$$ like a grape.

[whf]

This is too damn funny. An arm chair QB arguing with a former division I athlete that his DVR replay game watching is elite to the athlete's hours spent watching game film with coaches. I bet whf plays a mean game of Madden. Maybe he should watch the commercial with Clint on the leg press machine  over and over and over, stopping each press, running them back to watch the leg extensions and other movements and realize that Clint could probably crush his scrawny a$$ like a grape.

Funny, kind of late to the table BOH, I wrote this about a week ago.  Did you just wake up from a long winters nap?

[Thundering In MD]

No disrespect meant to anyone, but I cannot tic and tie the facts spelled out here with any news articles to authenticate the identity of the person making these statements as being the former football player. 

We seem to have some apparent social influencers popping up on the board over the past year.  The football player was here for SIX years, and all the articles I can find are positive about him, his mother, and his time on the team.

Again, no disrespect meant, but I am not sure this is legitimate.  Peace out.

[MUther]

Funny, kind of late to the table BOH, I wrote this about a week ago.  Did you just wake up from a long winters nap?

You know we've talked about Doc's doghouse and playing favorites for years and years.  Before Grooms and Butler got in  legal trouble and left the team we were always wondering why they weren't in and we were playing Talifero and Watson.  Grooms and Butler were way more explosive and we weren't producing yards with the others.  That's just one example.  There have been many over the years that didn't kiss Doc's ass and got sidelined.  To now say that doesn't happen is absurd.  To say it doesn't happen based on watching DVR'ed games is ludicrous. 

You've been told this staff is a shitshow for years.  You didn't want to believe it.  And now that you have former players confirming this, you refuse to believe it.  All of you eternal optimists bury your heads in the sand.  You've gotten rich off all the nickels you've received for saying "just wait till next year."  You just know there was collusion, despite a 2 year investigation saying there wasn't.  In other words, you're going to believe what you want regardless of information put in front of you to the contrary.

[MUther]

No disrespect meant to anyone, but I cannot tic and tie the facts spelled out here with any news articles to authenticate the identity of the person making these statements as being the former football player. 

We seem to have some apparent social influencers popping up on the board over the past year.  The football player was here for SIX years, and all the articles I can find are positive about him, his mother, and his time on the team.

Again, no disrespect meant, but I am not sure this is legitimate.  Peace out.

Yeah and everybody who thinks we might lose a game is a WVU fan.  Let's shoot the messenger because we don't like the message.

[Big Ol' Hillbilly]

Funny, kind of late to the table BOH, I wrote this about a week ago.  Did you just wake up from a long winters nap?

Nope. I just saw it. Sorry I have a life and don’t spend all of my heart beats on Marshall message boards and watching DVR replays of games, rewinding plays and analyzing them.

[svherd]

Have to say, this has been the most interesting thread I have read in a long time. Kudos!
Let’s  hope a great season for the Herd in 2019.

[herdfifteen]

Yeah and everybody who thinks we might lose a game is a WVU fan.  Let's shoot the messenger because we don't like the message.

The problem is the messenger is consumed with anti Doc rhetoric, whether or not the story has merit is often lost in the process.

[HaveUherd]

The problem is the messenger is consumed with anti Doc rhetoric, whether or not the story has merit is often lost in the process.

Doc reportedly only coaches (makes adjustments) special teams, often poorly manages games and gets a few good recruits that other schools won’t or can’t take. Not sure we are getting our 600K worth out of Doc especially when you consider the even further amount of money we are losing due to attendance decline under Doc! I think he only has 2 years left on his contract at least. If he could go to wvu and let us collect 3 mill that would be amazing lol.

Sorry I mistakenly give you a smite when was only meaning to quote you.

[JudgeDD]

Its there. The cutting, itself, wasn’t the problem. It would’ve worked if that main problem was fixed. Further than this, and with no intentions to keep you guessing or speculating (although, I understand and I’m the same way), I will not speak anymore, pertaining to the main issues and their essence. Again, if people in administration care to hear, then they will hear. I’ve enjoyed the conversations, but my purpose was to inform you of things you might not usually hear about. This stemmed from my initial purpose for posting here- Alex Locklear. I look forward to more conversations in the future, hopefully not as heavy as this one. Again, I am proud of Locklear for what he has accomplished with as much adversity as he has faced, and no matter what, when, where, how or who, I hope the Herd does great.

