Topic: Doc and Marshall

[herdorbust]

Doc can’t win the big games or close games.  WVU,  NC State,  Boise,  Middle TN etc....But he wins 8 or 10 a year plus a bowl game so not to bad.  My biggest problem is with Hamrick.  There is no change in the game day atmosphere.  Our pregame and in game atmosphere is just boring.  No excitement anymore at all.    I’ve had season tickets and donated to the big green for over 15 years and now I’m rethinking my position for next year. 


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You said it. No excitement anymore. That is the exact thing i hear from everyone i talk to.

[herdfifteen]

You said it. No excitement anymore. That is the exact thing i hear from everyone i talk to.

Remember you told us no one was interested yet 27+ thousand showed up for Ohio, and we will exceed 30 thousand for Cincinnati.

[MicDrass1]

Herd football is always awesome!  That will never change for me!!   8)

[Herdmeister]

Remember you told us no one was interested yet 27+ thousand showed up for Ohio, and we will exceed 30 thousand for Cincinnati.

[GoHerd2112]

I remember when it was rumored that Doc was in the running for the HC job at Pitt. This board pretty much lost their collective minds. Granted that was back in the Cato days and he was exciting to watch. I agree with those complaining Marshall football has lost that big play excitement factor.

[herdorbust]

Remember you told us no one was interested yet 27+ thousand showed up for Ohio, and we will exceed 30 thousand for Cincinnati.

Then why do i know so many long time season ticket holders that have quit going. Like every year, it starts off ok because people just want something to do. Then the numbers start tanking as the season goes by. If it is si exciting why is there a lot less in the second half?

[MicDrass1]

On offense we don’t have multiple wrs having big games on the same day.  Marcel Williams was totally undervalued bc every pass went to Brady.  On offense we feature just one wr or te these days. This year it’s Gaines.  We need a knife set just not a knife.

[herdfifteen]

Then why do i know so many long time season ticket holders that have quit going. Like every year, it starts off ok because people just want something to do. Then the numbers start tanking as the season goes by. If it is si exciting why is there a lot less in the second half?

Your dislike for Marshall football is obvious, you keep coming up with these scenarios which appear to be associated with your opinion as opposed to facts. Where I live  people are very excited about MU football, there are ten or so posters on here who would have you believe there is no interest, yet we will have 30+ thousand for Cincinnati. The attendance numbers discredit your theory, those are facts not hearsay.

[herdorbust]

Your dislike for Marshall football is obvious, you keep coming up with these scenarios which appear to be associated with your opinion as opposed to facts. Where I live  people are very excited about MU football, there are ten or so posters on here who would have you believe there is no interest, yet we will have 30+ thousand for Cincinnati. The attendance numbers discredit your your theory, those are facts not hearsay.

Wrong!!! I have always been a marshall football guy until about the last 15 years and snyder and doc ball.

[BHFIOHIO]

Over the past year, I have asked many Marshall fans if they are satisfied with Doc and the direction of the program.  Almost without fail the answer has been yes.  It dawned on me that us on Herdfans don't represent the average fan but mostly die-hard fans and expectations are higher.  However, I was still surprised at the results of my informal polling.

+1000

[HoPPy785]

To those that are afraid of the alternative. You have to keep in mind we don't have to stick with a bad coach as long as we did with Snyder. You hire a guy for cheap and fire him. I think you can tell after year 1 or 2 if the new coach has potential or it was a mistake. Truly good coaches will show promise day one, no matter who the players are.

[MicDrass1]

To those that are afraid of the alternative. You have to keep in mind we don't have to stick with a bad coach as long as we did with Snyder. You hire a guy for cheap and fire him. I think you can tell after year 1 or 2 if the new coach has potential or it was a mistake. Truly good coaches will show promise day one, no matter who the players are.

Yes should see improvement Day 1.  Program energy picks up first.

[Herdalum83]

Expect for three series in the second half, if you think the OU game was mediocre, boring football, I'm not sure you'll ever be a MU football fan again; and think you are just looking for excuses.  That was one great game at the Joan.

It was pretty mediocre defense LOL but it was far from a boring game.

[Herdalum83]

Most people who want to get rid of Doc assume we are going to get some hot shot that will take us back to what we think were the glory years.  Hiring a new coach is a crap shoot and the odds are against us.

So the thought process for many of you is then, let's be happy with being just ok, because we are afraid it could be worse and then we'd be bad?

