Topic: Doc and Marshall

[BHFIOHIO]

but a guy in this thread polled many who said just the opposite. You're living in the nineties...need to catch up and get real. We aint UCF(with 50 K student dollars) or even Cincy but we're the little school that can and does.

[herdorbust]

but a guy in this thread polled many who said just the opposite. You're living in the nineties...need to catch up and get real. We aint UCF(with 50 K student dollars) or even Cincy but we're the little school that can and does.

Can and does what? And maybe I am stuck in the 90’s? I remember having confidence in the staff. I remember QB’s that you felt like could pass against anyone and not have zero offense for an entire half. I remember when we came out for the jugular and not just playing not to lose. Maybe I am stuck in the 90’s but is it to much to ask to have confidence and be excited at games in the 2000’s?

[GreenBison]

UCF is one bad hire from being 0-12 again and then they'll loose any respect they had gained.

2016 they were 6-7
2015 they were 0-12

[BHFIOHIO]

so are we..thats exactly my point. New hires are a crap shoot. Kayo, Dwight, Jirsa, G White, Herrion, Tan Man all good examples. Might be some of the same people on the BOG that influenced those hires. Scarier than he**!

[herdorbust]

so are we..thats exactly my point. New hires are a crap shoot. Kayo, Dwight, Jirsa, G White, Herrion, Tan Man all good examples. Might be some of the same people on the BOG that influenced those hires. Scarier than he**!

I agree with you 100% on that. It could get a lot lot worse. But mediocre boring football just doesn’t excite me. The ones that do like it, great. If it makes them happy that is a great thing and I don’t have a problem with it at all.

[whf]

Expect for three series in the second half, if you think the OU game was mediocre, boring football, I'm not sure you'll ever be a MU football fan again; and think you are just looking for excuses.  That was one great game at the Joan.

[BHFIOHIO]

giddyup

P.S. some just have an agenda..obvious there is zero objectivity....funny $hit!

[herd2win]

I believe we could do a lot worse than Doc and any new hire has about a 20% chance at best being better than Doc...but after 10 years if we don’t win the East and at least play for the conference championship this year we do need a change of coach and an injection of freshness..

[LateHit]

I'm a big Doc supporter (although I get why some would not be). He has a stable program and recruits well. I think he does a lot with a little, please correct me if I'm wrong but we don't pay him or his assistants amazing salaries (which is understandable considering our budget and tv contract) Doc has consistently made us a winner, I was in school at Marshall during the Mark Snyder years and I never want to go back to that. My concern if we fire Doc would be who would replace him and if that person is successful they'll more than likely use the job as a stepping stone. I do agree that we need more cusa championships however, there is no reason why we can't win this conference often.

[MUsince96]

I'm a big Doc supporter (although I get why some would not be). He has a stable program and recruits well. I think he does a lot with a little, please correct me if I'm wrong but we don't pay him or his assistants amazing salaries (which is understandable considering our budget and tv contract) Doc has consistently made us a winner, I was in school at Marshall during the Mark Snyder years and I never want to go back to that. My concern if we fire Doc would be who would replace him and if that person is successful they'll more than likely use the job as a stepping stone. I do agree that we need more cusa championships however, there is no reason why we can't win this conference often.

To the bold points. Doc makes about $800K a year.
At Northern Illinois, Rod Carey made $630K a year and took them to the Orange Bowl before moving on.
At Western Michigan, PJ Fleck made $800K a year and took them to the Cotton Bowl before moving on.

Even at a school like Arkansas State they've paid 4 head coaches anywhere from $200,000 to $850,000 since 2011. And have 5 conference championships since 2011. I'd love for Marshall to have 4 stepping stone coaches if it meant 5 conference championships.

You don't have to break the bank to have conference championships and NY6 bowls.

G5 jobs should be stepping stone jobs. If no one bigger wants your coach it means you aren't winning anything of note.

[MicDrass1]

Marshall has plenty to offer new coaches.   A stepping stone program is a good problem …..  Boise State.  You can promote within when the HC leaves. 

[bighat]

Most people who want to get rid of Doc assume we are going to get some hot shot that will take us back to what we think were the glory years.  Hiring a new coach is a crap shoot and the odds are against us.

[svherd]

If and when Doc retires, I would hope we would consider an up and coming FCS HC that has had success. They’d get a nice pay increase and a chance to prove themselves on the D1 level. Not sure why we think a D1 assistant would be any better.

[The E-Man]

Most people who want to get rid of Doc assume we are going to get some hot shot that will take us back to what we think were the glory years.  Hiring a new coach is a crap shoot and the odds are against us.

So what are we going to do stay mediocre, if Doc doesn't win it this year or next? If we did hire a coach, I hope Hamrick doesn't make that decision, he hasn't had any success hiring new coaches at ECU, Nevada, and here.

[lincolndds]

Long time listener, first time caller here. I feel like you can compare this to playing the stock market. Doc is the safe conservative play. He's going to get you a steady return with not much fluctuation in either direction. We're pretty much guaranteed a bowl game but we won't be beating down the access bowl. With that said, 2 things bother me about Doc. The first being up until Doc I always woke up thinking we had a chance to win the game. That started to decline with Snyder and  just flat left with Doc and the WVU debacle. Anymore, I just don't get my hopes up because I know he will let me down. Second, I just don't see any real player development. Very few of these guys seem to get better between their freshman and senior season. There are exceptions but on the whole I find that lacking. JMO.

[bighat]

E-man, we could be really bad and not just mediocre, that's all I was trying to indicate.