I am going to try to draw you in for another question.  Parts of this thread have been a little cryptic (and I understand) and parts have been hard to decipher even for me, and I'm pretty sure I know what you're referring to most of the time. 

For clarification, could you describe, not what the lack of culture has looked like lately, but what the culture was pre-2016.  The culture that was lost.  What was it like to play football for Marshall and Coach Mirabal before 2016?  I could try to give my second-hand account, but it wouldn't measure up to your first-hand thoughts.  I have tremendous respect for you and leader you were while at Marshall.  I hope you consider posting a few words about those early years when that OL had each other's backs, the coaches and players were all on the same page, and the OL room led the way.

[vanhorn78]

I am going to try to draw you in for another question.  Parts of this thread have been a little cryptic (and I understand) and parts have been hard to decipher even for me, and I'm pretty sure I know what you're referring to most of the time. 

For clarification, could you describe, not what the lack of culture has looked like lately, but what the culture was pre-2016.  The culture that was lost.  What was it like to play football for Marshall and Coach Mirabal before 2016?  I could try to give my second-hand account, but it wouldn't measure up to your first-hand thoughts.  I have tremendous respect for you and leader you were while at Marshall.  I hope you consider posting a few words about those early years when that OL had each other's backs, the coaches and players were all on the same page, and the OL room led the way.

Before coach Mirabal, I was thinking about quitting and the o line coach before him (Coach Wade) tried to get me to transfer because “I wasn’t talented enough to play and would never be able to be good enough to see the field.” I was angry at nobody, but myself. Big Swede (Sebastian Johansson) had the same things said about him, to the entire staff in a meeting, by Coach Wade. He and I both were told my Legg and Mirabal a good while later what was said about us by our former position coach. Mirabal gave us the mental and physical tools to ensure our success. He never once doubted our ability. Three additions in 2013 took us to the next level as a program: Coach Sinclair (not that Coach Miday wasn’t wonderful, because he was!!!), Coach Heater and Coach Mirabal. Players became more vocal and the team was very player-driven. Regarding Mirabal, he emphasized having a pack-mentality (our mantra was literally Kipling’s Law of the Jungle). In fact, he was given the floor many times to speak to the team on mentality, currently had or desired. His outlook was contagious. His specialty was turning less talented players into great players. He embraced the nature of recruiting at a place like Marshall, focusing on kids that would’ve never had the opportunity to grow like they did under his coaching, before 2016. He lost that outlook, and it blinded him to have that previous effect on kids, such as Locklear, who I might add was/is more talented than anyone o linemen to come through during my time, with the exception of Josh Lovell, Garrett Scott, and Sandley Jean-Felix- these guys were very talented. Mirabal was about technique, being nasty, finishing, players being vocal and him truly listening to us. Our o line in 2014 competed that season for who could get the most knockdowns. We weren’t like that leading up to his joining us. After 2015 ended, he changed almost completely and fell on the sword of pride. It breaks my heart for guys like Locklear, Mollette, Dowery and Devers because the culture they experienced for the majority of their time isn’t the culture I promised they’d be apart of. Mollette is special regarding his ability. He is now the best o linemen on the team. Dowery held down that left guard spot for over 3 seasons with the worst back issues I’ve ever seen played with. He would’ve been all conf if not for having surgery in 2015. Go back and watch the second half of the 2015 season and tell me otherwise. Dowery and Devers were repeatedly stifled when trying to lead in the same way they learned from Jasperse, Swede, Selby and myself. Coach Mirabal outwardly showed his disgust for them in and after the 2016 season, because they sided with Selby and I and made it blatant... just as everyone else did that was on that offensive staff’s badside. I even see Tarik Adams and Cain Madden play with that mean, nasty mentality at times. They had some good games this past season and some very dominant blocks. I just don’t see it consistently and that goes back to a couple of their current problems.