Sorry, but that is a crappy mentality and one that keeps anyone or any program from having major accomplishments. I'm not even a fire Doc guy. I think we see how this season plays out first, but, you can't just continue to be happy with 8 wins and never want for more because you're afraid we'll end up getting no wins.

[BHFIOHIO]

It was nine last yr and a Bowl and double digits several times. BB finished 6th CUSA last yr with 2 all time scorers yet there is no hand wring going on. Thats talkin outa both sides of your jaws.

[DC01HERD]

I don't want the all time wins leader to be from West Virginia University. Besides all the other reasons that have been mentioned.

[herdorbust]

It was nine last yr and a Bowl and double digits several times. BB finished 6th CUSA last yr with 2 all time scorers yet there is no hand wring going on. Thats talkin outa both sides of your jaws.

And Danny has done something Dic will never do, get to the national stage. Like you said....8 wins 9 wins and of course one of the worst meltdowns ever at mu 3 wins. Yes 8-9 wins and the exact same quality bowl every year.  Be nice to expect something bigger and better. You ok with 1 conference championship in over 16 years?

[whf]

Do all you basketball only folks know what 1989 was....?

Doc's football program has NEVER been as bad as the time between 1989 and 2015, so let it be.  We'd still be well below obscurity in roundball had not one die hard Marshall graduate have decided to come back.  And he did it for a song and a dance financially.  We stunk in basketball for MANY, MANY years, so don't forget that; Doc has never stunk like those years in basketball.

[herdorbust]

Do all you basketball only folks know what 1989 was....?

Doc's football program has NEVER been as bad as the time between 1989 and 2015, so let it be.  We'd still be well below obscurity in roundball had not one die hard Marshall graduate have decided to come back.  And he did it for a song and a dance financially.  We stunk in basketball for MANY, MANY years, so don't forget that; Doc has never stunk like those years in basketball.

So you are saying the 90’s undefeated seasons, NCships, 5 mac titles, top 10 ranking, 2 heisman finalists and almost a 3rd is worse than now? Really?????

[Herdalum83]

It was nine last yr and a Bowl and double digits several times. BB finished 6th CUSA last yr with 2 all time scorers yet there is no hand wring going on. Thats talkin outa both sides of your jaws.

First, this thread has nothing to do with BB. This has to do with Football. Second, people are just gonna have to accept and understand a few things in this little pissing match that is going on with Basketball and Football.

1. Sports are a what have you done for me lately business. Just how it is. We haven't won a title since 2014 in football where basketball just had a championship the season before last.

2. Football is gonna always be held to a higher standard than basketball. It's the money sports, it's the sport with the largest fan base and Basketball was so absolutely terrible for 30 years before DD came here that the expectations are simply lower.

3. DD has accomplished something that NO OTHER basketball coach in Marshall history has accomplished and that's winning an NCAA tourney game. That buys you a pretty good amount of benefit of the doubt. So if you don't see any people up in arms because last year was a disappointment for basketball, that's a BIG reason why. You get that kind of leeway when you make history.

And let me be clear, I was disappointed with our basketball performance last year, I thought we should have been in the title hunt for the 3rd straight season and we simply weren't. We were embarrassed at Maryland, at UVA (Don't care how good they were we weren't even a little bit competitive) and worst of all we were ran out of the gym by a fellow conference mate in USM a year after I thought we had finally risen above those types of in-conference losses.

But, the basketball team did manage to get it together over the last 3rd of the season and finished the year strong winning 10 of its last 11 games. Still had a 20 win season for the 3rd year in a row. So while the season was a disappointment it wasn't a bad year, and honestly on par with a football season that had 9 wins and a bowl victory.

Now, if in five more years, all DD has done is win some meaningless post-season CIT tourney and 20 games with no other conference titles or NCAA appearances to show for it, then the same kind of settled into "good" but not "great" arguments will come from me and should come from others. But that just isn't the case right now.

Doc needs a title this year. That's all there is to it.

[herdorbust]

First, this thread has nothing to do with BB. This has to do with Football. Second, people are just gonna have to accept and understand a few things in this little pissing match that is going on with Basketball and Football.

1. Sports are a what have you done for me lately business. Just how it is. We haven't won a title since 2014 in football where basketball just had a championship the season before last.

2. Football is gonna always be held to a higher standard than basketball. It's the money sports, it's the sport with the largest fan base and Basketball was so absolutely terrible for 30 years before DD came here that the expectations are simply lower.

