Topic: Pikeville vs Marshall

[Herdmeister]

I want to ask a valid question: why are we redshirting Toussaint and Braun, who are both juniors?

I will leave the question to be answered before I comment any further.

Yes, I do know that Braun had a big cast on his forearm back in June when I was at the Henderson Center. But that was 6 months ago.

Neither would get much playing time this year.  Too much  ahead of them.  With losing 2 guards after this year it gives Kyle a shot over the next 2 years. Pretty much the same with  Aymericgoran goes this year and Obinnathe next.. 

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[Herdmeister]

Why redshirt them?

I explained as I know it. Danny will answer any and all questions. On the phone, at practice or before or after games. Nobody is more accessible

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[Herdmeister]

No way?!?!?! So a 7-footer is useless against an undersized team.

And if Dan's logic was not to play him because he was too slow against an undersized NAIA team that has just recently down-graded to a weaker NAIA conference, then he won't be able to get up and down the floor against any type of D1 team with quality D1 athletes.

I guess my next question is why keep a 5th year senior around if he is "too big" for a NAIA squad?

ask the coach. His door is open.


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[REL70]

ask the coach. His door is open.


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It's much easier to complain every day on this message board than to ask Dan.

[Herdmeister]

It's much easier to complain every day on this message board than to ask Dan.

I guess so...

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[Herdmeister]

Last night's 30-point win was far from perfect. A ten minute stretch of poor play in the first half is enough to give this group plenty of things to work on.

On balance, though, the final numbers from the game offer some positives. The Herd shot well, 50% from the field, 45% from three, and 80% from the line. They handled the ball well, handing out 20 assists on 38 made shots and committing only 6 turnovers. Defensively, they held UPIKE to 38% shooting from the field, 33% from three, and out rebounded UPIKE 48-36.

Herd fans should expect all of these things when playing an out-manned NAIA squad, and in the end, we got them. What is notable is that in every statistical category outlined above, the Herd out-performed last year's team in its 83-69 win over UPIKE, with the exception of assists; the 20 assists last night matched the 20 assists in last year's contest. One other interesting stat - the 13 made threes last night matched the high water mark for made threes last year (13 against Miami and 13 against Coastal Carolina).

At this early juncture, it appears the coaching staff is considering a 9 man rotation - Curfman, Voyles, Obinna, Martin, Conner, Crawford, Fricks, Nutter, and McKey. That is a bit deeper than last year's team, which went primarily with 7 guys. One might expect Goran to see spot duty against particularly big opposing centers. Of course, it is way too early to consider this as the team's final configuration.

You are spot on. Those of us at practice have been expecting it to be that 9 for a few weeks now. I think it is a solid 9

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[coalherd]

I don't know if you knew Dan Shoemaker, he was a great supporter for MU. He use to say that MU was a bad hire away from going down the tube. Unfortunately MU has made some really bad hires for coaching since 2002. Unlike football, you can turn around basketball in one season.  What troubles me about Dan is that he keeps people in his system that don't contribute after 3-4 years. There is no reason to be finishing in the middle of the conference over his career and keep him, unless you are happy with those results. He should be constantly improving the talent pool.

I read a post in anther thread where you questioned Huff's ability to coach players (rightly so). Serious question for you. Is the problem with Dan players poor recruiting or bad player development?

But, but, but FT2 happy go lucky Danny wants to be EVERYBODY'S FRIEND!!  He wants us all to have "FUN"!!!  Some on here actually believe the poster who said Danny has done "a real good job" at MU!!!  That's the real problem at MU, we have TOO MANY FANS who have LITTLE or Real STANDARDS!!  Winning 54 Percent of games played is a "real good job " obviously to too many MORONS who claim to be HERD FANS!! Or else we have a lot of FANS who really take a lot of pleasure, i.e., "have fun", watching very average to mediocre basketball year after year for nearly a DECADE!! After 3, or is it 4, years he and his "crack" coaching staff have so astutely prepared a 7 foot center to such a peak of basketball proficiency that even in a meaningless exhibition game against a NAIA or NCAA D-2 (or is it 3) program he just can't perform as the team needs, even though the opponent probably didn't have a player anywhere nearly his height or size at his position!!  BRILLIANT!!

Danny "could have left" after the NCAAs!!  Wow, that's a new one to a lot of us!  Where to? "Back to Socastee(sp.)?  Never a hint of that ANYWHERE in the Media that I heard of!!  Maybe he told that to a bunch of his "inner circle" Sycophants at a practice session once upon a time.  Only anyone with "Air or Manure" between their ears would believe that Whopper!!