[vanhorn78]

No disrespect meant to anyone, but I cannot tic and tie the facts spelled out here with any news articles to authenticate the identity of the person making these statements as being the former football player. 

We seem to have some apparent social influencers popping up on the board over the past year.  The football player was here for SIX years, and all the articles I can find are positive about him, his mother, and his time on the team.

Again, no disrespect meant, but I am not sure this is legitimate.  Peace out.

Does the detail in my last post let you know that this is me, or still not enough details to convince you?

[JudgeDD]

Before coach Mirabal, I was thinking about quitting and the o line coach before him (Coach Wade) tried to get me to transfer because “I wasn’t talented enough to play and would never be able to be good enough to see the field.” I was angry at nobody, but myself. Big Swede (Sebastian Johansson) had the same things said about him, to the entire staff in a meeting, by Coach Wade. He and I both were told my Legg and Mirabal a good while later what was said about us by our former position coach. Mirabal gave us the mental and physical tools to ensure our success. He never once doubted our ability. Three additions in 2013 took us to the next level as a program: Coach Sinclair (not that Coach Miday wasn’t wonderful, because he was!!!), Coach Heater and Coach Mirabal. Players became more vocal and the team was very player-driven. Regarding Mirabal, he emphasized having a pack-mentality (our mantra was literally Kipling’s Law of the Jungle). In fact, he was given the floor many times to speak to the team on mentality, currently had or desired. His outlook was contagious. His specialty was turning less talented players into great players. He embraced the nature of recruiting at a place like Marshall, focusing on kids that would’ve never had the opportunity to grow like they did under his coaching, before 2016. He lost that outlook, and it blinded him to have that previous effect on kids, such as Locklear, who I might add was/is more talented than anyone o linemen to come through during my time, with the exception of Josh Lovell, Garrett Scott, and Sandley Jean-Felix- these guys were very talented. Mirabal was about technique, being nasty, finishing, players being vocal and him truly listening to us. Our o line in 2014 competed that season for who could get the most knockdowns. We weren’t like that leading up to his joining us. After 2015 ended, he changed almost completely and fell on the sword of pride. It breaks my heart for guys like Locklear, Mollette, Dowery and Devers because the culture they experienced for the majority of their time isn’t the culture I promised they’d be apart of. Mollette is special regarding his ability. He is now the best o linemen on the team. Dowery held down that left guard spot for over 3 seasons with the worst back issues I’ve ever seen played with. He would’ve been all conf if not for having surgery in 2015. Go back and watch the second half of the 2015 season and tell me otherwise. Dowery and Devers were repeatedly stifled when trying to lead in the same way they learned from Jasperse, Swede, Selby and myself. Coach Mirabal outwardly showed his disgust for them in and after the 2016 season, because they sided with Selby and I and made it blatant... just as everyone else did that was on that offensive staff’s badside. I even see Tarik Adams and Cain Madden play with that mean, nasty mentality at times. They had some good games this past season and some very dominant blocks. I just don’t see it consistently and that goes back to a couple of their current problems.

That was remarkable.  Insightful and from the heart.  Thank you so much for your candor.

I guess the only question I have left is why?  Why was there such a shift of culture and toughness?  Why did Coach Mirabal go from inspirational leader who trusted his players to a shadow of that man who berated his players?  What was the tipping point?

You mentioned the competition for knockdowns and it reminded my that Alex Mirabal sent me his final OL stats for 2015.  I remember the grit and mental toughness you guys played with.  It was contagious, and the young players were better because you older guys led the way.  I know it was a tough year for you injury-wise, but this OL was better just having you there.

Marshall OL 2015
Player                      SNAPS   MA    KO    SA     P
Michael Selby (Jr)            929   11    55      0      9
Sandley Jean-Felix (So)    915   19    11      2    10
Sebastian Johansson (Sr) 886     3    38      0      1
Jordan Dowrey (Fr)          548     2    43      1      2
AJ Addison (So)                 439   13    14      2      6
Cody Collins (So)             328     6    14      1      3
Clint Van Horn (Sr)          176     4    11      1      0
Nate Devers (Fr)              132     0      7      2      0
Tom Collins (Sr)          131     2      4      4      0   

MA (Missed Assignments    KO (Knockdowns)    SA (Sacks Allowed)    P (Penalties Against)

[vanhorn78]

That was remarkable.  Insightful and from the heart.  Thank you so much for your candor.

