Topic: Alex Locklear to Utah

[vanhorn78]

Care to comment on how Cato’s playmaking ability erased a lot of mistakes and created opportunities where an average player (like Chase) really had no play to make?

Cato did his own thing a lot too. Chase was going to always try to do what he was told to do, regarding the game plan. Cato, on the other hand, had his own. He also had Tommy Shu. A chemistry that was a decade old. E fro and a freshman yurachek at TE, a healthy Devin Johnson, a back up RB that was honestly just as good in Stew Butler, Jean-Louis, Vonte Allen... And one of the best offensive lines in Marshall’s history. His playmaking ability saved maybe a few mistakes, but mistakes were very uncommon for the offense and defense in 14. We also weren’t really “young” at any position on both sides of the ball. I can think of some times where a lot of us erased some of Cato’s mistakes. It goes both ways. Cato was great and the Magic Man, but we also had a lot of pieces with Cato at the helm, that we didn’t have with Chase. I’ll go back to something I said before too... the mentality of the team was different with Cato, than it was with Chase, and even as of right now. Chase and Cato are two different players. Chase won more games in 2015, than Cato did at that same time in his career. And then the coaches undermined Chase... and he still didn’t do terrible. They never did that to Cato. Chase also made the practice squad in the NFL... for the Chiefs. Regarding your question, I’d say the answer to that question is too broad, and what it entails is more arbitrary, than a “for certain.”

[s1uggo]

Cato did his own thing a lot too. Chase was going to always try to do what he was told to do, regarding the game plan. Cato, on the other hand, had his own. He also had Tommy Shu. A chemistry that was a decade old. E fro and a freshman yurachek at TE, a healthy Devin Johnson, a back up RB that was honestly just as good in Stew Butler, Jean-Louis, Vonte Allen... And one of the best offensive lines in Marshall’s history. His playmaking ability saved maybe a few mistakes, but mistakes were very uncommon for the offense and defense in 14. We also weren’t really “young” at any position on both sides of the ball. I can think of some times where a lot of us erased some of Cato’s mistakes. It goes both ways. Cato was great and the Magic Man, but we also had a lot of pieces with Cato at the helm, that we didn’t have with Chase. I’ll go back to something I said before too... the mentality of the team was different with Cato, than it was with Chase, and even as of right now. Chase and Cato are two different players. Chase won more games in 2015, than Cato did at that same time in his career. And then the coaches undermined Chase... and he still didn’t do terrible. They never did that to Cato. Chase also made the practice squad in the NFL... for the Chiefs. Regarding your question, I’d say the answer to that question is too broad, and what it entails is more arbitrary, than a “for certain.”

Thanks for the responses, this is what I think many have a question about, 'And then the coaches undermined Chase'?  How?  The only way I would know of coaches undermining a player would be to go behind his back, and MF him to the rest of the team.  But if they wanted to do  that, why not just put him on the bench? 
Thoughts?  TIA

[vanhorn78]

Thanks for the responses, this is what I think many have a question about, 'And then the coaches undermined Chase'?  How?  The only way I would know of coaches undermining a player would be to go behind his back, and MF him to the rest of the team.  But if they wanted to do  that, why not just put him on the bench? 
Thoughts?  TIA

Chase gave them the best chances to win, in whatever system. That exact “how” manifests itself within what I couldn’t speak further on. You can undermine a player in a scheme too. If you limit a player’s responsibilities on the field, then that’s another way in which a player can be undermined.

[herd2win]

VH is leaving out a lot of issues that Chase caused....their were many things he did that one would not say were on the right side of trying to win a game...especially on one trip to Florida...

This entire thread is similar to life....not everyone likes everyone and that is OK.  There are clicks of people in offices just like on a football team...it does not mean that one side is right and one side is wrong...it just means that they see things differently.

You can tell by VH comments that he is not a Cato fan...read between the lines...Cato was a fierce competitor and his job was to be a college QB...not make a practice squad for the NFL...I also liked Chase as our QB but he was not a leader more of a follower...he did not command respect but had plenty of talent to be successful at MU.

[vanhorn78]

VH is leaving out a lot of issues that Chase caused....their were many things he did that one would not say were on the right side of trying to win a game...especially on one trip to Florida...

This entire thread is similar to life....not everyone likes everyone and that is OK.  There are clicks of people in offices just like on a football team...it does not mean that one side is right and one side is wrong...it just means that they see things differently.

You can tell by VH comments that he is not a Cato fan...read between the lines...Cato was a fierce competitor and his job was to be a college QB...not make a practice squad for the NFL...I also liked Chase as our QB but he was not a leader more of a follower...he did not command respect but had plenty of talent to be successful at MU.

