Topic: 2023 and NIL, first year of real impact at determining G5/P5 selection of school

[whf]

Doing some thinking this AM and seeing in the HD the selection of schools by kids local to Huntington, I'm wondering if folks who could play at MU as starters are selecting P5 schools because of the potential NIL money, even for non-starters.

What do you think the NIl money is going to mean to the progression of kids into P5 schools, then back to G5 or other P5 via the portal as they find out they're not on the NIL money list as they thought they might eventually be?

[herd2win]

This entire thing is a cluster and 5 years from now it will show that.  People will not graduate, sponsors will not get the return on their money, schools will drop players who are not living up to what they were "paid".

There is a small percentage of players that will go pro and the vast majority getting a free education is more than compensation.  What should have happened is that the NCAA would allow kids to work like other students and then the schools give a stipend enough that each student has money to eat out on occasion and money for clothing.

I see a large percentage of Marshall players will come from the portal and not high school.  Gone is the era where we can root for a player for 4 years.  Now, just root for the jersey. 

[elginherd]

This entire thing is a cluster and 5 years from now it will show that.  People will not graduate, sponsors will not get the return on their money, schools will drop players who are not living up to what they were "paid".

There is a small percentage of players that will go pro and the vast majority getting a free education is more than compensation.  What should have happened is that the NCAA would allow kids to work like other students and then the schools give a stipend enough that each student has money to eat out on occasion and money for clothing.

I see a large percentage of Marshall players will come from the portal and not high school.  Gone is the era where we can root for a player for 4 years.  Now, just root for the jersey.

I agree that the NCAA bears the primary responsibilty for today's situation. The utter intransigence of the NCAA's position regarding athletes being able to make money lead to to this. In some cases, the athletes need that money.

Regarding athletes receiving a 'free education', I'm sorry, that is not true. They earn that education. It ain't easy physically or in terms of time commitment.

[whf]

I think NIL should be entirely separate from the NCAA, other than approval; and definitely separate from athletic departments.

They should not be allowed to promote the concept or solicit participants; those who choose to use NIL for their benefit (both sides) would then be required to seek it out.

There are outlets for the kids to register in, MU uses one. Then there are "non-aligned" (want to buy a bridge) foundations for 501C3 donations where kids can go for contracts to do public service work or advertising, etc. for other non-profits. 

No athletic department should be able to solicit any of these NIL users to support, or garner certain values, for any single player.

[chris88]

The NCAA has no control over D1 football. That is where this all started with the SCOTUS case. The membership of D1 football and the NCAA for other sports needs to set guidelines but they are chicken scared that whatever they decide will be challenged in court. As has already happened, it will help the few but hurt the many imo.

[HoPPy785]

It all means we will stay right where we are in the pecking order. We will see studs go for the big money and we will take from the schools lesser than us. Everyone will eat the smaller guys lunch. The worst part is, we likely never see another superstar QB develop and stay here, unless someone with deep pockets helps out.

Also why take an unknown high school talent when you can take proven D1 athletes from other schools. We are the farm system to the P5 now. The FCS, Juco and D2 are the farm system for G5.

[goherd24]

I agree that the NCAA bears the primary responsibilty for today's situation. The utter intransigence of the NCAA's position regarding athletes being able to make money lead to to this. In some cases, the athletes need that money.

Regarding athletes receiving a 'free education', I'm sorry, that is not true. They earn that education. It ain't easy physically or in terms of time commitment.

Let's be real, the average student earns that education with much more difficulty than a player in nearly any sport. I had some classes with football players and i they came to class about twice a semester, and i never saw them sitting out for grades lol. You think Cato did much of his own work or that "tutor" did?

And that's the same across the entire college landscape with some exceptions, even at Marshall with professors that buck the system. But most don't.

[goherd24]

It all means we will stay right where we are in the pecking order. We will see studs go for the big money and we will take from the schools lesser than us. Everyone will eat the smaller guys lunch. The worst part is, we likely never see another superstar QB develop and stay here, unless someone with deep pockets helps out.

