Topic: Tim Cramsey threw it deep with the game on the line, twice now

[Johnnyherd]

3 and 16, Grant Wells chucks it 45 yards and the pass sailed out of bounds, zero chance of a completion, this week.  Last week, he chucks it to the endzone when we needed like 6 yards. 

The absolutely lowest percentage play you could call.  Lord knows when the game is on the line, and its possibly the last time you may have the ball, you need to call the play with the lowest probability of getting the first down.   

Is it bravado, gunslinger, riverboat gambler thinking or what? Go home a big winner or go home a loser?

[whf]

3 and 16, Grant Wells chucks it 45 yards and the pass sailed out of bounds, zero chance of a completion, this week.  Last week, he chucks it to the endzone when we needed like 6 yards. 

The absolutely lowest percentage play you could call.  Lord knows when the game is on the line, and its possibly the last time you may have the ball, you need to call the play with the lowest probability of getting the first down.   

Is it bravado, gunslinger, riverboat gambler thinking or what? Go big or go home a loser?

There is a difference in being wise with the clock and playing boring football.  We need some "being wise with the clock" attitude with this offense. Offense and Defense are not unilateral units.

[herdfan129]

Cramsey will never get us to where we want to go. He's proven that over the last few years. If Huff wants to take the next step then he will find a new OC this off-season.

[herd2win]

Huffs downfall will be his choice in coaches.  We gave 2 games away because of coaching not talent.  Under Doc this team would still probably be 2-2 and in much more boring fashion.  I like Huffs enthusiasm but decisions down the stretch have cost us.

These are hard losses because sitting 4-0 likely to be ranked and then keep it going through CUSA we are likely to be pushing a top 10 ranking.

We can win out now and not be ranked. 

[MidlandKnight]

Spot on Johnny,

This is one of the reasons I am not a fan of Cramsey. Not only has he done this in the past two games, but did this the last TWO years. He cannot call a game based on the situation. As I said before Huff really needs to take this weekend and evaluate his coaches, plus himself.

[herdfifteen]

Huffs downfall will be his choice in coaches.  We gave 2 games away because of coaching not talent.  Under Doc this team would still probably be 2-2 and in much more boring fashion.  I like Huffs enthusiasm but decisions down the stretch have cost us.

These are hard losses because sitting 4-0 likely to be ranked and then keep it going through CUSA we are likely to be pushing a top 10 ranking.

We can win out now and not be ranked. 

These two losses arguably came against two of the three best teams on our schedule and should have been wins, sugar coating that will not work. Winning out will not have the same meaning, many people questioned the selection of coaches prior to the beginning of the season and Huff may get a free pass early, but he will need to make changes.

[Herdalum83]

3 and 16, Grant Wells chucks it 45 yards and the pass sailed out of bounds, zero chance of a completion, this week.  Last week, he chucks it to the endzone when we needed like 6 yards. 

The absolutely lowest percentage play you could call.  Lord knows when the game is on the line, and its possibly the last time you may have the ball, you need to call the play with the lowest probability of getting the first down.   

Is it bravado, gunslinger, riverboat gambler thinking or what? Go home a big winner or go home a loser?

There were two plays that frustrated me more than anything against App State. 1. Was the 3rd and 15 where our defense gave up a 17 yard run for a first down. Appy State was conceding that drive, they did a safe handoff just to see what they could get and then punt the football, but their safe handoff turned into a first down, and then they proceeded to go down the field and score. That was huge momentum-wise.

The other was the play you mentioned above. Yes, it was 3rd and 16 but where we were on the field could have been 4 down territory if you 12 yards or so. We didn't have to call a play to go for the home run, we just needed something positive and then see where we were at and if we felt like rolling the dice on 4th. Instead, we had that ridiculous play call, punted it away, and let App come back on the field to dog walk our defense.

[2xBison]

I see a lot of fire the DC and fire the OC posts on both boards.  This is the staff Huff chose so?..good or bad it?s on him.


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[whf]

I have never got the DC and OC "Fire" issues. The Head Coach decides the philosophy and can easily set the game strategy, particularly the matters that mix the o and d.  If Huff wasn't OK with that Guidry and Cramsey are doing, he'd stop it; change it.

The positions are called coordinators, not philosophy setters.  They, I'm sure, have leeway, but they do not set the philosophy of the game without the approval of the head coach; otherwise why would a head coach be needed.

[Toro Toro Taxi]

These are hard losses because sitting 4-0 likely to be ranked and then keep it going through CUSA we are likely to be pushing a top 10 ranking.

We can win out now and not be ranked.

