Topic: Dan D'Antoni gave us...

[wasbarryb]

He should refuse to embarrass himself further and step aside.  Don?t buy that he?s automatically getting another year either.

Whoever he is, I don't envy the new AD coming in.  Keep DD or fire him, a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation if ever there was one.

[Herdiowa]

We have a coach thats raised the accomplishments, and expectations if a program that hasn't had any in 3 decades. We are having a disastrous year, and that isn't going to turn around barring a miracle. It's Dan's 1st losing season outside of that doomed first season. We all know we suck, and it's pathetic. The guys are shooting half their percentages from last year for whatever reason, and that doesn't appear to have a shot at changing.

In any case, Dan will have another year here and deserves it. Let him develop these guys, get them another year. Kinsey needs to stay if he wants a real NBA shot. But he may not. Other than him, we lose players that won't hurt us at all and may even help a bit. Fricks will get healthy, Braun a year older, obinna, early, taylor etc. By most accounts, Dan landed some solid recruits again.

Yes we suck. Yes this year is a disaster. Yes Dan will get another year. No need to beat the dead horse. I'll look forward to the tournament and then most likely next season hoping we get back on track. If we don't win 20-25 games and compete next year, ny all means, then the real conversations about firing Dan can begin with some legitimacy, and I'd support a change as well

Hones t question.  Do you think Dan has the stomach for turning the roster over the way he needs to in order to turn it around?  Cause let?s be honest player development is lacking.  I know somebody is going to throw out what about Peneva?  Ok that?s 1.

[Herd2believe]

I just don?t really see and have never seen Kinsey as a top 10 all timer or a NBA type.  Those are pretty high bars and all I see him as is an all time top leaper. I thoroughly like him but I don?t think his game warrants those type of accolades. IMO

[VA Herd Fan]

Whoever he is, I don't envy the new AD coming in.  Keep DD or fire him, a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation if ever there was one.

If the new guy is not a Marshall guy there is no way they come in and fire Dan.

[miltonherdfan]

If the new guy is not a Marshall guy there is no way they come in and fire Dan.

So you are saying JO is only hire that you can see letting him go?

[RollingThunder80]

I think DD is in the process of making the decision on next year. I bet he does not even know but I think we can be assured that the question of who is coach next year will be his decision. If I were betting I would say DD steps down after this season and for 2 reasons:    One being this team may not win another game and next year probably is not going to be much better without a massive influx of transfer talent which is unlikely.   And two is the game had passed him by and I think he is beginning to realize it.

[carolinaherdfan]

If the new guy is not a Marshall guy there is no way they come in and fire Dan.

I love Dantoni; I went to school with him and Mike; both of them..great MU people..,
I remember whitey wilson as AD, and I remember when Lee Moon came in...many things before and after him..,many thot Lee was a @#&%#...but look at his accomplishments
I never thot I would say this...but, Doc and Hamrick stabilized our athletic programs, great... but MU needs another Lee Moon...if we are to get back to the great aim we herdfans have in view...we need a reset...

[sleeinwv]

What do you all expect.   MU hired a guy who was never a head coach higher than high school.  Yea he dibble dabbled in the NBA as bench coach/summer leagues but he didn?t have to recruit or be the captain of his own ship.

If DD is a son of Marshall and he loves MU, he needs to resign.  Thank you for the NCAA win, too bad that?s all he will be remembered for. 

[ThunderValley]

DD was a great idea at time of hiring him. We all wanred to see him bring back basketball. Now after eight years we realize we had a great year but we haven't built from that. Players show no improvement. They look like they have been taught playground ball. A team is a reflection of their coach and it certainly has shown that. It is time for DD to retire and enjoy being a fan of MU basketball.

[herd2win]

I don?t think he will step down.  His post game interviews tell you that.  He does not think he is the problem, he blames the players.  He actually thinks we are young and that next year we will be better.

We have no system, no discipline, or effort.  Everyone just stands around waiting to shoot and then let?s their man on defense get rebounds and go to the hoop.

He will be our coach next year, he won?t make any staff changes, and we will likely win 15-18 games with an easy schedule.

[VA Herd Fan]

So you are saying JO is only hire that you can see letting him go?

I just think it would be extremely rough on someone who isn't an alum to come in and fire someone with Dan's legacy.  I'm strictly speaking from a PR perspective.

[Herdalum83]

What's bad is we aren't getting talent and we aren't developing players. Notice how Kinsey has regressed just like Elmore did.

I just want to know when Elmore regressed?

