Topic: Will a win over Ohio...

[MarshallGrad]

Criticism, good or bad - it's all just dust in the wind relative to program outcomes. Nothing said here, positive or negative is going to make this team better or worse. Fan knowledge of football has no bearing on how many wins we will or won't get. There is only one metric that matters: winning. As a coach, Doc's job is to bring home championships. It is his job. It isn't the job of fans to do that. Fans buy tickets and speak their minds, and most matters little to the objective: winning. That is the primary accountability of the head coach: Doc. He has achieved the objective once in his tenure. To some, that appears to be sufficient, to others it is a demonstration of failure.

Doesn't matter who know more about football than someone else, or who is being perceived to be too negative or too filled with green kool-aid. If you think Doc's performance to date is satisfactory, you are probably positive about the future. If you are a believer that past performance is the most reliable indicator of future outcomes, you are probably frustrated. I happen to be a believer in the latter.

Depending on your outlook, constructive criticism is "fire the head coach" or it could be "we're headed in a good direction". Constructive is in the eye of the beholder. I think change is good every ten years, especially of you have only one championship in that duration. I know Doc isn't going anywhere at least until his contract is over, so I'm content to wait it out, What's the alternative.

And to stay on topic: beating Ohio won't matter much to me if we end up as we have in all but one of the previous years under Docs tenure.

[Herdmeister]

Win or lose to Ohio and/or UC, this team will win the east. In fact we may go through conference play at 8-0. Seriously, who in the east or for that matter on our conference schedule has a pulse?

As was stated above CUSA East is on of of not the worst division in the FBS.
So, a conference championship and the right to say we are the tallest midget and another meaningless bowl and the administration will be pounding their collective chests!

[Herdalum83]

Win or lose to Ohio and/or UC, this team will win the east. In fact we may go through conference play at 8-0. Seriously, who in the east or for that matter on our conference schedule has a pulse?

As was stated above CUSA East is on of of not the worst division in the FBS.
So, a conference championship and the right to say we are the tallest midget and another meaningless bowl and the administration will be pounding their collective chests!

I'm ok with being the tallest midget. At least for a while. That's what we need to be. That's what Boise was. If you're the tallest midget consistently you eventually get your shot to prove you're not actually a midget. The problem is always being the 2nd, 3rd or 4th tallest midget. We've been the tallest midget in munchkin land exactly 1 time since we got into this conference. That is the issue.

[herdorbust]

Win or lose to Ohio and/or UC, this team will win the east. In fact we may go through conference play at 8-0. Seriously, who in the east or for that matter on our conference schedule has a pulse?

As was stated above CUSA East is on of of not the worst division in the FBS.
So, a conference championship and the right to say we are the tallest midget and another meaningless bowl and the administration will be pounding their collective chests!

You nailed it. We could win the mountain state athletic conference that SV is in. What would that prove?

[puma]

Win or lose to Ohio and/or UC, this team will win the east. In fact we may go through conference play at 8-0. Seriously, who in the east or for that matter on our conference schedule has a pulse?

None in the East but there are a few good teams in the West. When the season is said and done, I strongly suspect that that we wont play a single C-USA team on the schedule with a ranking in the Top-100 with at least 5 or 6 will be in FCS territory (130+). The Herd shouldn't lose to any of them. But it's like that every year. That's just how C-USA is.

Hopefully I'm wrong and I will eat crow but Doc will find a way to lose one or two of them or just enough to be #2 in the division and finish the season off at 8-4.

[puma]

I'm ok with being the tallest midget. At least for a while. That's what we need to be. That's what Boise was. If you're the tallest midget consistently you eventually get your shot to prove you're not actually a midget. The problem is always being the 2nd, 3rd or 4th tallest midget. We've been the tallest midget in munchkin land exactly 1 time since we got into this conference. That is the issue.

After C-USA imploded and Doc had a solid run between 2013-2015, I really thought Marshall was on its way to be the big fish in a little pond after so many years stuck as the little fish. It sucked being left behind and stuck with the band of misfits but at least there were a lot of wins -- three 10-win seasons, two division titles, and a championship.

We were basically on our way to being the NIU of C-USA. But then 2016 happened and we've somehow turned into the Ohio of C-USA, stuck in a Groundhog's Day loop of perpetual mediocrity, with one of the weakest strength-of-schedules in FBS.

[whf]

Everyone does understand what "relegated" means, right.  Why is it so hard to understand that G5, expect for a very select few, have been "relegated" to our level of college football.  I try to enjoy it; bashing one's team day after day must make it harder to enjoy.

