Topic: Rush defense rank

[banker]

2013 - 57
2014 - 53
2015 - 64
2016 - 89
2017 - 19
2018 - 8
2019 - 56
2020 - 4
2021 - 119

So in the last 8 complete seasons we have finished in the bottom half of FBS one time, in the dismal 2016 season.  People say we are off this year because we lost two really good starters in the front 7. Well, we?ve had a lot of good players leave in the last 8 years and had a lot less returning.   I don?t think Beckett and Hodge are the difference between #4 and #119.

[herd2win]

I thought Lambert was a good defensive coach.  I also understand why Huff would not want him as he was also considered for the HC job.  I am curious to see if Huff is willing to let go friends if they don?t work out.

Offense also needs to be able to run clock when needed to help the defense out.  They have been gassed in the last 2 4h quarters.

[goherd24]

This is 100% on a bad DC. Being a bit tired might drop us into the 40s-50s again. Not one of the worst defenses in the nation. 

[muherd34]

2013 - 57
2014 - 53
2015 - 64
2016 - 89
2017 - 19
2018 - 8
2019 - 56
2020 - 4
2021 - 119

So in the last 8 complete seasons we have finished in the bottom half of FBS one time, in the dismal 2016 season.  People say we are off this year because we lost two really good starters in the front 7. Well, we?ve had a lot of good players leave in the last 8 years and had a lot less returning.   I don?t think Beckett and Hodge are the difference between #4 and #119.

Eye popping numbers.  It's a combination imo of loss of talent, new fast paced offense and poor coaching.  Can't constantly put a poor defense on the field and not expect some yards to be ran up on you.  Must find a happy medium.  Love the offense, but it also has to all make sense.   We definitely have a very young head coach and I believe he will learn from his mistakes.  Maybe all this works if we have the players to win one on one matches.  Go HUFF AND HERD

[overherd1]

Big difference for sure.  Also one of our opponents was identical to last year, which had a big difference in rush yards.  I'm sure some of it is the faster offense.  But the difference is way too much.  Let's hope we can do better in the coming weeks.  We'll see what the coaches do.  I would hope big improvement this week!

[THECHAMPISHERE]

A little concerning but only 33% of the data for 2021 is in folks. Let's see where we finish.

[svherd]

Sadly, Huff may need to look at replacing his DC, OC and secondary coach after this year. Just not sold on Cramsey as OC. Heck at this point, if we can salvage 8-4 I would be OK with that.  :(

[Green Dog]

I knew we were bad but not that bad.

Simply take away the missed tackles and we probably go up 20+ spots.
We seem to have guys in position much of time. We just can not tackle.

[herdfan129]

Would be interesting to see how many plays the other teams ran against us each of those seasons.

[HerdEcon]

I don't buy the we lost 2 of the top three best tacklers from the team argument as to why the defense is underperforming this season.  That arguments ignores the fact that all the players we lost on defense were replaced by other players.  We didn't lose 100% of those players performance, only a fraction of their performance.  The players that replaced them had game experience at the end of last season. and make tackles and big plays themselves.

I would come closer to attributing some of the difference in rushing defense to the fact that we played Navy, a team that is built around the run.  First time in several years Marshall has played a running team like Navy.  Navy racked up 337 yards rushing in that game.  Navy put up over 100 more yards rushing than did ECU or Appy State and nearly 100 more yards rushing than NCCU.

I think a more sobering stat is that through the first 4 games Marshall opponents W/L records are:
Navy 0-3
NCCU 2-2 FCS opponent with wins over Alcorn State (2-2) and Winston-Salem State Univ. (0-2) a Div. II school
ECU 2-2 with wins over Marshall and Charleston Southern (a 1-2 FCS school)
APP State 3-1 with wins over ECU, Marshall and Elon.  Their close loss was to a 2-2 Miami team that is currently ranked 22 but most likely will not be ranked by the end of the season.   

APP State is the only opponent Marshall has played with evidence of a football pulse at this point in the season. 

A lot of posters said prior to the start of the season that we would know a lot about coach Huff and this Marshall team after the first 4 games.  So what have we learned about coach Huff and this team after 4 games?

[HoPPy785]

I agree that the DC is concerning but also will wait and see how we do once the season is over. I don't understand why some are mad at Cramsey. We have a top 5 offense statically, what more do you want from your OC? I can understand the frustration of not allowing it to slow down at times but I'm sure that's the direction Huff has asked him to go.

[luckytoes99]

Watch the final drive by APPY when we ran a 4-3 defense and Appy was using five lineman and a H-back. Basically there were 6 players to block our 7. We knew they were going to run. The first two plays, the linebacker whose responsibility was to fill the hole didn?t react until the ball carrier was already across the line of scrimmage. Not only was he blocked downfield but he also sealed off the other 2 linebackers from making a tackle. The other linebackers reaction time was also slow.

Is that coaching or do we have linebackers who don?t know how to read and defend a straight run? Will we see a better performance the next time the same situation arises? I hope so. No way should we have given up long runs on that last drive.

[herd2win]

I agree that the DC is concerning but also will wait and see how we do once the season is over. I don't understand why some are mad at Cramsey. We have a top 5 offense statically, what more do you want from your OC? I can understand the frustration of not allowing it to slow down at times but I'm sure that's the direction Huff has asked him to go.

We are not scoring in the red zone and not scoring in the 4th quarter.  We have been out scored in the last 2 games 31-0 in the 4th quarter.

[coalherd]

2013 - 57
2014 - 53
2015 - 64
2016 - 89
2017 - 19
2018 - 8
2019 - 56
2020 - 4
2021 - 119

So in the last 8 complete seasons we have finished in the bottom half of FBS one time, in the dismal 2016 season.  People say we are off this year because we lost two really good starters in the front 7. Well, we?ve had a lot of good players leave in the last 8 years and had a lot less returning.   I don?t think Beckett and Hodge are the difference between #4 and #119.

