Topic: Doc and Marshall

[Scottyo614]

Thank you to the new posters in the thread and all who have posted. Good reads to catch up on.  For those who bring up excitement of game day, how much of that is opponent based? I miss the CUSA teams who went to the AAC and honestly the MAC teams. Star power drives fans to some degree. Our conference, in my opinion doesn’t have a ton. It’s also promoted poorly overall. Like Ferguson and the kid from ODU should of been plastered everywhere. Unless you were hardcore I’m sure a casual fan had no idea who they were.

[whf]

So you are saying the 90’s undefeated seasons, NCships, 5 mac titles, top 10 ranking, 2 heisman finalists and almost a 3rd is worse than now? Really?????

You keep on trying, but you know darn good and well I was talking about the obscurity of basketball for those oh so many decades.  You can claim your own story, but you can't change the truth.

[herdorbust]

You keep on trying, but you know darn good and well I was talking about the obscurity of basketball for those oh so many decades.  You can claim your own story, but you can't change the truth.

Well who said basketball was better from 1989-2015? I sure as heck never did. Basketball was pathetic most of those years. And it may surprise you, but i enjoyed football much more from 89-2002. You are the one making up stuff because i never claimed basketball was better then. It was much much worse.

[whf]

I said it was a debacle for all those years.............it sucked. But many folks stayed with it because it was Marshall; simply because it was Marshall basketball.

[herdorbust]

I said it was a debacle for all those years.............it sucked. But many folks stayed with it because it was Marshall; simply because it was Marshall basketball.

Not me. I didnt go to a few games and left at halftime at a few others. When you are bored and feel like its not getting better then sometimes its hard to be there. I was like that with marshall basketball. I think EMan had a very good theory? Maybe it isnt all Doc. Maybe its just because you know there is nothing to play for nationally? Access bowl being in CUSA is slim to zero. So you have one goal and that is to go to the same type bowl every year. CUSA title is good but honestly nobody cares outside CUSA. I got to thinking....if we did have a G5 playoff i would probably be pumped all year for Marshall football because you could stay engaged for a big payoff. It would just bring so much more excitement IMO. But after EMan said that it got me thinking. That is the biggest thing with me, not really Doc. Its just hard to get excited when you are in the only sport that doesnt have a playoff or give you a chance. Its crazy!!!!

[elginherd]

Not me. I didnt go to a few games and left at halftime at a few others. When you are bored and feel like its not getting better then sometimes its hard to be there. I was like that with marshall basketball. I think EMan had a very good theory? Maybe it isnt all Doc. Maybe its just because you know there is nothing to play for nationally? Access bowl being in CUSA is slim to zero. So you have one goal and that is to go to the same type bowl every year. CUSA title is good but honestly nobody cares outside CUSA. I got to thinking....if we did have a G5 playoff i would probably be pumped all year for Marshall football because you could stay engaged for a big payoff. It would just bring so much more excitement IMO. But after EMan said that it got me thinking. That is the biggest thing with me, not really Doc. Its just hard to get excited when you are in the only sport that doesnt have a playoff or give you a chance. Its crazy!!!!

Great points...
AFA as your point about 'nobody cares outside the CUSA', I am not sure about how many fans WITHIN the CUSA gives a damn about the CUSA or how many "fans" the various CUSA members have.

[MicDrass1]

We have had good men’s b-ball teams in the last 20 years.  I can recall beating ooc teams like wake, wv , Georgia.  Herrions Herd teams with Kane and Pitts were really good and deserved an at large bid to the ncaa.  They would have been very very dangerous.

[goherd24]

We have had good men’s b-ball teams in the last 20 years.  I can recall beating ooc teams like wake, wv , Georgia.  Herrions Herd teams with Kane and Pitts were really good and deserved an at large bid to the ncaa.  They would have been very very dangerous.

There were several games we had 7-8k+ in the Cam with those teams and it was awesome with the glow sticks during the intro. Basketball was very good, not because of Herrion obviously, but because we had some of the most talented players we've ever had on 1 team. Whiteside (one year), Pitts, Pena, Shaq Johnson, Kane, Tinnon, and a hell of a supporting cast. You give that team to Danny and see what happens. Keep in mind in thos days, the title game ran through Memphis, and they were a powerhouse. We did manage to win a game or two vs them in the regular season during those years, at least one win. Also our last WV win was on my birthday i think in 2011? That was a game I'll never forget, we were up 20+ and the refs were calling no touch fouls when WVU was taking 3s, etc. It was the biggest hack job officiating i ever saw

[whf]

Herrion certainly did start a recovery, and had good teams...