[jdonaccbus]

It's much easier to complain every day on this message board than to ask Dan.

Let's get something straight right now. I don't complain on this message board every day. In fact, my first two posts on this thread weren't complaints. Maybe you could read them again. I did mention that I thought Crawford would get more minutes. It certainly wasn't a complaint. I asked if there were any injuries because I didn't see some names mentioned on the box score. Is there a problem with that? I would hope there wouldn't be because I had no way of knowing. MU didn't do a professional broadcast of the game nor offer live stats. Dan didn't mention it in his post game press conference or whatever they really are. So let me ask you, how was I supposed to know?

Oh, by the way, I live between Baltimore and DC, work my ass off every day and support the program in more ways than you know. So I don't have time to go "watch practice" or "walk in Dan's office door and ask him". That is why I asked questions on a message board as to why certain guys didn't play. But I also consider myself as an investor into Marshall men's basketball. And if we are going to have a 5th-year senior not get any minutes in a scrimmage against a NAIA team, then yeah, I do find that odd and am going to question it.

Am I quite a bit stunned and going to question that we are going to use two of our 13 scholarships to redshirt two juniors? Yes I am. I question it on a message board. Who is that hurting? It shouldn't be hurting no one because this is a place where these things should be hashed out.

But yeah I have complained about how he does this roster. Two juniors will redshirt.....a 5th-year senior gets no run in a runaway scrimmage.....and the other 5th-year senior played a whopping two minutes. If you guys and Dan are offended by me questioning this, I offer no apology. These are four scholarships being used in a way that I can't think of any other Division 1 program in America is utilizing in this manner. Maybe we can get goherd24 to call me a 'clown' or 'turd' again.

I have never said this, but I think it needs to be said. I have just wanted this program to be run to the best of its' ability. I just want a quality mid-major program where the coach does his best to manage the roster with ballers, produce many years when it counts and from time-to-time get some signature wins. I didn't come on here and complain until recently (starting 2 years ago). I have NO personal qualms with Dan. But quite frankly, I think this basketball program is starting to divide amongst supporters. The name-calling on this board shows it. We have one-side of the coin that thinks similar to what I do with some variants. We have the other side of the coin that seems that as long as people get access to practice and access to Dan in his office telling stories, then all is fine and what else do we need.

[herdorbust2]

The thing is, Danny's word isn't 100% right no matter what he says or believes. He has made so many recruiting fails and mistakes you can't count them all. Why some people thinks when he speaks is the Gospel is beyond me. Braun is already in his third year and can't break the 10 deep chart. And a RS is going to help? Toussaint is in his 3rd year and the same. If you need 4-5 years to break into the 10 man rotation guess what? It most likely isn't going to happen. Just tying up scholarships. Imagine if he actually tried to build depth instead of throwing around scholarships that never pan out?

[herdorbust2]

Let's get something straight right now. I don't complain on this message board every day. In fact, my first two posts on this thread weren't complaints. Maybe you could read them again. I did mention that I thought Crawford would get more minutes. It certainly wasn't a complaint. I asked if there were any injuries because I didn't see some names mentioned on the box score. Is there a problem with that? I would hope there wouldn't be because I had no way of knowing. MU didn't do a professional broadcast of the game nor offer live stats. Dan didn't mention it in his post game press conference or whatever they really are. So let me ask you, how was I supposed to know?

Oh, by the way, I live between Baltimore and DC, work my ass off every day and support the program in more ways than you know. So I don't have time to go "watch practice" or "walk in Dan's office door and ask him". That is why I asked questions on a message board as to why certain guys didn't play. But I also consider myself as an investor into Marshall men's basketball. And if we are going to have a 5th-year senior not get any minutes in a scrimmage against a NAIA team, then yeah, I do find that odd and am going to question it.

Am I quite a bit stunned and going to question that we are going to use two of our 13 scholarships to redshirt two juniors? Yes I am. I question it on a message board. Who is that hurting? It shouldn't be hurting no one because this is a place where these things should be hashed out.

But yeah I have complained about how he does this roster. Two juniors will redshirt.....a 5th-year senior gets no run in a runaway scrimmage.....and the other 5th-year senior played a whopping two minutes. If you guys and Dan are offended by me questioning this, I offer no apology. These are four scholarships being used in a way that I can't think of any other Division 1 program in America is utilizing in this manner. Maybe we can get goherd24 to call me a 'clown' or 'turd' again.