Agree, banker.  More than just 2 players involved in going from near the top of the heap to a bottom feeder, IMO!!

[coalherd]

A Third of the regular season gone.  So what can we assess from our OOC play?  Well, first, we haven't exactly played a "killer schedule" of OOC foes; no Power team on that schedule.  A telling factor to me is that while ECU totally dominated us in the 4th Quarter to come from behind to snatch a victory, the Pirates went SCORELESS in the 4th Quarter against FCS Charleston Southern!!  Zip, Zero, Nada!  For future reference, Huff needs to put the phone # of Charleston Southern's DC on speed dial!!

[gochneaur645]

Yards per game really isn't the best metric because it doesn't account for our wildly increased tempo resulting in more possessions for both teams, and it doesn't account for playing a team in Navy that runs every play (and a pretty run heavy App State).

Yards per rushing attempt is a better indicator and we're #88 in that. Still not good obviously, but I think it better reflects where we're at.

That 90 yard run by ECU where we got a little too aggressive trying to stop a 3rd and 2 is also skewing the stats early in the season. Take that play away and we held them to a dominant 2.0 yards per carry instead of 4.2.

[HoPPy785]

We are not scoring in the red zone and not scoring in the 4th quarter.  We have been out scored in the last 2 games 31-0 in the 4th quarter.

I'd argue those are fixable issues and not fireable problems considering the offense ranks so highly otherwise. Just need to tweak some things and the players need to make key plays.

[herdfan129]

I agree that the DC is concerning but also will wait and see how we do once the season is over. I don't understand why some are mad at Cramsey. We have a top 5 offense statically, what more do you want from your OC? I can understand the frustration of not allowing it to slow down at times but I'm sure that's the direction Huff has asked him to go.

Because stats don't tell the whole story....Cramsey sucks at situational awareness.

[herdfan129]

I'd argue those are fixable issues and not fireable problems considering the offense ranks so highly otherwise. Just need to tweak some things and the players need to make key plays.

Same stuff for what...three years now? He either fixes it or he doesn't, one thing is for sure "we gotta get that fixed."

[yogiherd]

Watch the final drive by APPY when we ran a 4-3 defense and Appy was using five lineman and a H-back. Basically there were 6 players to block our 7. We knew they were going to run. The first two plays, the linebacker whose responsibility was to fill the hole didn?t react until the ball carrier was already across the line of scrimmage. Not only was he blocked downfield but he also sealed off the other 2 linebackers from making a tackle. The other linebackers reaction time was also slow.

Is that coaching or do we have linebackers who don?t know how to read and defend a straight run? Will we see a better performance the next time the same situation arises? I hope so. No way should we have given up long runs on that last drive.

The system this year with a new D-CORD is probably different from last year's. The players are learning new terminology and it seems they are thinking instead of reacting. In the first two games they were mistakes on coverage and etc. but the opponents didn't make the plays.  Learning what players to cover in certain blitz packages and etc. they might pick last year's assignment for them and boom a blown cover and wide oper or wrong gap on run blitz and such. Offense keep the same Co-ORD so except for some new plays everything remained the same
 

[banker]

Let?s look at it this way. Below is the rushing yards we gave up to each opponent and their average rush yards per game not including our game. So basically what we gave them versus what everyone else has given them.

Team - against us - average against other opponents

Appy - 283 - 180
ECU - 176 - 114
Navy - 337 - 113
Total - 796 - 407

So we have given up 389 more yards than those three teams have averaged against their other opponents.  That?s 130 yards per game above average.  You can?t blame the offense for the defense not being able to get off the field.  You can?t say ?well we did good except for that one or two plays? unless you go back and subtract the one or two big plays from every game they play.

[Thundering In MD]

I like Huff, but someone needs to address that 115 drop.

[goherd24]

Let?s look at it this way. Below is the rushing yards we gave up to each opponent and their average rush yards per game not including our game. So basically what we gave them versus what everyone else has given them.

Team - against us - average against other opponents

Appy - 283 - 180
ECU - 176 - 114
Navy - 337 - 113
Total - 796 - 407

So we have given up 389 more yards than those three teams have averaged against their other opponents.  That?s 130 yards per game above average.  You can?t blame the offense for the defense not being able to get off the field.  You can?t say ?well we did good except for that one or two plays? unless you go back and subtract the one or two big plays from every game they play.

You're correct. If we have lambert, we cut those numbers in half at worst, and probably are still a top 30 unit defensively. I was scared to death of lambert but he proved he is a great defensive coach. By the way,

Purdue is #8 in scoring defense and #30 in total defense. That includes bouts with Illinois, Notre Dame, oregon state and UConn as a gimme. Still a rough schedule.

[yogiherd]

You're correct. If we have lambert, we cut those numbers in half at worst, and probably are still a top 30 unit defensively. I was scared to death of lambert but he proved he is a great defensive coach. By the way,

Purdue is #8 in scoring defense and #30 in total defense. That includes bouts with Illinois, Notre Dame, oregon state and UConn as a gimme. Still a rough schedule.

I don't think Lambert wanted to stay at MU as an asstistant. He had plans with Purdue and after MU passed on him as HC Lambert was happy to sign with them as co-defensive coordinator and linebackers coach with the $500,000 a year salary.

[muherd34]

No doubt Lambert can coach defense.  However the defense is lacking talent, especially on the backend.  Who knows if the defense would be better or worse with him here.  All I know is right now our d coordinator is terrible.  Regardless of talent it is his responsibility to coach them up.