[MUsince96]

After C-USA imploded and Doc had a solid run between 2013-2015, I really thought Marshall was on its way to be the big fish in a little pond after so many years stuck as the little fish. It sucked being left behind and stuck with the band of misfits but at least there were a lot of wins -- three 10-win seasons, two division titles, and a championship.

We were basically on our way to being the NIU of C-USA. But then 2016 happened and we've somehow turned into the Ohio of C-USA, stuck in a Groundhog's Day loop of perpetual mediocrity, with one of the weakest strength-of-schedules in FBS.

Careful. You'll be accused of bashing. Although I don't see anything that is factually incorrect in your post.

Some would just prefer the negatives not be mentioned. Because if they're not mentioned then tough decisions don't need to be made and nothing needs addressed. I hope they don't take this approach to things in their daily life.

[HerdBlizz]

You guys keep telling yourselves how bad the East is and you’ll need to find a excuse when we lose to one or two of them.  Every team in the east is saying the same thing.  I don’t believe we’re the tallest midget in the room.  I think we’re all  pretty much the same height!!

[puma]

You guys keep telling yourselves how bad the East is and you’ll need to find a excuse when we lose to one or two of them.  Every team in the east is saying the same thing.  I don’t believe we’re the tallest midget in the room.  I think we’re all  pretty much the same height!!

It's very likely The Herd won't face a single C-USA team ranked in the Top-100, with the majority being in FCS-territory (130+). Marshall will probably have a loss or two and finish the season somewhere in the mid-70s if history is any precedent. Yes, we're absolutely the tallest midget in the room.

[mlblack16]

As a fan, I do the best I can to ignore posts that complain because we aren’t winning championships each year.  Go Herd!!!

Just to clarify, most fans don't expect to win every year. However, we do expect more than one title per decade, which Doc has failed repeatedly to produce, even in this watered down conference.

[mlblack16]

You nailed it. We could win the mountain state athletic conference that SV is in. What would that prove?

That Doc isn't completely squandering all the resources and competitive advantages over pretty much the rest of the conference he has had for years.

[herdorbust]

You guys keep telling yourselves how bad the East is and you’ll need to find a excuse when we lose to one or two of them.  Every team in the east is saying the same thing.  I don’t believe we’re the tallest midget in the room.  I think we’re all  pretty much the same height!!

We aren’t great and maybe not even that good. But nowhere near as bad as the rest of the east.

[LCHerdfan]

Some call it bashing. Some call it having an objective discussion about things that are wrong. Interesting how that is.

I'm of the opinion without a ring Doc needs to leave, but saying that the stuff on here is just "an objective discussion" is wrong. Without fail anytime you post something against party line people accuse you of being Doc Holliday or Mike Hamrick.

[goherd24]

Win or lose to Ohio and/or UC, this team will win the east. In fact we may go through conference play at 8-0. Seriously, who in the east or for that matter on our conference schedule has a pulse?

As was stated above CUSA East is on of of not the worst division in the FBS.
So, a conference championship and the right to say we are the tallest midget and another meaningless bowl and the administration will be pounding their collective chests!

We have never went 8-0 in conference, not even with Cato. What on Earth would lead you to believe we can do that without a QB at all and still with Doc?

[HerdBlizz]

We aren’t great and maybe not even that good. But nowhere near as bad as the rest of the east.

I'm not so sure other then 1-2 teams that the East is super bad.  They are right in line with the Herd.  Look at their scores and who they have played and the points they score etc.  FL Atlantic has so far played AT Ohio St and UCF  both top 20.  Middle TN has played AT Michigan.   I think the East is pretty balanced out and were holding Doc.  We know he is no Ace in the hole.....

[HerdEcon]

That Doc isn't completely squandering all the resources and competitive advantages over pretty much the rest of the conference he has had for years.

What resources and competitive advantages are those?

[MUsince96]

What resources and competitive advantages are those?

1. Some of the best facilities in the league.
2. Top 1-2 recruiting classes every year.
3. The ability to take non-qualifiers that other conference schools can't or won't.
4. Typically the biggest home crowds in the league (no one in the East comes close) that create quite a home field advantage.

Looks like a recipe to have championship teams to me.

[ThunderValley]

A win over ohio make me feel better?
I expect a win over ohio. We are a better team.
A win over cinn will certainly make me feel better. But that win is not that good without the ohio win

[Brando3213]

End any of the continued bashing of the football program?  Many of the complainers predicted MU to get killed at Boise and the team played a competitive game...so now they pick apart his presser and Anything else to be negative about.