You’re so ignorant. I didn’t say that Cato wasn’t a fierce competitor. Read what I said... nothing is written between the lines. Please tell me where you gather that I’m not a Cato fan? Cato is a legend and is one of the best QBs to come through Marshall. If you knew anyone I played with personally and asked them how I felt about him, you find out how untrue your statements are. I’d rather play with the group of guys I won my championship with than any other Marshall team or player. Wouldn’t change a thing. I came in with Cato, I sweated with Cato, bled with Cato, grew with Cato. If I was beat on a pass rush, I’d hold so that man wouldn’t get hit. My affinity and bond with him goes deeper than teammate, but when analyzing teams from different years, I think it behooves one doing so to focus on the facts that present themselves. Tell me where I was wrong. Challenge me on the words I wrote, instead of what you gather from “in-between the lines.” And I guess you’re right... some see things one way and are ok with losing or average, and some prefer being great. I didn’t know I was supposed to talk about the QBs and their causing issues. You could find certain faults with both, just like you could any player, because no player is perfect.

[breckjimison]

You can tell by VH comments that he is not a Cato fan...read between the lines...Cato was a fierce competitor and his job was to be a college QB...not make a practice squad for the NFL...I also liked Chase as our QB but he was not a leader more of a follower...he did not command respect but had plenty of talent to be successful at MU.
[/quote]

I never saw anywhere on anything he posted talking negatively about Cato

[cubsrams1]

Legg is gone. Mirabal is gone. Every offensive coach other than Pepe from 2016 is gone.  If Locklear was the best lineman, then why in your opinion did he not really play as much?   Is it Doc?  Did Mirabal make Coach Adkins play other guys?  I am trying to figure out what you think the current issue is. I’m not saying Locklear should have played more because I don’t know enough about OL to be a fair judge. 

[s1uggo]

Legg is gone. Mirabal is gone. Every offensive coach other than Pepe from 2016 is gone.  If Locklear was the best lineman, then why in your opinion did he not really play as much?   Is it Doc?  Did Mirabal make Coach Adkins play other guys?  I am trying to figure out what you think the current issue is. I’m not saying Locklear should have played more because I don’t know enough about OL to be a fair judge.

those are good questions imo.

[vanhorn78]

Legg is gone. Mirabal is gone. Every offensive coach other than Pepe from 2016 is gone.  If Locklear was the best lineman, then why in your opinion did he not really play as much?   Is it Doc?  Did Mirabal make Coach Adkins play other guys?  I am trying to figure out what you think the current issue is. I’m not saying Locklear should have played more because I don’t know enough about OL to be a fair judge.

I’ve answered this twice in previous posts.

[vanhorn78]

those are good questions imo.

And they’ve been answered twice.

[herd2win]

You can tell by VH comments that he is not a Cato fan...read between the lines...Cato was a fierce competitor and his job was to be a college QB...not make a practice squad for the NFL...I also liked Chase as our QB but he was not a leader more of a follower...he did not command respect but had plenty of talent to be successful at MU.


I never saw anywhere on anything he posted talking negatively about Cato

Read through one of long comments he was defending Chase and said that the oline had to make up for some of the off script plays of Cato....

[cubsrams1]

I’ve answered this twice in previous posts.

I recall you saying it seems like a deep cancer. Is that the answer or have you identified someone?  You’ve asked that people don’t speculate or read between the lines so that’s why I’m asking.

[mu79grad]

I've come to this party late but I've read all the posts to date.  One question for Clint is, what happened against WKU in 2014?  Was it overconfidence, was it a bad game plan, was it too much partying, was it too much Thanksgiving turkey, was it that Devon was not close to 100%, and/or was it Shuler running his mouth during pre-game warm-ups which seemed to me to really fire up WKU?  What exactly happened that a decent, but decided underdog like Western Kentucky won that game and cost Marshall any chance for an access bowl game that year?  I've read much speculation from those on this board but I am wanting to hear what went so drastically wrong from someone who actually played on that 2014 team. 

[parshall2marshall]

I've come to this party late but I've read all the posts to date.  One question for Clint is, what happened against WKU in 2014?  Was it overconfidence, was it a bad game plan, was it too much partying, was it too much Thanksgiving turkey, was it that Devon was not close to 100%, and/or was it Shuler running his mouth during pre-game warm-ups which seemed to me to really fire up WKU?  What exactly happened that a decent, but decided underdog like Western Kentucky won that game and cost Marshall any chance for an access bowl game that year?  I've read much speculation from those on this board but I am wanting to hear what went so drastically wrong from someone who actually played on that 2014 team.