3. DD has accomplished something that NO OTHER basketball coach in Marshall history has accomplished and that's winning an NCAA tourney game. That buys you a pretty good amount of benefit of the doubt. So if you don't see any people up in arms because last year was a disappointment for basketball, that's a BIG reason why. You get that kind of leeway when you make history.

And let me be clear, I was disappointed with our basketball performance last year, I thought we should have been in the title hunt for the 3rd straight season and we simply weren't. We were embarrassed at Maryland, at UVA (Don't care how good they were we weren't even a little bit competitive) and worst of all we were ran out of the gym by a fellow conference mate in USM a year after I thought we had finally risen above those types of in-conference losses.

But, the basketball team did manage to get it together over the last 3rd of the season and finished the year strong winning 10 of its last 11 games. Still had a 20 win season for the 3rd year in a row. So while the season was a disappointment it wasn't a bad year, and honestly on par with a football season that had 9 wins and a bowl victory.

Now, if in five more years, all DD has done is win some meaningless post-season CIT tourney and 20 games with no other conference titles or NCAA appearances to show for it, then the same kind of settled into "good" but not "great" arguments will come from me and should come from others. But that just isn't the case right now.

Doc needs a title this year. That's all there is to it.

Great post!!!!

[The E-Man]

Do all you basketball only folks know what 1989 was....?

Doc's football program has NEVER been as bad as the time between 1989 and 2015, so let it be.  We'd still be well below obscurity in roundball had not one die hard Marshall graduate have decided to come back.  And he did it for a song and a dance financially.  We stunk in basketball for MANY, MANY years, so don't forget that; Doc has never stunk like those years in basketball.

You have a very poor memory. I don't know if that's on purpose or if you're seriously forgetting. Let me remind you, some of our worse and most embarrassing loses have came at the hands of Doc Holliday. We got waxed by WKU, ( 60-6), Akron, ( hung 65 points on us).. not to mention start up schools beating us like Charlotte) How about going (3-9, in the worst conference in all of college football D-1). I'm not even going to mention that team up north beating us down, it wasn't even close!

[HoPPy785]

The more I think about it, part of the problem is totally out of Doc's hands. If college football had more equality among P5 and G5 programs then we'd probably be happier. If we could get into the playoff by winning CUSA or maybe get an at large with a runner up finish, then double digit seasons and a championship every few years would sit much easier. Just being in the hunt would bring so much excitement (like it does in basketball)

We lost to Boise and boom the major goal is gone (in week 2!) no access bowl. The next goal would be conf championship, however finishing with conf title and double digit wins gets you the same bowl as going .500, so why even get pumped up. In Doc's most successful season ever, we got rewarded with playing NIU in the nobody gives a sh*t bowl. Doc can't control that.

It amazes me the G5 and lower level P5 schools haven't flipped out over this garbage system. It's so broken. So corrupt. Purdue and Wake have about as good a chance as us most years. I find myself more and more drawn to college basketball and NFL every season.

[herdorbust]

The more I think about it, part of the problem is totally out of Doc's hands. If college football had more equality among P5 and G5 programs then we'd probably be happier. If we could get into the playoff by winning CUSA or maybe get an at large with a runner up finish, then double digit seasons and a championship every few years would sit much easier. Just being in the hunt would bring so much excitement (like it does in basketball)

We lost to Boise and boom the major goal is gone (in week 2!) no access bowl. The next goal would be conf championship, however finishing with conf title and double digit wins gets you the same bowl as going .500, so why even get pumped up. In Doc's most successful season ever, we got rewarded with playing NIU in the nobody gives a sh*t bowl. Doc can't control that.

It amazes me the G5 and lower level P5 schools haven't flipped out over this garbage system. It's so broken. So corrupt. Purdue and Wake have about as good a chance as us most years. I find myself more and more drawn to college basketball and NFL every season.

Exactly. And its not all of Docs fault because the excitement is drained after the first loss because its the same bowl again every time. G5 needs to go to their own playoff system. That is the only way to bring back real excitement.

[lovetheherd2]

Most people who want to get rid of Doc assume we are going to get some hot shot that will take us back to what we think were the glory years.  Hiring a new coach is a crap shoot and the odds are against us.

They should also be ready to play D1AA for about 4 or 5 years, then upgrade to the MAC. Big wins, great records Decade of the Dynasty.

Dejavu all over again. Yes we can dominate. Those 1AA days were special.... To achieve those records we'll have to have similar opponents...