If we lose to Ohio I am fully on board that a change needs to be made but until that happens or we don’t win the East I am fully behind this team and coach...

Need to beat Ohio no question.  However, this season will be judged on a whether we win a conference title.  With the loss to Boise we can forget about running the table and now focus on winning a championship.  For me it's title or bust.  And just the division.  We have the best team in CUSA so lets go win a damn title. 

[herdfifteen]

I'm of the opinion without a ring Doc needs to leave, but saying that the stuff on here is just "an objective discussion" is wrong. Without fail anytime you post something against party line people accuse you of being Doc Holliday or Mike Hamrick.

You are absolutely correct. Does anyone remember when we used to ridicule another MU message board for this stuff. I am not a fan of Doc and I am not a fan of Green and I stated it once or twice, but many of these people come on here multiple times every day saying the same thing.

[Gaylen]

Just to clarify, most fans don't expect to win every year. However, we do expect more than one title per decade, which Doc has failed repeatedly to produce, even in this watered down conference.

I really do like championships and want to win one every year.
But us old coots remember when we were thrilled with a win every so often. A winning season would have been cause for celebration and we'd shut the town down for a championship.
I am glad that is not our lot in life any more but some of us remember (and not fondly) when it was.
All I am saying is enjoy winning. Hope for more but at least be able to enjoy 10-win seasons and bowl victories.

[herdfan129]

I really do like championships and want to win one every year.
But us old coots remember when we were thrilled with a win every so often. A winning season would have been cause for celebration and we'd shut the town down for a championship.
I am glad that is not our lot in life any more but some of us remember (and not fondly) when it was.
All I am saying is enjoy winning. Hope for more but at least be able to enjoy 10-win seasons and bowl victories.

So sick of hearing this... Just because we sucked back in the day doesn't mean its ok to be mediocre today. Not with this conference. Not with our facilities. Not with our fan base. Not with our ticket prices. Not with our recruiting advantages. Not after multiple Top 25 finishes. Not after multiple Heisman Trophy Finalists, etc etc.

We are NOT the same program we were back then. Look I get it, it's cool you were alive to watch the program literally be built from the ground up, but statements like this are a complete slap in the face to this program.

Half the people on this board would win 1 championship in 10 years in this conference. Especially having Cato at QB. If Doc doesn't win the conference he needs to go immediately.

I'll also donate $100 to the BG if we go undefeated in conference play. No way it happens.

Snyder was a better head coach than Doc and I'm not even joking. I truly believe that.

[Gaylen]

So sick of hearing this... Just because we sucked back in the day doesn't mean its ok to be mediocre today. Not with this conference. Not with our facilities. Not with our fan base. Not with our ticket prices. Not with our recruiting advantages. Not after multiple Top 25 finishes. Not after multiple Heisman Trophy Finalists, etc etc.

We are NOT the same program we were back then. Look I get it, it's cool you were alive to watch the program literally be built from the ground up, but statements like this are a complete slap in the face to this program.

Half the people on this board would win 1 championship in 10 years in this conference. Especially having Cato at QB. If Doc doesn't win the conference he needs to go immediately.

I'll also donate $100 to the BG if we go undefeated in conference play. No way it happens.

Snyder was a better head coach than Doc and I'm not even joking. I truly believe that.

Frankly, you got to be kidding with this response.
My statement wasn't about Doc at all. It was about people not being able to enjoy winning. Sorry that you are one of those people. And sorry you got the point of my post totally wrong.
And last but not least talking about the Young Thundering Herd and the struggles and the growth since then is NOT a slap in the face of this program.  Its just Marshall history, nothing more nothing less.

[goherd24]

Frankly, you got to be kidding with this response.
My statement wasn't about Doc at all. It was about people not being able to enjoy winning. Sorry that you are one of those people. And sorry you got the point of my post totally wrong.
And last but not least talking about the Young Thundering Herd and the struggles and the growth since then is NOT a slap in the face of this program.  Its just Marshall history, nothing more nothing less.

Gaylen, that's just it. We can enjoy winning. But we aren't winning. 8-4 in our cusa is NOT WINNING. I'm sorry man, you hsve to consider where we are. If we were in any p5 conference, I'd accept 6-6 and hooe we grew to do more. If we were in the AAC, i could accept 8-4 with the occasional challenge for a title. In CUSA, we should EXPECT an East division title at least 2 out of 3 years. That would be winning, and that would be ok. 10 win seasons with a division title is ok occasionally. 11 wins with a championship 2 out of 3 years is where we need to be as Marshall in CUSA, until we get out of this garbage dump or it somehow miraculously gets better.