My bet is that VH78 won't be willing to answer this one. Hint: ( as I've pointed out before ) There was no #31 tribute jersey for that game. Legg / Cato came out throwing carelessly against an extremely porous run defense, that Butler trampled when they finally called his number. Doc ordered a FGA from the 6-inch line. That is all I am willing to point out.

[MicDrass1]

My bet is that VH78 won't be willing to answer this one. Hint: ( as I've pointed out before ) There was no #31 tribute jersey for that game. Legg / Cato came out throwing carelessly against an extremely porous run defense, that Butler trampled when they finally called his number. Doc ordered a FGA from the 6-inch line. That is all I am willing to point out.

And we brought zero pressure packages on defense.  Gave an NFL qb all day to throw.  Coaching gameplan was awful.  More wrong than right in Herd football since Pruett left. 

[Grego_1995]

Do you think the team, as a whole, is headed in a better direction now???

[vanhorn78]

My bet is that VH78 won't be willing to answer this one. Hint: ( as I've pointed out before ) There was no #31 tribute jersey for that game. Legg / Cato came out throwing carelessly against an extremely porous run defense, that Butler trampled when they finally called his number. Doc ordered a FGA from the 6-inch line. That is all I am willing to point out.

I hope you’re not a betting man, because you bet wrong. We started the game in Empty, even though we didn’t practice a down of it all week. The coaches underestimated us without Devon Johnson. Legg was trying to take advantage of a potential shootout. We probably would’ve never gotten out of Empty if Cato hadn’t gotten on the sideline phone and cussed Legg out, demanding we go back to our bread and butter, ultimately giving Stew Butler a chance to carry the Johnson load... ands of course, Butler did just as good. It’s also true we didn’t have someone representing Mckelvey that game. I’m not superstitious, but that particular fact remains.

[vanhorn78]

Read through one of long comments he was defending Chase and said that the oline had to make up for some of the off script plays of Cato....

That wasn’t a negative comment. I also pointed out that it went both ways for whatever parties were involved in covering each other. It’s what good teams do. I merely pointed out that we saved him just as much as he saved us. In fact, we performed worse as an o line Chase’s whole career than we did for Cato.

[s1uggo]

I hope you’re not a betting man, because you bet wrong. We started the game in Empty, even though we didn’t practice a down of it all week. The coaches underestimated us without Devon Johnson. Legg was trying to take advantage of a potential shootout. We probably would’ve never gotten out of Empty if Cato hadn’t gotten on the sideline phone and cussed Legg out, demanding we go back to our bread and butter, ultimately giving Stew Butler a chance to carry the Johnson load... ands of course, Butler did just as good. It’s also true we didn’t have someone representing Mckelvey that game. I’m not superstitious, but that particular fact remains.

I have a hard time getting my head around running a play you hadnt practiced all week, especially the first play of the game (I guess I could see it in desperation time)  Really surprised the HC didnt give a WTF and ask where that was in the game plan. 
I am not doubting your story, but what you said would be totally and completely against any thing I've seen

[MicDrass1]

None of this is surprising coming from Herd football.  None of it. 

[svherd]

I have a hard time getting my head around running a play you hadnt practiced all week, especially the first play of the game (I guess I could see it in desperation time)  Really surprised the HC didnt give a WTF and ask where that was in the game plan. 
I am not doubting your story, but what you said would be totally and completely against any thing I've seen

Considering that game is likely the worst coaching job by the staff during Docs tenure, nothing shocks me.

[SuperAnjario]

Any update on how our most talented former lineman is doing?

[herdfan129]

Any update on how our most talented former lineman is doing?

On full scholarship for the #11 team in the country.

[Flat Tire 2]

Any update on how our most talented former lineman is doing?

According to the Utah web site:

"2019: Has played in both games on special teams, also seeing action on the offensive line against Northern Illinois. "


My guess is that special teams means plays on PAT line or field goal lineup and got to sub in the offensive line in their 35-17 win over NIU?

https://utahutes.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=9153

[marshallmark]

According to the Utah web site:

"2019: Has played in both games on special teams, also seeing action on the offensive line against Northern Illinois. "


My guess is that special teams means plays on PAT line or field goal lineup and got to sub in the offensive line in their 35-17 win over NIU?

https://utahutes.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=9153

All depends on what was important to him.  I don't fault him for wanting to try something different, for free, even if he's not playing as much as he would here.