I agree 100% that C-USA, with it's far-strung opponents, is the major problem with MU football today. When we win folks aren't even excited about the win unless it is one of only a few teams.  We get more excited about the OOC than the league; which I think would always be that way if you only see the competition as being a national event.

I don't have any answers, nor do most of us on here. But I stay enthused when the games start and I'm in the Joan; regardless of who the opponent is.  It's Marshall playing in green. Those players don't choose who they play, they choose to play for Marshall. So I'll do my best to stay excited for them, with the team and the school.  That is the same approach I used in basketball for 30 years.

[herdorbust]

Herrion certainly did start a recovery, and had good teams...

I agree 100% that C-USA, with it's far-strung opponents, is the major problem with MU football today. When we win folks aren't even excited about the win unless it is one of only a few teams.  We get more excited about the OOC than the league; which I think would always be that way if you only see the competition as being a national event.

I don't have any answers, nor do most of us on here. But I stay enthused when the games start and I'm in the Joan; regardless of who the opponent is.  It's Marshall playing in green. Those players don't choose who they play, they choose to play for Marshall. So I'll do my best to stay excited for them, with the team and the school.  That is the same approach I used in basketball for 30 years.

Playoff is what it will take IMO. It makes the season more exciting and every single game takes on a bigger importance. I remember even in the 80’s how the talk was, if we win the next 2 games will we make the playoffs? The 87 team was a team that came out of nowhere and reached the NC game. I want to see the best of the G5 settled on the field and not by speculation. The excitement would be much bigger if you were shooting to get into a G5 playoff of say 8 teams at the end of the year.

[whf]

Playoff is what it will take IMO. It makes the season more exciting and every single game takes on a bigger importance. I remember even in the 80’s how the talk was, if we win the next 2 games will we make the playoffs? The 87 team was a team that came out of nowhere and reached the NC game. I want to see the best of the G5 settled on the field and not by speculation. The excitement would be much bigger if you were shooting to get into a G5 playoff of say 8 teams at the end of the year.

Would love to see a G5 promotion for attention on TV and a play-off. But I also think in the interim we can all get more excitement back by just giving the C-USA opponents more respect.  If we don't respect them, how do we ever expect others too?

Some way folks have to get excited about playing FAU on Friday night in Ft. Lauderdale; FIU the last game of the year, ODU for Homecoming, and a pissing match each year with WKU.  We have to feel that Rice had a legitimate chance against Baylor, and that beating them is still a solid win.  The competition is set for a LONG while.

One last thought, sometimes I think the best conference realignment that could happen to us in the next decade is us and either UAB or USM becoming SunBelt teams...

[herdcase]

"We lost to Boise and boom the major goal is gone (in week 2!) no access bowl. The next goal would be conf championship, however finishing with conf title and double digit wins gets you the same bowl as going .500, so why even get pumped up. In Doc's most successful season ever, we got rewarded with playing NIU in the nobody gives a sh*t bowl. Doc can't control that.
It amazes me the G5 and lower level P5 schools haven't flipped out over this garbage system. It's so broken. So corrupt. Purdue and Wake have about as good a chance as us most years."

Totally agree. It never ceases to amaze me why the g5 teams have been willing to accept this complete inequity & monopolization, and not take the matter to court. Maybe a lawyer on the board could shed some light on the subject. If left to stand, the ruination & collapse of college football is right around the corner!

[puma]

The AAC and MWC seem to have a pretty good thing going. They duke it out every year for the Access Bowl and have 3 or 4 P5 match-ups each during bowl season. It's C-USA/MAC/Sunbelt who have serious problems in this system.

And it seems to be Marshall holding Marshall back when it comes to making an NY6 run. NC State, Pitt, and Virginia Tech aren't P5 juggernauts. They should be completely winnable games for a top G5 team. Plus, not playing money/bodybag games and having one of the easiest roads to a conference championship games should be Doc's favor. But it isn't.

[herdorbust]

"We lost to Boise and boom the major goal is gone (in week 2!) no access bowl. The next goal would be conf championship, however finishing with conf title and double digit wins gets you the same bowl as going .500, so why even get pumped up. In Doc's most successful season ever, we got rewarded with playing NIU in the nobody gives a sh*t bowl. Doc can't control that.
It amazes me the G5 and lower level P5 schools haven't flipped out over this garbage system. It's so broken. So corrupt. Purdue and Wake have about as good a chance as us most years."

Totally agree. It never ceases to amaze me why the g5 teams have been willing to accept this complete inequity & monopolization, and not take the matter to court. Maybe a lawyer on the board could shed some light on the subject. If left to stand, the ruination & collapse of college football is right around the corner!