I have never said this, but I think it needs to be said. I have just wanted this program to be run to the best of its' ability. I just want a quality mid-major program where the coach does his best to manage the roster with ballers, produce many years when it counts and from time-to-time get some signature wins. I didn't come on here and complain until recently (starting 2 years ago). I have NO personal qualms with Dan. But quite frankly, I think this basketball program is starting to divide amongst supporters. The name-calling on this board shows it. We have one-side of the coin that thinks similar to what I do with some variants. We have the other side of the coin that seems that as long as people get access to practice and access to Dan in his office telling stories, then all is fine and what else do we need.

Damn that was a good post and dead on. Nobody has a personal vendetta with Dan. I've said many times that there is nobody I would rather see succeed. But he is as stubborn and in over his head recruiting. And like you said, there is virtually nobody that would RS juniors that have yet to produce this late in their careers. And bringing back 2 5th years that don't see playing time. He is simply out of touch building a program. 

[MUther]

You are delusional about DD. Divide 54 by eight and let me know the result. Best coach in four decades, are you that gullible?

He's not even 4 decades old.  Has no perspective.  But I grew up around Huckabay.  I went to the SoCon tournaments in Asheville.  I saw the caliber of players we had year in and year out.  Now doesn't even compare in a supposedly better league.  Greg White had better talent on the floor than almost anyone we have recently, barring some exceptions.  Even Herrion brought in great players.  He just couldn't control them.  But he did beat Memphis with them and made the tournament finals against them once in 3 years.  We have had coaches and players that took down good basketball schools on the road that Dan won't even try to play. 

[Garbanjo]

Let's get something straight right now. I don't complain on this message board every day. In fact, my first two posts on this thread weren't complaints. Maybe you could read them again. I did mention that I thought Crawford would get more minutes. It certainly wasn't a complaint. I asked if there were any injuries because I didn't see some names mentioned on the box score. Is there a problem with that? I would hope there wouldn't be because I had no way of knowing. MU didn't do a professional broadcast of the game nor offer live stats. Dan didn't mention it in his post game press conference or whatever they really are. So let me ask you, how was I supposed to know?

Oh, by the way, I live between Baltimore and DC, work my ass off every day and support the program in more ways than you know. So I don't have time to go "watch practice" or "walk in Dan's office door and ask him". That is why I asked questions on a message board as to why certain guys didn't play. But I also consider myself as an investor into Marshall men's basketball. And if we are going to have a 5th-year senior not get any minutes in a scrimmage against a NAIA team, then yeah, I do find that odd and am going to question it.

Am I quite a bit stunned and going to question that we are going to use two of our 13 scholarships to redshirt two juniors? Yes I am. I question it on a message board. Who is that hurting? It shouldn't be hurting no one because this is a place where these things should be hashed out.

But yeah I have complained about how he does this roster. Two juniors will redshirt.....a 5th-year senior gets no run in a runaway scrimmage.....and the other 5th-year senior played a whopping two minutes. If you guys and Dan are offended by me questioning this, I offer no apology. These are four scholarships being used in a way that I can't think of any other Division 1 program in America is utilizing in this manner. Maybe we can get goherd24 to call me a 'clown' or 'turd' again.

I have never said this, but I think it needs to be said. I have just wanted this program to be run to the best of its' ability. I just want a quality mid-major program where the coach does his best to manage the roster with ballers, produce many years when it counts and from time-to-time get some signature wins. I didn't come on here and complain until recently (starting 2 years ago). I have NO personal qualms with Dan. But quite frankly, I think this basketball program is starting to divide amongst supporters. The name-calling on this board shows it. We have one-side of the coin that thinks similar to what I do with some variants. We have the other side of the coin that seems that as long as people get access to practice and access to Dan in his office telling stories, then all is fine and what else do we need.

Great post

Go Herd!

[herdfan129]

They are redshirting them because they know they will not play. I would imagine it was probably the kids that asked for this so as not to burn year of eligibility and after the season will transfer out. Now you will rant about how we should have cut them (i agree but that is besides the point). the kids probably came back hoping to earn time, saw that they did not, so asked to redshirt to save eligibility. We have heard you complaing about DD not taking scholarships from the end of bench guys, so please save that. I was simply answering your question.

If they transfer out at the end of the season then I agree with DD allowing them to redshirt. It would be the right thing to do.

My question for you, if they come back again next season, what will you think of THAT?

[coalherd]

If they transfer out at the end of the season then I agree with DD allowing them to redshirt. It would be the right thing to do.

My question for you, if they come back again next season, what will you think of THAT?