I guess the only question I have left is why?  Why was there such a shift of culture and toughness?  Why did Coach Mirabal go from inspirational leader who trusted his players to a shadow of that man who berated his players?  What was the tipping point?

You mentioned the competition for knockdowns and it reminded my that Alex Mirabal sent me his final OL stats for 2015.  I remember the grit and mental toughness you guys played with.  It was contagious, and the young players were better because you older guys led the way.  I know it was a tough year for you injury-wise, but this OL was better just having you there.

Marshall OL 2015
Player                      SNAPS   MA    KO    SA     P
Michael Selby (Jr)            929   11    55      0      9
Sandley Jean-Felix (So)    915   19    11      2    10
Sebastian Johansson (Sr) 886     3    38      0      1
Jordan Dowrey (Fr)          548     2    43      1      2
AJ Addison (So)                 439   13    14      2      6
Cody Collins (So)             328     6    14      1      3
Clint Van Horn (Sr)          176     4    11      1      0
Nate Devers (Fr)              132     0      7      2      0
Tom Collins (Sr)          131     2      4      4      0   

MA (Missed Assignments    KO (Knockdowns)    SA (Sacks Allowed)    P (Penalties Against)

You can tell a lot about a lineman by his knockdowns (KOs). It’s an obvious indicator of who your nastier and better linemen are. Back to what I said earlier, Dowery came in second with less snaps than Selby and Swede... in tears every snap from the back problems. Selby was probably our best oline player that season, and Swede of course a close second best. Unfortunately, I tore my pec halfway through the second quarter, against Ohio (Game 2). Still finished the game. Tried to come back against ODU, but made it worse. To put in perspective how good we were in 2014, Selby had 65 KOs during that season coming in third. Jasperse had 90 and I had 92. The country’s leader that season had 96... in the Big Ten: Brandon Scherff. I’d say that’s also an indicator of being aggressive, unified and giving great effort, and being in a system that works. Plain and simple.

[vanhorn78]

That was remarkable.  Insightful and from the heart.  Thank you so much for your candor.

I guess the only question I have left is why?  Why was there such a shift of culture and toughness?  Why did Coach Mirabal go from inspirational leader who trusted his players to a shadow of that man who berated his players?  What was the tipping point?

You mentioned the competition for knockdowns and it reminded my that Alex Mirabal sent me his final OL stats for 2015.  I remember the grit and mental toughness you guys played with.  It was contagious, and the young players were better because you older guys led the way.  I know it was a tough year for you injury-wise, but this OL was better just having you there.

Marshall OL 2015
Player                      SNAPS   MA    KO    SA     P
Michael Selby (Jr)            929   11    55      0      9
Sandley Jean-Felix (So)    915   19    11      2    10
Sebastian Johansson (Sr) 886     3    38      0      1
Jordan Dowrey (Fr)          548     2    43      1      2
AJ Addison (So)                 439   13    14      2      6
Cody Collins (So)             328     6    14      1      3
Clint Van Horn (Sr)          176     4    11      1      0
Nate Devers (Fr)              132     0      7      2      0
Tom Collins (Sr)          131     2      4      4      0   

MA (Missed Assignments    KO (Knockdowns)    SA (Sacks Allowed)    P (Penalties Against)

The shift relies almost solely on his pride and what his standard became. The problem with that standard is that it’s only contagious for those that are ok with being average. If you went against him in 2016, then you were no longer the standard... those that sided with him, or kept quiet, got to mold the standard into what it is and has been the last couple of seasons. We went about informing him about the problems, he later admitted to as being true, the right way- going straight to him, behind closed doors, and respectful. That persisted for months. The defensive guys noticed it as early as spring. The rest of the offensive guys that played, with the exception of one, started to notice it in camp that August and wanted it fixed. Midway through the season, I told everyone to leave it be, because they weren’t changing. However, multiple times each week, before practice, I was still in Mirabal’s office in tears begging him to see what was obviously wrong. He went on like nothing was wrong with the offense, ultimately apologizing after the season for being wrong.

