Topic: Herd hoops players

[lexkyherdfan]

Next year he will not be the PG. He will move to the 2. Jacob Connor will be the PG at 6'8"

Why is it always about next year.  And that is the comment in the two top sports.

I thought our style took 2-3 years to be able to play in it?  That is what all the insiders say and you are now saying a freshman is going to come in and start as the PG?    Don?t buy that because we have been told before how hard the offense is to learn.

Now I don?t buy it that it is so hard that a Freshman can?t start. I am just repeating what has been said. In my opinion running pick and rolls looking for a corner three is t that hard to learn.

I am tired of losing just like football has been.  We are in year 8 and we got embarrassed on National TV the other night.  We looked bad and I am sure the line will be well they don?t lose at home often.  Funny thing is we won there last year so we had won there.  It is one thing losing but when you look terrible as we have in the last three games there is more of a problem.  It isn?t one person either. It is a team effort.  It isn?t fair to blame one kid for the problems. They all have struggled at some point.

[MUther]

Why is it always about next year.  And that is the comment in the two top sports.

I thought our style took 2-3 years to be able to play in it?  That is what all the insiders say and you are now saying a freshman is going to come in and start as the PG?    Don?t buy that because we have been told before how hard the offense is to learn.

Now I don?t buy it that it is so hard that a Freshman can?t start. I am just repeating what has been said. In my opinion running pick and rolls looking for a corner three is t that hard to learn.

I am tired of losing just like football has been.  We are in year 8 and we got embarrassed on National TV the other night.  We looked bad and I am sure the line will be well they don?t lose at home often.  Funny thing is we won there last year so we had won there.  It is one thing losing but when you look terrible as we have in the last three games there is more of a problem.  It isn?t one person either. It is a team effort.  It isn?t fair to blame one kid for the problems. They all have struggled at some point.

I don't think they learn the offense in 5 years.  I've yet to see anyone do something that looked like an offense.  They work out of transition.  But there's no offense.  We're supposed to score quick and often, utilizing the three, while the other team sets up and tries to score and when they fail we rush back down and score in transition again.  Problem is we often have sucked at rebounding making less transition opportunities, we allow opponents to score easily making the transition points neutral or zero gain, or, like this year, we turn the ball over or miss the basket making the transition a negative.  This is why we have bigger deficits this year.  Negative transition points, oh, and crappy foul shooting, too.

We're supposed to score quickly on their turnovers, misses, and our rebounds, increasing the score gap.  We rarely get the flow needed to do that and certainly don't have it till late in the season, consistently.  When we try to play basketball like the other team we look like keystone cops and get hammered.  But we're left doing just that when shooting is awful and we can't get points in transition.

[herd33]

I have only seen a few highlights of Connor.  Will he be able to beat CUSA guards off the dribble, get to the lane, and either finish or dish for an open look?  Will Connor be able man up the opposing team's PG and keep him from getting to the dish?  I wonder if he will have enough quicks at 6'8.  Taylor doesn't, and it puts us at a disadvantage for 40 minutes.

DD shares that Final Four teams play man almost exclusively.  I would counter that those same teams all have PG's who are able to beat defenders off the dribble to pressure the defense as well as limiting the opposing PG those same opportunities.  This has been very noticeable from Final Four teams who were surprises in the last decade or so (Loyola-Chicago, VCU, George Mason) as having PG's who were excellent ballhandlers, could beat their man, and distribute the ball to open teammates.  These are things we saw from Elmore and I fear we won't be successful until we at least have someone who can do these things on a consistent basis.

Just my two cents...

[wasbarryb]

I have only seen a few highlights of Connor.  Will he be able to beat CUSA guards off the dribble, get to the lane, and either finish or dish for an open look?  Will Connor be able man up the opposing team's PG and keep him from getting to the dish?  I wonder if he will have enough quicks at 6'8. Taylor doesn't, and it puts us at a disadvantage for 40 minutes.

But, but, but our crack team of practice guru reporters assured us that Taylor was the real deal and would make us forget John El what's his name.

I'm sure they know they are right this time.  They always point out how right they are and little the rest of us know from what we see in the actual games.  Those games don't count for anything there are spies from other schools wearing their uniforms and everything.

[thunderingon]

I don?t know why you all take this out on the guys that go to practices and enjoy the team and players. A little optimism in life may do some of you all some good. You should try it.