Elmore Stats by Year are as Followed

Freshman - PPG - 15.2 - APG - 5.8 - RPG - 3.4 - TOPG - 2.6 - SPG - 0.8 - FG% - 37.6
Sophomre - PPG - 19.7 - APG - 5.9 - RPG - 4.3 - TOPG - 3.1 - SPG - 1.1 - FG% - 41.3
      Junior - PPG - 22.7 - APG - 6.8 - RPG - 5.8 - TOPG - 3.7 - SPG - 1.6 - FG% - 43.9
     Senior - PPG - 20.3 - APG - 5.9 - RPG - 5.1 - TOPG - 3.1 - SPG - 1.7 - FG% - 39.9

I'm not sure I see regression when looking at Elmore's career. I see a slight dip in numbers from Junior year to Senior year but there are a lot of factors for that, that do not mean a regression in his ability or skill. The biggest factor I would say especially to the drop in assists and shooting percentage would be the loss of Paneva. Jon got at least 2 or 3 assists per game off the pick and roll to Penava and the threat of Penava on the pick and roll got Jon a lot of open looks as well when the defense would decide to take the pass to Penava away.

That was a huge part of our offense in Elmore's junior season and it took some adjustment that next year offensively to play without Penava and without the pick and roll being as much of the offense as before, it put more pressure on Jon to look for his own shot, as well as allowed teams to focus more defensively on stopping Elmore, and early on that year he definitely forced some things which is why we see the dip in shooting percentage. As the year went on and the team adjusted to not having Penava and Kinsey started to emerge late in the pick and roll game that year, we saw Jon's shooting percentage begin to climb again.

But make no mistake a small dip in stats does not mean a regression occurred. If you watched that year, that may have been the most crafty version of Elmore we saw during his time at Marshall. He by NO means regressed. That narrative is ridiculous and you're not the only person I've heard spout it off on here, so I'm not singling you out Champ. But, you have to look deeper than stats, every year is different.

Jordan had fewer points, assists, and rebounds in 1990-1991 season than he did the 1989-1990 season. No one is gonna say he regressed. Stats don't tell the whole story.

[HoPPy785]

I don?t think he will step down.  His post game interviews tell you that.  He does not think he is the problem, he blames the players.  He actually thinks we are young and that next year we will be better.

We have no system, no discipline, or effort.  Everyone just stands around waiting to shoot and then let?s their man on defense get rebounds and go to the hoop.

He will be our coach next year, he won?t make any staff changes, and we will likely win 15-18 games with an easy schedule.

The whole I'll step down when I'm no longer good thing is tough. I'm sure Dan truly believes next year will be the year he gets it all back together. Nobody wants to go out with their tail tucked.

I'm fine with him getting another shot next year but only if he shows some change. He has to hit the portal hard and to his credit he says he will. I'd also like to see him bring in a young energetic recruiting specialist as an assistant. Dump Cline or Rigot. I'd also like to see a commitment to going back to fully playing our old pick and roll offense. If he makes some of these changes and still does bad then he's got to go no matter what. If he makes no changes then he should be fine after this year.

[chris88]

I sincerely hope and pray things get better this year. If not we'll see if he has lost the team by how many enter the portal...especially OAK.

[ThunderValley]

When your job performance has tanked and you no longer have answers you turn to blameing everyone but yourself. Eventually you realize the problem all the time was you. You refused to change and you know it is time to admit to yourself you are no longer what you used to be. It takes a man to realize he has been the problem and things change and you didn't accept that.

We all at one time or another have been there

[Herdiowa]

When your job performance has tanked and you no longer have answers you turn to blameing everyone but yourself. Eventually you realize the problem all the time was you. You refused to change and you know it is time to admit to yourself you are no longer what you used to be. It takes a man to realize he has been the problem and things change and you didn't accept that.

We all at one time or another have been there

My great Aunt always used to say son remember when you point the finger of blame there are 3 fingers pointing back at you.  I think Dan needs to realize this.

[Ovaltine Jenkins]

He should refuse to embarrass himself further and step aside.  Don?t buy that he?s automatically getting another year either.

Exactly.  DD doesn't deserve another week, let alone another year.  It's time for him to go now!

[miltonherdfan]

Exactly.  DD doesn't deserve another week, let alone another year.  It's time for him to go now!

this season is the BB equivalent of FB 2016.  you're at a crossroads, if you're the AD.  if you bring DD back, you can take it to the bank that you will face declining attendance & support $ that's now only gonna come back AFTER you start winning, again.  so, are you THAT confident that DD, at age 75, turns things around?  or you can try & create a little excitement coming out of a dumpster fire by replacing him & resetting the program?

we gambled with more of the same (doc) with FB, & we still haven't gotten everyone back on board b/c doc wasn't the answer.  are we taking the same gamble with DD?

[SuperAnjario]

Whoever he is, I don't envy the new AD coming in.  Keep DD or fire him, a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation if ever there was one.