An even better question, 129, would be if they came back again next season and exhibited very little or NO improvement, what will you think of that!!

[HerdFanatic304]

If they transfer out at the end of the season then I agree with DD allowing them to redshirt. It would be the right thing to do.

My question for you, if they come back again next season, what will you think of THAT?

From my talks with the staff, they will be gone. I think there is very slim chance they are back. If they are, I?d be shocked.

[wasbarryb]

From my talks with the staff, they will be gone. I think there is very slim chance they are back. If they are, I?d be shocked.

If what you say is correct, why aren't they gone THIS year?

Keeping them another year with the expectation they will leave is one of the nuttiest things I've ever heard.

[mr_ash_1995]

Ironically, both got Marshall placed on probation.

And just think...guessing, it all would be legal now.  Would've love to see their recruiting in today's environment.

#OffTheChart

[Flat Tire 2]

If what you say is correct, why aren't they gone THIS year?

Keeping them another year with the expectation they will leave is one of the nuttiest things I've ever heard.

I agree, if they were not in the plan why weren't they let go after the end of the spring semester. Maybe they could have found a new program to transfer and play for that team this year? It doesn't sound like Dan has a plan for team personnel? He could have save the basketball program some money?

[scope58]

I have three friends and i take them everywhere i go . Listen Danny ! Their called Defense, Defense and Defense

[herd2win]

It is just dumb that Dan is keeping 25% of his roster that will not contribute.  It would be one thing if they were freshman res shirting but to waste scholarships on 3 people who have been in your system for years makes zero sense.

[muherd34]

It is just dumb that Dan is keeping 25% of his roster that will not contribute.  It would be one thing if they were freshman res shirting but to waste scholarships on 3 people who have been in your system for years makes zero sense.

It doesn't make any sense.  Surely he doesn't believe the loyalty would be reciprocated?  If the bench warmers somehow came in and became huge contributors they would be gone the next season to a P5.  On the flip side, I do respect him for having loyalty and keeping his word.  I just think it is an exercise in futility in this climate.

[herdorbust2]

It is just dumb that Dan is keeping 25% of his roster that will not contribute.  It would be one thing if they were freshman res shirting but to waste scholarships on 3 people who have been in your system for years makes zero sense.

And imagine if he would have just got another Voyles and Martin? It's called REAL depth!!! That is why I gave up. He isn't trying to build a program and he isn't doing everything possible to make the program great. And he doesn't care about fan support or he would try and get the best product on the floor that he could. He is still running it like a high school program. I'll just try and do the best I can with what I've got. When you know that 2 5th year seniors and 2 juniors aren't going to help you but you bring them back tells you all you need to know.

[herdorbust2]

It doesn't make any sense.  Surely he doesn't believe the loyalty would be reciprocated?  If the bench warmers somehow came in and became huge contributors they would be gone the next season to a P5.  On the flip side, I do respect him for having loyalty and keeping his word.  I just think it is an exercise in futility in this climate.

Yes it's great to be loyal. But this is bigtime basketball where fans pay money, players get paid and winning determines tickets. If the kids had nowhere else to go then I would give him a standing ovation. But they can go and get their education lots of other places. I laugh anymore everytime he says his goal is to win the NC every year. Really coach? With keeping D2 players scattered along your bench? He needs to sit and watch Dusty Mays FAU team play and figure out his own system before he talks that nonsense.

[Herdmeister]

Danny played on one of the most successful Marshall teams ever. That team had the vaunted Iron Man 5. Danny, Redd, Stone, Allen and Davidson.
Those five played nearly every minute of every game. The rest of that roster was pretty much there to scrimmage against.
Danny loved that style and toughness. That's why he has wanted to play with 7 or 8 man rotation here. This year he couldn't cut it to 7 or 8 but had to go to 9.
As it was in 1968 it is today, you had to give scholarships to those practice players.


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[herdorbust2]

Danny played on one of the most successful Marshall teams ever. That team had the vaunted Iron Man 5. Danny, Redd, Stone, Allen and Davidson.
Those five played nearly every minute of every game. The rest of that roster was pretty much there to scrimmage against.
Danny loved that style and toughness. That's why he has wanted to play with 7 or 8 man rotation here. This year he couldn't cut it to 7 or 8 but had to go to 9.
As it was in 1968 it is today, you had to give scholarships to those practice players.


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So Danny doesn't believe in trying to get the best 13 players he can for his schollies? He only cares about trying to get 5-7 good players? Don't you think those starters would get better playing against better players in practice? Why practice against D2 players when you could practice against D1 players and have competition and work for your starting spot?