I believe our SOS is something like 109th or so , even if we went undefeated , it would be a stretch to be pushing a top10 ranking , top 25 ? possibly but 10 , no chance.

[Johnnyherd]

I have never got the DC and OC "Fire" issues. The Head Coach decides the philosophy and can easily set the game strategy, particularly the matters that mix the o and d.  If Huff wasn't OK with that Guidry and Cramsey are doing, he'd stop it; change it.

The positions are called coordinators, not philosophy setters.  They, I'm sure, have leeway, but they do not set the philosophy of the game without the approval of the head coach; otherwise why would a head coach be needed.

So you think the fact that we have all these Marshall Alums are coaches now and we kept the OC that was already in place is just a coincidence?   And that Huff handpicked them? 

Huff didn?t pick these coaches.   Doc didn?t choose to fire Legg or hire Cramsey.

[svherd]

If we don?t get the desired results, Huff will need to fire some coaches. Cramsey, Guidry and the secondary coach should be first on the list.

[whf]

So you think the fact that we have all these Marshall Alums are coaches now and we kept the OC that was already in place is just a coincidence?   And that Huff handpicked them? 

Huff didn?t pick these coaches.   Doc didn?t choose to fire Legg or hire Cramsey.

Not sure what, or how, this relates to my post; but thanks. Who did the hiring and firing In Your Opinion?

[Johnnyherd]

Not sure what, or how, this relates to my post; but thanks. Who did the hiring and firing In Your Opinion?

You were saying, the head coach decides everything that happens and has absolute control and can change anything he wants at anytime. 

I don?t think this coaching staff was his choice to begin with so it may not be just that easy to step in a head coaching job with a OC that?s already in place and a DC he?s never worked with and control every aspect of offense and defense.

[whf]

You were saying, the head coach decides everything that happens and has absolute control and can change anything he wants at anytime. 

I don?t think this coaching staff was his choice to begin with so it may not be just that easy to step in a head coaching job with a OC that?s already in place and a DC he?s never worked with and control every aspect of offense and defense.

Thanks,  I didn't say he decides everything that happens, I said he sets the philosophy and can step in at any time and call whatever he wants.  And I don't think that if Huff is the guy we think was hired would have a problem overriding anyone on his staff. If so, wrong hire IMHO.

[MUonium]

You were saying, the head coach decides everything that happens and has absolute control and can change anything he wants at anytime. 

I don?t think this coaching staff was his choice to begin with so it may not be just that easy to step in a head coaching job with a OC that?s already in place and a DC he?s never worked with and control every aspect of offense and defense.

then who chose this coaching staff?

[goherd24]

DC hiring was a miss. That's clear.

Cramsey, for what it's worth, is moving the ball and scoring points but he needs to get better in the redzone, use the middle of the field, use the TE and do some boot legs etc. Just get better in the redzone. Not run, run, fade incomplete, fieldgoal.

I fully expect us to run the table in this shitty league as we should but it won't change the fact that we missed our chance to do anything worthwhile this season.

Next season we have a nice attainable win against notre dame, and home against Appy, but the rest of schedule is %^&*. But that Notre dame game could be huge for us.

[The E-Man]

DC hiring was a miss. That's clear.

Cramsey, for what it's worth, is moving the ball and scoring points but he needs to get better in the redzone, use the middle of the field, use the TE and do some boot legs etc. Just get better in the redzone. Not run, run, fade incomplete, fieldgoal.

I fully expect us to run the table in this %^&*ty league as we should but it won't change the fact that we missed our chance to do anything worthwhile this season.

Next season we have a nice attainable win against Notre Dame, and home against Appy, but the rest of schedule is %^&*. But that Notre dame game could be huge for us.

Damn, I forgot about Notre Dame. We need to finish this season strong and go undefeated the rest of the way out bowl game included.. If that happen and Huff recruits some defense and a few more offensive lineman and skill players, the stars might align for us after all.. (BTW goherd24, I hope you're feeling much better from Covid).. Get well brother!

[Johnnyherd]

then who chose this coaching staff?

Listen, I?m not privileged to information from the people that pull the strings.  I
Just look at the big picture.

So look what happen

So all of a sudden in very short order, President packs his bags, AD packs his bags, Head coach packs his bags and a new coach is hired and a bunch of coaches with Marshall ties, that I can?t see how they would know Huff, are hired.

Complete revolutions don?t usually happen by accident.  People that plan and execute coupe de taus a grab power like this usually don?t stop at the head coach position.