Not really.  There are 6-7 old men who go to practice who want him back.  Those guys and Dan?s family want him to get another year.  So, you have like 20 people who want him back and 10s of thousands who want him gone.

We have a history of messing up no-brainers, though.  We faced the same layup decision on Doc 3-4 times and fought it till the AD literally lost his job because of it.

[GreenWhite]

this season is the BB equivalent of FB 2016.  you're at a crossroads, if you're the AD.  if you bring DD back, you can take it to the bank that you will face declining attendance & support $ that's now only gonna come back AFTER you start winning, again.  so, are you THAT confident that DD, at age 75, turns things around?  or you can try & create a little excitement coming out of a dumpster fire by replacing him & resetting the program?

we gambled with more of the same (doc) with FB, & we still haven't gotten everyone back on board b/c doc wasn't the answer.  are we taking the same gamble with DD?

I didn't expect everyone to come back for football because we made the change. Winning 9-10 games a year, playing for the conference championship every other year and winning it more than once in 11 years will bring the fans back. The same will happen with basketball. The new hire will have to prove himself and it will take more than one year to do that.

[Herd2believe]

I just want to know when Elmore regressed?

Elmore Stats by Year are as Followed

Freshman - PPG - 15.2 - APG - 5.8 - RPG - 3.4 - TOPG - 2.6 - SPG - 0.8 - FG% - 37.6
Sophomre - PPG - 19.7 - APG - 5.9 - RPG - 4.3 - TOPG - 3.1 - SPG - 1.1 - FG% - 41.3
      Junior - PPG - 22.7 - APG - 6.8 - RPG - 5.8 - TOPG - 3.7 - SPG - 1.6 - FG% - 43.9
     Senior - PPG - 20.3 - APG - 5.9 - RPG - 5.1 - TOPG - 3.1 - SPG - 1.7 - FG% - 39.9

I'm not sure I see regression when looking at Elmore's career. I see a slight dip in numbers from Junior year to Senior year but there are a lot of factors for that, that do not mean a regression in his ability or skill. The biggest factor I would say especially to the drop in assists and shooting percentage would be the loss of Paneva. Jon got at least 2 or 3 assists per game off the pick and roll to Penava and the threat of Penava on the pick and roll got Jon a lot of open looks as well when the defense would decide to take the pass to Penava away.

That was a huge part of our offense in Elmore's junior season and it took some adjustment that next year offensively to play without Penava and without the pick and roll being as much of the offense as before, it put more pressure on Jon to look for his own shot, as well as allowed teams to focus more defensively on stopping Elmore, and early on that year he definitely forced some things which is why we see the dip in shooting percentage. As the year went on and the team adjusted to not having Penava and Kinsey started to emerge late in the pick and roll game that year, we saw Jon's shooting percentage begin to climb again.

But make no mistake a small dip in stats does not mean a regression occurred. If you watched that year, that may have been the most crafty version of Elmore we saw during his time at Marshall. He by NO means regressed. That narrative is ridiculous and you're not the only person I've heard spout it off on here, so I'm not singling you out Champ. But, you have to look deeper than stats, every year is different.

Jordan had fewer points, assists, and rebounds in 1990-1991 season than he did the 1989-1990 season. No one is gonna say he regressed. Stats don't tell the whole story.

In Elmore?s ?disappointing? senior season, only 2 players in the entire country averaged 20pts-5 rebs-5 asts. Him and Ja Morant. Elite company

[Flat Tire 2]

I just think it would be extremely rough on someone who isn't an alum to come in and fire someone with Dan's legacy.  I'm strictly speaking from a PR perspective.

I was thinking today that the DD situation is very similar to a former MU basketball coach. I can remember seeing The Herd at the Field House for the first time in the early 1960's. Older fans will remember MU faced a similar situation with then head coach Jule Rivlin.  Jule had been a star basketball player for MU in the late 1930's and was named second team All-Century Marshall University Basketball Team. Jule had played pro basketball was instrumental in getting Hal Greer drafted into the NBA. He won a MAC championship and took MU to its first appearance in the NCAA Big Dance in 1956. Jule's record at MU was 100-88.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jule_Rivlin

I guess history does repeat itself. I am sorry for rambling.

[jdonaccbus]

While I am not advocating Dan to be fired, I do think if he is retained then it has to come with some stipulations and protocols.

I am very reluctant in seeing Dan making changes on his own. I think a new AD would have to work as an administrator and get Dan to make the necessary changes needed to get this program going in the proper direction. I just don't see Dan....heading to the age of 75....as a guy who seems to be set in his ways of making the necessary changes on his own. That is just my opinion, but it is a strong opinion.