[herdfan129]

I don?t know why you all take this out on the guys that go to practices and enjoy the team and players. A little optimism in life may do some of you all some good. You should try it.

Optimism is one thing, but the historical practice reports are on another level from the main guys. Luckily we have a few who get to go to practice every now and then who are able to give an honest and objective evaluation.

Bust is so embarrassed he just stopped posting here all together.

[coalherd]

Certainly not going to call out any specific posters.  And I did and do enjoy some updates, reports, on practice sessions . . . up to a point!  Great to be supportive of the team, staff, etc., and to be optimistic, but let's get real.  Some of those reports have been, well, so over the top and out of touch with reality, that I' m sure, for example, that from some of them in the past, some HERD fans who followed said reports would believe that Marko would be playing at a level at this point which would have him on a path to being a sure NBA draft pick, second round for sure, maybe even the first.  Then reality sets in with the effect of a 2' X 4' board to the side of the head!

[overherd1]

I have no problem with the practice reports.  At times they have been overly optimistic for sure.  I am sure those reports came thru green colored glasses.  That being said, this year and for the most part last year have been very disappointing.  I'm not sure how much blame is on the coaches or players, plenty of blame to go around.  Up to the coaches to get it turned around.  I hope they can.  I imagine if things continue as they are this year, some discussions will happen between coaches and administration.   Feel bad for both the players and coaches as I'm sure they all want to win.  I have always like Dan and appreciated his loyalty and passion for Marshall.  I hope we can turn things around, if not a hard look into what is best moving forward.

[GreenWhite]

I am sick of all the out of position talk. Let's go back to a couple of years ago. Taylor was not eligible yet. West was running the point. All I heard and read was that West was out of position and once Taylor moved to the point guard, this team would roll. Now that West is gone, Taylor is all of a sudden out of position? Idon't buy it,

[herd2win]

Players get worse not better under DD.  Kinsey is worse, Early is not developing or contributing, the bigs have been terrible under this staff. 

[thunderingon]

Players get worse not better under DD.  Kinsey is worse, Early is not developing or contributing, the bigs have been terrible under this staff.

Ahh, so did Kinsey get better and then worse under DD or how does that work?  He was under recruited and then became NBA potential.  Obinna?definitely worse under DD?well, maybe not. His game has grown significantly the past year. 

[herd2win]

Ahh, so did Kinsey get better and then worse under DD or how does that work?  He was under recruited and then became NBA potential.  Obinna?definitely worse under DD?well, maybe not. His game has grown significantly the past year.

Kinsey was better 2 years ago.  He for sure is not better this year than last year.  Has Early gotten better?

[wlf]

Kinsey was better 2 years ago.  He for sure is not better this year than last year.  Has Early gotten better?

Kinsey was the least ready to play , of the incoming trio ,his freshman year .

[GreenWhite]

Players get worse not better under DD.  Kinsey is worse, Early is not developing or contributing, the bigs have been terrible under this staff.

Really? Go back a few years. I believe Peneva got better while he was here. Jon Elmore upped his game while here. CJ Burks got better as time went along. Obinna was really improved over last year. I still think the problem with Kinsey is that he has the NBA in his head. He has just been trying too hard to impress the scouts. He is not playing "his game" which is what got him noticed in the first place. Right now, there is no team ball being played. How D'Antoni attempts to fix this will go a long way in determining if the Herd breaks its four-game losing streak or if it goes to five on Saturday.

[Herdmeister]

Really? Go back a few years. I believe Peneva got better while he was here. Jon Elmore upped his game while here. CJ Burks got better as time went along. Obinna was really improved over last year.

100% correct
You might want to add Austin Loop to that list as well

[MicDrass1]

Some players have gotten better, some not, some stayed the same.  For most college coaches that?s about par for the course.  Not many college coaches have a very high % of most players improving each year in a program.  S&C has a big part in all of this too.  Our players have slow feet.  I could fix that on all of them in a month with 1 wooden box.

B-ball didn?t Capatalize on recruiting after the NCAA win.  That?s the biggest problem.  Had momentum and stunk up the recruiting trail.

Right out of the gate the three best instant true freshman recruits in DD era so far.  Elmore transfer and Burks NQ.  I want another Big Daddy Kane and Damier Pitts with a Tyler Wilkerson and Dennis Tinnon.  Give me Obinna with those four types.  We are good again.