Also why take an unknown high school talent when you can take proven D1 athletes from other schools. We are the farm system to the P5 now. The FCS, Juco and D2 are the farm system for G5.

On the flip side of that, there will be a lot of high school talent overlooked and missed now that we would never have had a chance at because they are taking portal guys now at p5s. And don't underestimate the loyalty that can come from people who are scorned and not wanted, when they come calling wanting you later after Marshall gave them a chance. Taylor, Elmore, and Kinsey are prime examples of kids that could have went big time and stayed here. I gave immense respect for that type of player. Then you have those like that guy that went to louisville, which I won't name or ever care to remember.

And we can also get some p5 guys that end up being back ups but still good players that can come here and make an impact too.

As far as from a business standpoint, NIL never made sense. Nobody is gonna buy a product or care that a college player endorses something. Hell, did you ever buy anything because a pro player did a commercial with it? That all comes down to your needs vs what a product or service does to fill it, it doesn't matter who is in the commercial. NIL isn't about any legitimate ROI to a business, it's about paying players to come to your school over others so your team you love can win.

[chris88]

Correct. It's just a bribery scheme.  It's funny that we now expect no loyalty from players yet are asked to contribute to NIL system that makes disloyalty probable.  Let Dutch Miller etc pay the NIL and work with the coaching staff to retain players. If a player has his degree and thinks the grass is greener than so be it. If they don't have their degree or are just looking for more playing time than the risk is on them. As a fan we can support the players that are here and root for the name on the front of the jersey.

[ThunderValley]

I think this NIL rule by The Supreme Court with no regulations will turn out to be a bad rule. We are beginning to see the fallout of their bad decision.

[MUonium]

I think this NIL rule by The Supreme Court with no regulations will turn out to be a bad rule. We are beginning to see the fallout of their bad decision.

i'm not certain, just a Q for someone who knows-
i was thinking that maybe it's not the SCOTUS's job to regulate- but do what they did, say that it's legal to be paid or to pay amateur, student athletes and that when/if applicable, no entity can take away your amateur status (or something like that).  i think then, the NCAA or whomever is the governing body has to be prepared or prepare "rules", which they did to some extent, correct??

[ThunderValley]

court made it legal to pay players

[elginherd]

I think this NIL rule by The Supreme Court with no regulations will turn out to be a bad rule. We are beginning to see the fallout of their bad decision.

That is a total misunderstanding of what transpired...
The courts from district through appeals to SCOTUS almost unanimously found that the rules set forth by the NCAA and the member organizations had in fact no basis in law and that those rules were unreasonable in that they denied people the right to make money. The courts' responsibility is not to promulgate rules. That was the NCAA's job to establish rules that did not violate the rule of law OR were mutually agreed upon by the regulators and the athletes.

The NCAA went to the mat being inflexible. Their strategy was to lobby Congress to pass legislation that would in effect allow the NCAA to have their rules backed by law. Needless to say, they failed.

Recall that Florida (first) & California (second) state legislatures had already passed laws that de-nutted the ability of the NCAA to enforce its version of 'amateurism' in those states. A bunch of other states were following with similar legislation.

[whf]

I don't think NIL has a single thing to do with amateurism; instead it is about the ability to make money from one's recognition, like many others in our society do.  NIL of each individual is a product, their own IP, and fungible.

The use of one's name, image, or likeness, has nothing to do with playing professionally or in an amateur fashion.  It is not one's performance that is the product, it is their "NIL", simple and pure.

That is exactly why each deal is an individual business transaction between two parties, the NIL owner is not trading their skills performance for money, hence it has nothing to do with what level, league, etc. that one actually plays in.  As a matter of fact, a great orator, a super influencer, a know-nothing popular figure, can do all the NIL they choose.  Now athletes can too

The issue is that the size of the following of the place where someone gained notoriety is generally the important factor in NIL for athletes, the bigger the venue and stage of play, the more folks willing to anti up money for the use of one's NIL. This is why media coverage and population awareness is the key to NIL, and recruiting.