If O'Malley is hired, he has at least seen some of the things that need to happen within the program. Some roster changes need to happen. We aren't just losing....we are losing bad, like yesterday, to teams hovering around .500. The same-ole-same-ole approach in this day in age won't be effective. Some of the players on the roster need to be encouraged to transfer to D2/NAIA programs. We have plenty of small colleges around the area that are looking for players. When those players leave, we have to use the transfer portal to get some players in here that have the skill set and athleticism that fill roles that we so desperately need. I also think he needs to be told to make one change on the coaching staff. He needs an assistant with ties to a metro area that can bring us in some high school talent that is bigger, stronger and faster than some of the players we currently have on the roster. We currently have an older head coach so..... we need to give the next coach a chance to succeed and not make this a total rebuild from scratch when that coach takes over. I also have to say that as I look at closeup shots on TV every game, it always seems that the opposing players have 10 to 15 pounds more muscle than what our players have. Dan needs to get with the modern era where players utilize a strength & conditioning coach to maximize what we put on the floor. Some of the players we have need to change their bodies....thru both S&C and also by their dietary habits.

I hate talking about Dan in these types of things. It pains me. But at the same time, I can't watch games like yesterday which are becoming a common theme. My only thing is this......if you keep a 74 year old coach around, then we better pray that someone guides him in some direction for the betterment of this basketball program. Another season like this and we set the program further back. Possible candidates may not want to come into this job if it is a total rebuild from the ground up while at the same time heading to a new conference. This program has to be set up for future success. I agree that Dan has done a lot with this program. He loves this school. But the truth be told, this is about Marshall basketball.....the program....and what type of foundation we are laying for the future. If Dan comes back, then he has to be told of some changes that need to be desperately made.

[THECHAMPISHERE]

I just want to know when Elmore regressed?

Elmore Stats by Year are as Followed

Freshman - PPG - 15.2 - APG - 5.8 - RPG - 3.4 - TOPG - 2.6 - SPG - 0.8 - FG% - 37.6
Sophomre - PPG - 19.7 - APG - 5.9 - RPG - 4.3 - TOPG - 3.1 - SPG - 1.1 - FG% - 41.3
      Junior - PPG - 22.7 - APG - 6.8 - RPG - 5.8 - TOPG - 3.7 - SPG - 1.6 - FG% - 43.9
     Senior - PPG - 20.3 - APG - 5.9 - RPG - 5.1 - TOPG - 3.1 - SPG - 1.7 - FG% - 39.9

I'm not sure I see regression when looking at Elmore's career. I see a slight dip in numbers from Junior year to Senior year but there are a lot of factors for that, that do not mean a regression in his ability or skill. The biggest factor I would say especially to the drop in assists and shooting percentage would be the loss of Paneva. Jon got at least 2 or 3 assists per game off the pick and roll to Penava and the threat of Penava on the pick and roll got Jon a lot of open looks as well when the defense would decide to take the pass to Penava away.

That was a huge part of our offense in Elmore's junior season and it took some adjustment that next year offensively to play without Penava and without the pick and roll being as much of the offense as before, it put more pressure on Jon to look for his own shot, as well as allowed teams to focus more defensively on stopping Elmore, and early on that year he definitely forced some things which is why we see the dip in shooting percentage. As the year went on and the team adjusted to not having Penava and Kinsey started to emerge late in the pick and roll game that year, we saw Jon's shooting percentage begin to climb again.

But make no mistake a small dip in stats does not mean a regression occurred. If you watched that year, that may have been the most crafty version of Elmore we saw during his time at Marshall. He by NO means regressed. That narrative is ridiculous and you're not the only person I've heard spout it off on here, so I'm not singling you out Champ. But, you have to look deeper than stats, every year is different.

Jordan had fewer points, assists, and rebounds in 1990-1991 season than he did the 1989-1990 season. No one is gonna say he regressed. Stats don't tell the whole story.

When looking for the ODU game a few days ago I stumbled upon the ODU game of Elmore's last year....the very first thing the announcers said was that Elmore was struggling mightily - that was about halfway through the year.

I think if we look back at this board during Elmore's last year....you'll find at least 20 topics (and 100's of posts) throughout that year saying something to the effect of "What is wrong with Elmore". I don't think it's fair to blame Penava (not being there) for Elmore taking bad shots and playing out of control in his senior year (when he should be playing his best).

Say what you want, but the longer GREAT players (and Elmore and Kinsey were both great) stay in Dan's system...they end up taking themselves out of NBA draft pick status. Same with Beyers....dude is as athletic as anyone on the floor...and he's on the bench his senior year (played 10 minutes a game as a Freshman)....his field goal percentage has dropped every year in Dan's system. There is zero player development, and many of the guys get worse the longer they are here.

[svherd]

I don?t think the new AD will fire DD. They?ll give him one more year.