[MUBoogercats]

Long time lurker, first time poster here.  I worked with the football team during the 06' and 07' Snyder years and can assuredly say that Doc is not him.  I will say, in defense of Snyder, he worked his tail off with the defense, suffered from a talent gap, and played harder competition (IMHO) but that's a different topic.

About Doc, I'm a good Doc/bad Doc kind of guy.  Allow me to explain:

Good Doc:
Stable program
One losing record in CUSA since 2010 (2016 still remains a mystery)
No NCAA violations (so far)
6-0 bowl record
7-9 wins every year

Bad Doc:
One CUSA title in 10 years
Only played in CUSA title game twice in 10
Games seem to get away from him (half time adjustments seem to never materialize; looking at you BSU)
If we're playing a team above .500 during the regular season, best to enter with low expectations
Transparency with fans

Like posters have said before, Doc is a safe play; he'll get you to a bowl and probably win it.  I think most people who want to see him gone have just grown tired of not winning CUSA because, lets be honest, it's not the hardest conference.  Whichever camp you find yourself in, GO HERD!

[dennieheck]

I have always said a winning coach has to be able to have or know how to do the following.

Have good assistants! Doc's hires have good and bad.  When they are bad, he still keeps them until the fire hits the pan.

Have good assistants and him must able to correct and make changes at half time.  This has been done very little during Doc's time as the  head coach.  He has failed to change things up, plus if he does change things they are for the worse.

Good example:  In the last game first half we throw over the middle or throw in post patterns and scored and ran the ball.  The second half we went back to the old way of things.  Down the sidelines and eliminated the run. 

If people think back when Cato and Schuler was here, what was the bread and butter play for us.  The middle if the field and not forcing the ball down the side line.  For the last 5 years the middle of the middle of the field has not been used, so ever team has seen this and that is why people going down the sideline fail to connect.

[elginherd]

Long time listener, first time caller here. I feel like you can compare this to playing the stock market. Doc is the safe conservative play. He's going to get you a steady return with not much fluctuation in either direction. We're pretty much guaranteed a bowl game but we won't be beating down the access bowl. With that said, 2 things bother me about Doc. The first being up until Doc I always woke up thinking we had a chance to win the game. That started to decline with Snyder and  just flat left with Doc and the WVU debacle. Anymore, I just don't get my hopes up because I know he will let me down. Second, I just don't see any real player development. Very few of these guys seem to get better between their freshman and senior season. There are exceptions but on the whole I find that lacking. JMO.

Good 1st post...I don't agree with the player development point, except QB development which has been lacking since Cato. Great analogy with the market. I always welcome thought provoking posts, even when I don't agree with some of them.

[The E-Man]

E-man, we could be really bad and not just mediocre, that's all I was trying to indicate.

I know where you're coming from. I just hate being a mediocre team, when we have the talent to dominate.

[LateHit]

To the bold points. Doc makes about $800K a year.
At Northern Illinois, Rod Carey made $630K a year and took them to the Orange Bowl before moving on.
At Western Michigan, PJ Fleck made $800K a year and took them to the Cotton Bowl before moving on.

Even at a school like Arkansas State they've paid 4 head coaches anywhere from $200,000 to $850,000 since 2011. And have 5 conference championships since 2011. I'd love for Marshall to have 4 stepping stone coaches if it meant 5 conference championships.

You don't have to break the bank to have conference championships and NY6 bowls.

G5 jobs should be stepping stone jobs. If no one bigger wants your coach it means you aren't winning anything of note.

Thank you for your insight. The numbers really helped me gain some perspective.

[The E-Man]

To the bold points. Doc makes about $800K a year.
At Northern Illinois, Rod Carey made $630K a year and took them to the Orange Bowl before moving on.
At Western Michigan, PJ Fleck made $800K a year and took them to the Cotton Bowl before moving on.

Even at a school like Arkansas State they've paid 4 head coaches anywhere from $200,000 to $850,000 since 2011. And have 5 conference championships since 2011. I'd love for Marshall to have 4 stepping stone coaches if it meant 5 conference championships.

You don't have to break the bank to have conference championships and NY6 bowls.

G5 jobs should be stepping stone jobs.If no one bigger wants your coach it means you aren't winning anything of note.

+1,, wish, I could give you 10 more..

[Tylermarkham]

If you watch the Dunk media Ohio highlights and see no excitement then you just dont like Football. Youtube.

When you have 26 minutes - that ain’t excitement.


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[HERD111470]

Doc can’t win the big games or close games.  WVU,  NC State,  Boise,  Middle TN etc....But he wins 8 or 10 a year plus a bowl game so not to bad.  My biggest problem is with Hamrick.  There is no change in the game day atmosphere.  Our pregame and in game atmosphere is just boring.  No excitement anymore at all.    I’ve had season tickets and donated to the big green for over 15 years and now I’m rethinking my position for next year. 


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[Herdmeister]

Doc can’t win the big games or close games.  WVU,  NC State,  Boise,  Middle TN etc....But he wins 8 or 10 a year plus a bowl game so not to bad.  My biggest problem is with Hamrick.  There is no change in the game day atmosphere.  Our pregame and in game atmosphere is just boring.  No excitement anymore at all.    I’ve had season tickets and donated to the big green for over 15 years and now I’m rethinking my position for next year. 


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I totally understand you. I do hope, however, when you consider withholding financial support, which is your right, you don't stop contributing to the BG. Your donations there pay for scholarships for ALL Herd athletes.
I made the decision you are contemplation this year. I gave up my season tix but added another 10% to my BG contribution, upped my Tip Off contribution and plan a significant Herd Rises campaign 5 pledge.