I know this sound Captain Obvious like, and it is.  I merely say all this to try to stop the argument that NIL isn't fair or was a product of the big schools; it is a product of each person owning their own identity, and having the right to market that identity. .

[elginherd]

I don't think NIL has a single thing to do with amateurism; instead it is about the ability to make money from one's recognition, like many others in our society do.  NIL of each individual is a product, their own IP, and fungible.

The use of one's name, image, or likeness, has nothing to do with playing professionally or in an amateur fashion.  It is not one's performance that is the product, it is their "NIL", simple and pure.

That is exactly why each deal is an individual business transaction between two parties, the NIL owner is not trading their skills performance for money, hence it has nothing to do with what level, league, etc. that one actually plays in.  As a matter of fact, a great orator, a super influencer, a know-nothing popular figure, can do all the NIL they choose.  Now athletes can too

The issue is that the size of the following of the place where someone gained notoriety is generally the important factor in NIL for athletes, the bigger the venue and stage of play, the more folks willing to anti up money for the use of one's NIL. This is why media coverage and population awareness is the key to NIL, and recruiting.

I know this sound Captain Obvious like, and it is.  I merely say all this to try to stop the argument that NIL isn't fair or was a product of the big schools; it is a product of each person owning their own identity, and having the right to market that identity. .

I agree; however, the problem was in how the NCAA defined 'amateurism'.

[Johnnyherd]

Two schools that I heard about preseason Texas A&M for signing the number 1 recruiting class, first in their history and SMU for coming out with a plan that paid every scholarship football and basketball player $3000 a month year round.

Both schools have all kinds of players in the transfer portal.  SMU had like 5 football players basically quit playing mid season and announced they were entering the transfer portal.

[Toro Toro Taxi]

Two schools that I heard about preseason Texas A&M for signing the number 1 recruiting class, first in their history and SMU for coming out with a plan that paid every scholarship football and basketball player $3000 a month year round.

Both schools have all kinds of players in the transfer portal.  SMU had like 5 football players basically quit playing mid season and announced they were entering the transfer portal.

Texas A&M last season , Oregon was the big money team this time around . The major college football schools currently have no rules , the NCAA leaves them alone . Paying players has always happened but its out in the open now , ridiculous amounts of money being given to kids , and uncles , to come to their school. The SEC have been masters of this for years , now they are able to do it without any threat of penalty .  I sure there is a 30 for 30 being produced about this , itll make peoples heads spin.

[chris88]

The problem I have with the ruling is the players would make nothing if not for the support of the school.  The uniforms, facilities, travel, free education, food/housing, tradition, coaching, competition, medical staff, and team around the individual all provided by the school directly or indirectly.  In effect, the school is taking on all the tangible risk when bringing in a recruit. The athlete gets all benefits without risk. And now they can bribe themselves out to the highest bidder without any regard to performance.  Pro FB players, for most part, have to at least make the 53 man roster and can be cut for lack of or unsatisfactory performance.

What's next?  Agents for college players? A player threatening to sit out from a big game in mid season because he's having a good year and wants his NIL re-negotiated?  Mid-season portal moves?  WVU just had a bb player do this when his coach suddenly left or got fired. WVU wanted him to be eligible immediately. NCAA balked and now WVU appealing. It will be the kid's 4th school.

IMO, the end game will be when the dopey boosters realize the program they support isn't any better off than they were in old system. They personally are just lot lighter in the wallet.  No amount of money you give to the athletes is going to make up for the incompetence of the HC (see Texas A&M). The best coaches know how to get the best players and how to get the most out of them through development. That a few will go elsewhere to a higher bidder is really doing those coaches a favor. There are only 15 or so programs even capable of competing at highest level anyway.  The other schools are just lighting their money on fire. If anyone thinks NIL is going to get Marshall, or WVU for that matter, to a playoff than they are delusional imo.