This is exactly my same thoughts and it isnt all Doc’s fault. If there was a G5 playoff that Boise loss would be long gone in our minds. Because we would be pumped about just winning and getting to the playoffs where we could show Boise we are the real champs. Lets say marshall, ucf, cincy, boise, appy st, troy, memphis and say a houston were heading into a 8 team playoff. You cant tell me that wouldnt be more exciting than the bowls we go to. Because you win a game and you move on to the next round to prove who is the best of all G5 teams on the field, the way it should be. I would be super pumped for marshall football and i mean super pumped.

[ru4mu2]

This is exactly my same thoughts and it isnt all Doc’s fault. If there was a G5 playoff that Boise loss would be long gone in our minds. Because we would be pumped about just winning and getting to the playoffs where we could show Boise we are the real champs. Lets say marshall, ucf, cincy, boise, appy st, troy, memphis and say a houston were heading into a 8 team playoff. You cant tell me that wouldnt be more exciting than the bowls we go to. Because you win a game and you move on to the next round to prove who is the best of all G5 teams on the field, the way it should be. I would be super pumped for marshall football and i mean super pumped.

Would love to see G5 go to a playoff system.

[herdfan129]

WHAT??? No to a G5 playoff.

YES to the top G5 being guaranteed a spot in the real FBS playoff of 8 teams.

[elginherd]

WHAT??? No to a G5 playoff.

YES to the top G5 being guaranteed a spot in the real FBS playoff of 8 teams.

The odds of a guaranteed spot for a G5 team are long, even with 8 teams.

[herdfan129]

The odds of a guaranteed spot for a G5 team are long, even with 8 teams.

Not really. It's definitely moving in that direction.

[HoPPy785]

WHAT??? No to a G5 playoff.

YES to the top G5 being guaranteed a spot in the real FBS playoff of 8 teams.

I'd take all conferences, including G5, champs get guaranteed spot in a real playoff, or a G5 playoff with winner getting guaranteed spot in a playoff.

[Herdman77]

According to coaches on the hot seat dot com, Doc Holliday has one of the safest seats in all of college football. #116 out of 130.

http://www.coacheshotseat.com/CoachesHotSeatRanking.htm

[goherd24]

Absolutely no to being officially relegated to a lower than top class for MU football. If we become a new 1-AA, i simply will lose interest and become a basketball herd fan only. I definitely believe the 8 team playoff will include G5 access, as it should. And then, then we have the hope and dream, of making it one day. I could give a %^&* less who wins the special olympics

[MUHERD1]

The AAC and MWC seem to have a pretty good thing going. They duke it out every year for the Access Bowl and have 3 or 4 P5 match-ups each during bowl season. It's C-USA/MAC/Sunbelt who have serious problems in this system.

And it seems to be Marshall holding Marshall back when it comes to making an NY6 run. NC State, Pitt, and Virginia Tech aren't P5 juggernauts. They should be completely winnable games for a top G5 team. Plus, not playing money/bodybag games and having one of the easiest roads to a conference championship games should be Doc's favor. But it isn't.

This is my biggest problem with Doc. We aren’t relevant in the G5 for the access bowl. That should be the goal every year and we’ve had great opportunities to get there by playing in a horrific conference and mediocre P5 teams and we’ve failed every single time. That and the unforgivable losses at home like Akron and Charlotte. Those 2 are fireable offenses right there.

Some of y’all can be scared of having to look for a new coach every few years but I’m not. I’d much rather have higher highs(access bowl) and lower lows(bad hires) than just carry on with this 8 wins against nobody every year and hoping we just win the East.

[elginherd]

Absolutely no to being officially relegated to a lower than top class for MU football. If we become a new 1-AA, i simply will lose interest and become a basketball herd fan only. I definitely believe the 8 team playoff will include G5 access, as it should. And then, then we have the hope and dream, of making it one day. I could give a %^&* less who wins the special olympics

I agree that it should, but I have no confidence whatsoever that it would. Plus I have my doubts whether the CUSA's league champ would ever be included in the 8th spot. Recall that in 2014 it was not going be a lock that an undefeated Herd would be picked for the access game over a 2 loss BSU. Currently there is a large difference in the MWC & AAC and the bottom 3 (SB, MAC & CUSA) in terms of perception. And IMO, the difference is huge.

The other reason why I'm skeptical is that in formulating both the corrupt BCS 'system' & the current playoff system the members of the P5 actively sought to exclude the G5 members. That will happen again in implementing a new system. IF a G5 team is included, that team is more than likely to come from the MWC or the AAC or (the way it seems to be trending) the SB.

[MicDrass1]

Cusa football can’t do squat against P5s.  Blown out all the time.   Damn coaches get better players.