[herd2win]

Johnny nailed it?the entire MU situation is currently incestuous.  Having DAntoni, Pennington I. T he BOG, the firing of Doc and Hamrick and replacements hand picked, the assistant coaches all MU ties, keeping Kramsey and bringing back Legg.


This has a very small time feel about it.

[elginherd]

Regarding the OP:
Cramsey didn't throw those passes.
Although I don't have the all 22 video to verify what I'm going to say: Wells in all probablity had much higher precentage options available.

[coalherd]

Spot on Johnny,

This is one of the reasons I am not a fan of Cramsey. Not only has he done this in the past two games, but did this the last TWO years. He cannot call a game based on the situation. As I said before Huff really needs to take this weekend and evaluate his coaches, plus himself.

Plus, our passing O under Cramsey seemingly utilizes only about 20% of the whole field.

If you took, say as an analyst on the football staff, a print out of the football field and plotted every Herd pass as to where it went, I'll bet it comes out close to what I am saying. Similar to a basketball staff taking a layout of the basketball court and plotting every shot taken during the game, in the paint, outside, outside the 3pt line, etc.  MU, IMO, throws too many passes, long outs, etc., to the sideline.  Difficult to complete, makes the sideline another "defender", etc.  Same down in the red zone, too many difficult "fade" passes, etc., to the end zone corners.

[MUther]

Listen, I?m not privileged to information from the people that pull the strings.  I
Just look at the big picture.

So look what happen

So all of a sudden in very short order, President packs his bags, AD packs his bags, Head coach packs his bags and a new coach is hired and a bunch of coaches with Marshall ties, that I can?t see how they would know Huff, are hired.

Complete revolutions don?t usually happen by accident.  People that plan and execute coupe de taus a grab power like this usually don?t stop at the head coach position.

Huff knows Cramsey.  Has said as much.  Chose to keep him because of it.  I'm sure many of the other coaches have similar ties or a knows a guy that knows a guy kind of attachment.  Huff is new.  He will have relied on recommendations for specific positions.  He hasn't developed his own coaching style or knows who he needs to lead it.  He may have been mislead somewhat by their capabilities but they were his decisions.

This isn't an offense or defense problem.  This is a tempo problem.  Not knowing when to throw the changeup is the problem.  Need to slow it down once the lead is in hand and keep the defense off the field and the ball out of the opponents hands.  Meanwhile everyone is arguing about whether it's O or D.    This is D'antoni basketball.  You score fast and the others guys get a lot of possessions and generally have way more points than usual.  But if you slam on the breaks and play hold possession ball with the lead then the other team is the one having to adjust,  burning timeouts,  and making mistakes in the urgency. 

We still need to work toward the endzone and not play not to lose ball.  But we need to do it with RBs instead of wideouts in the 4th quarter and wear them out.  Instead of them doing that to us.

[herdorbust]

Johnny nailed it?the entire MU situation is currently incestuous.  Having DAntoni, Pennington I. T he BOG, the firing of Doc and Hamrick and replacements hand picked, the assistant coaches all MU ties, keeping Kramsey and bringing back Legg.


This has a very small time feel about it.

Get over your buddy.

[MicDrass1]

Huff knows Cramsey.  Has said as much.  Chose to keep him because of it.  I'm sure many of the other coaches have similar ties or a knows a guy that knows a guy kind of attachment.  Huff is new.  He will have relied on recommendations for specific positions.  He hasn't developed his own coaching style or knows who he needs to lead it.  He may have been mislead somewhat by their capabilities but they were his decisions.

This isn't an offense or defense problem.  This is a tempo problem.  Not knowing when to throw the changeup is the problem.  Need to slow it down once the lead is in hand and keep the defense off the field and the ball out of the opponents hands.  Meanwhile everyone is arguing about whether it's O or D.    This is D'antoni basketball.  You score fast and the others guys get a lot of possessions and generally have way more points than usual.  But if you slam on the breaks and play hold possession ball with the lead then the other team is the one having to adjust,  burning timeouts,  and making mistakes in the urgency. 

We still need to work toward the endzone and not play not to lose ball.  But we need to do it with RBs instead of wideouts in the 4th quarter and wear them out.  Instead of them doing that to us.

Agree tempo problem at certain points of the game.  Also, a player ability problem.  Not enough good players at certain positions.  So you know the people backing them up are even less talented.  Fix the tempo now and player talent physicality and mentality through recruiting.  I am not a Cramsey or Legg fan but Cramsey looks a lot better this year than any other year here.  That is the Charles Huff effect!  Now Huff has to be sure he has the right recruiters and assistant coaches in place.  Huff can take over play calling duties if needed.