[MicDrass1]

I am not defending Mirabel or any of our coaches bc it's their job to win.  But Mirabel in particular had earlier success and was perhaps looking to move to a bigger job, so his own ego motivated by his intentions to move up got in his way in 16.  He thought he was probably untouchable at Marshall.  Holliday always blew kisses his way.  Then after 16 he realized he was wrong and corrected it hoping things improved in order to get the bigger job.  It's human nature of coaches to want to move on to higher paying gigs and not let anything get in the way.  It's like you are in telephone booth and nobody is allowed in. 

[Scottyo614]

Clint thank you for all you’ve answered here. I appreciate the openness. I have a couple questions regarding to your 15 year that since has been mentioned I’d love to ask with some context before.

I came to Marshall in 2007. I was close with a couple players and knew a few from association/working around campus between 11-13. I’ve posted this on here before, but the ones I was closer with always said during the early 13 year that 14 would be fine, but after was a huge question mark. They noted a few things to me. At the end of 15 I asked them if that’s what they meant and they all said yeah.

During the OU loss it felt different. After that the season went well but there was watching players groups were forming, sideline engagement was dropping. From a fan side it didn’t seem like everyone was having fun like before. (One of those questions they had from above) Do you think 15 may have helped cause 16? I guess like 15 and other influences Doc may not have known started late in 15 and carried over.

Also (I don’t expect this answered fully if it is)  I’m from Central Ohio. Nick Smith may be the best high school kicker outside of an OSU punter I’ve ever seen. But he fell apart at MTSU. Was there ever a thought that may happen? Did y’all trust Curraj? When he came in I was like oh. No both guys are done from here out.

[vanhorn78]

Clint thank you for all you’ve answered here. I appreciate the openness. I have a couple questions regarding to your 15 year that since has been mentioned I’d love to ask with some context before.

I came to Marshall in 2007. I was close with a couple players and knew a few from association/working around campus between 11-13. I’ve posted this on here before, but the ones I was closer with always said during the early 13 year that 14 would be fine, but after was a huge question mark. They noted a few things to me. At the end of 15 I asked them if that’s what they meant and they all said yeah.

During the OU loss it felt different. After that the season went well but there was watching players groups were forming, sideline engagement was dropping. From a fan side it didn’t seem like everyone was having fun like before. (One of those questions they had from above) Do you think 15 may have helped cause 16? I guess like 15 and other influences Doc may not have known started late in 15 and carried over.

Also (I don’t expect this answered fully if it is)  I’m from Central Ohio. Nick Smith may be the best high school kicker outside of an OSU punter I’ve ever seen. But he fell apart at MTSU. Was there ever a thought that may happen? Did y’all trust Curraj? When he came in I was like oh. No both guys are done from here out.

They experimented with the type of scheme that screwed our offense against wku in 2015. Check out how well our offense did. Terrible. They fixed it before the bowl game, which confused us as to why they went back to it for a whole season. Ohio was a total team collapse and they put the blame on Birdsong. We had the most MAs (missed assignments) in that Ohio game as an offense, than we did in any game I’d ever been apart of. Guys ran the wrong routes, guys had unsportsmanlike penalties, oline guys were messing up protection, etc. Birdsong’s shoulder was hurt, but not hurt enough not to play. Chase was great, but Birdsong shouldn’t have been benched. They used him as a scapegoat. In all honesty, we just weren’t as good as we were in 2014. But the season should’ve been better. Shoulda, coulda,  woulda type thing. However, in 2016, we had all the players to be better than 2015. Legg and Mirabal screwed us. I will say that Todd Goebel separated himself from what those two were doing. I have a lot of respect for that man. He wanted nothing to do with their crap.

[SuperAnjario]

Care to comment on how Cato’s playmaking ability erased a lot of mistakes and created opportunities where an average player (like Chase) really had no play to make?