Kinsey
Obinna
West
Mckey

[BoydCountyHerdFan]

Throwing out the names of 5-6 players that "got better" during their time playing for DD does not help the argument that he develops players.  Having to try to make a list of guys that were better when they left than when they arrived is the overall problem.  Had herd2win just used the word "most" or "the majority of" this couldn't be argued.  We, as fans, can't be satisfied that 5-6 players actually showed significant improvements during their time here.  That's not a compliment at all and I'm pretty sure DD would agree with that.  There should be 5-6 players showing significant improvement annually. That's what makes a strong program.  I would have to agree that DD and his staff have failed in player development over the years.  I think the lack of focus on strength training for the first 6 years or so is a major factor in that. 

[coalherd]

Throwing out the names of 5-6 players that "got better" during their time playing for DD does not help the argument that he develops players.  Having to try to make a list of guys that were better when they left than when they arrived is the overall problem.  Had herd2win just used the word "most" or "the majority of" this couldn't be argued.  We, as fans, can't be satisfied that 5-6 players actually showed significant improvements during their time here.  That's not a compliment at all and I'm pretty sure DD would agree with that.  There should be 5-6 players showing significant improvement annually. That's what makes a strong program.  I would have to agree that DD and his staff have failed in player development over the years.  I think the lack of focus on strength training for the first 6 years or so is a major factor in that.

Could throw out 3 or 4 players on the current roster who haven't development much, or maybe at all, during their tenure.  Could also toss out names of players on scholarships, easily 5-6, or probably several more, in Danny's 7+ year tenure, who not only didn't "develop"; they just up and left, were gone without significantly contributing to the overall team performance and were never going to!!

[wlf]

 I hear a lot of noise , it?s simply recruiting, recruiting, recruiting of ball players . I really don?t care about all the Xs and Os and strength ,quickness, or  whatever. The right kind flourish the other kind don?t.

We haven?t gotten enough of the right kind. Assistants recruit, head coaches close the deals. Same problem all along. Of course head coaches hire the assistants.

[MUonium]

concerning the opposite of recruiting and the opposite of current hoops players -

At about the half way point in the season, I was curious as to what we might be missing or not.  Of course, it?s totally subjective and definitely unscientific.  Both EKU and Louisville spread the scoring around but Louisville especially does, whereas the Herd has three main scorers with a big drop-off to the next few in line.  So in simplistic offensive terms, we're not playing team ball, we're not getting enough out of a majority of players.

West [Louisville 10-4]
Started all 14 games.  Has the most minutes played by a wide margin.  6.6 PPG, 35% FG, 25% 3PT, 2.8 RB, 53 Assists, 26 steals, 23 TOs.  Appears to be strictly a role player and definitely not a significant scorer.

Williams [Eastern Kentucky 8-7]
Started 11 of 12 played out of 15 games total (fought off injury early on or still is I think).  A bit more than half the minutes played compared to the teammate with the most minutes.  Leads PPG AVG at 11.9, 47% FG, 37.5% 3PT FG, 6 RB PG, 25 blocks, 10 steals, 16 TOs.

[Buffalo Bop]

https://twitter.com/GrantTraylor/status/1479149483074142209?s=20

[The Right Stuff]

I am hearing that George may also have health problems.

TRS
MU 71

[wlf]

concerning the opposite of recruiting and the opposite of current hoops players -

At about the half way point in the season, I was curious as to what we might be missing or not.  Of course, it?s totally subjective and definitely unscientific.  Both EKU and Louisville spread the scoring around but Louisville especially does, whereas the Herd has three main scorers with a big drop-off to the next few in line.  So in simplistic offensive terms, we're not playing team ball, we're not getting enough out of a majority of players.

West [Louisville 10-4]
Started all 14 games.  Has the most minutes played by a wide margin.  6.6 PPG, 35% FG, 25% 3PT, 2.8 RB, 53 Assists, 26 steals, 23 TOs.  Appears to be strictly a role player and definitely not a significant scorer.

Williams [Eastern Kentucky 8-7]
Started 11 of 12 played out of 15 games total (fought off injury early on or still is I think).  A bit more than half the minutes played compared to the teammate with the most minutes.  Leads PPG AVG at 11.9, 47% FG, 37.5% 3PT FG, 6 RB PG, 25 blocks, 10 steals, 16 TOs.

Always better to have balance, we just don?t have enough balancing actors.

[miltonherdfan]

OAK is the only player that we'd really be screwed if he didn't play

[wlf]

Folks will get their fill of a no-Taylor and more McKey.