Topic: Pikeville vs Marshall

[Flat Tire 2]

Danny played on one of the most successful Marshall teams ever. That team had the vaunted Iron Man 5. Danny, Redd, Stone, Allen and Davidson.
Those five played nearly every minute of every game. The rest of that roster was pretty much there to scrimmage against.
Danny loved that style and toughness. That's why he has wanted to play with 7 or 8 man rotation here. This year he couldn't cut it to 7 or 8 but had to go to 9.
As it was in 1968 it is today, you had to give scholarships to those practice players.


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I was around (student at MU) in those days. Ellis had a couple of recruits that didn't pan out, sound familiar? The problem we had in those days was when we got into foul trouble, no real depth. Depending on the year, we only had one or two backups like Ricky Hall and Joe Dawson or maybe John Mallet who only played when Allen fouled out. Except for Hall, there was a real drop off in talent. I believe Dawson ended up playing with a bad knee and lost a lot of his quickness and speed?

Times have changed, a lot of teams have gone to full court pressure the entire game. Back in the old days of 1960's, you only pressed when you had to win the game. Most teams played half court offenses in that era, but MU did try to run the fast break.  You now need depth now to handle pressing teams and high power offenses which you didn't see in those day when Dan played. Dan seems to be living in the past, but he is nearly 80 years so I understand. The game has changed over the years and has passed him bye. By the way, what happens if a player is out due to an injury; breaking a team rule of academic trouble?

[MUonium]

i agree with the wait and see crowd before bringing the knives out.
i don't agree now and never did agree with every philosophical aspect of any Herd coach in history no matter the sport. 

what i'd be interested in seeing is the full expectation list that might go hand in hand with each HC contract, whether it be formal or informal.  are these HC expectations inconsistent throughout the AD?  certainly there are differences between revenue generating sports and those that don't make money.  it's obvious Spears is slowly terminating coaches who are not meeting expectations, one at a time, and time will tell if it's done consistently and fairly.

as far as CBB programs broadly, it seems DD's is indeed on the extreme end as opposed to many of the other programs, perhaps more so of perennial top programs as opposed to mid-majors.  from a player/personnel aspect, other programs do seem to be run more like a well oiled business model wherein competition is at the core which determines who will be in uniform and who will not.  i get the fact that the D'Antoni namesake is special and unique to some extent in the world of college coaching and therefore, he has some leeway/demands about how he will run his program. 

personally, i'd be a J. Dillon type and move on if i were riding the bench.  i simply couldn't be a practice punching bag, especially when if i could get educated at no cost somewhere else.  no matter if every other aspect of my college experience was very good, i'd be a player first and and a student second.  i'm sure there may be occasions of familiar reasons (girlfriends/wives/whatever) where a practice squad lifer doesn't want to leave under any circumstances.

anyway, i hope the coaching staff gets more right than wrong on the floor this year
 

[wasbarryb]

Danny played on one of the most successful Marshall teams ever. That team had the vaunted Iron Man 5. Danny, Redd, Stone, Allen and Davidson.
Those five played nearly every minute of every game. The rest of that roster was pretty much there to scrimmage against.
Danny loved that style and toughness. That's why he has wanted to play with 7 or 8 man rotation here. This year he couldn't cut it to 7 or 8 but had to go to 9.
As it was in 1968 it is today, you had to give scholarships to those practice players.


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This isn't 1968. things are very different today and we need a coach that deal with the here and now.  I was in favor of hiring DD and want him to succeed.  If he can't adapt and deal with the realities of today, he needs to go.

[MarshallSteve]

 All I know is this.....Danny is an alum of Marshall. He loves this University deeply. And at times I think its a little embarrassing to see the comments directed toward him on this message board. Especially knowing his connection to the University.

Be careful what you wish for. Like Dan Shoemaker used to say.....we are one bad hire away from being a really, really bad program.

Yeah, Dan isn't perfecr. He's missed on some recruits and probably should have let a few kids walk and used the scholly elsewhere. But that's not Dan. It is what it is.

I hope Dan and the team has a really good season. Go Herd!



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[herdorbust2]

All I know is this.....Danny is an alum of Marshall. He loves this University deeply. And at times I think its a little embarrassing to see the comments directed toward him on this message board. Especially knowing his connection to the University.

Be careful what you wish for. Like Dan Shoemaker used to say.....we are one bad hire away from being a really, really bad program.

Yeah, Dan isn't perfecr. He's missed on some recruits and probably should have let a few kids walk and used the scholly elsewhere. But that's not Dan. It is what it is.

I hope Dan and the team has a really good season. Go Herd!



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What a dumb post. So just accept because it could be worse. That is the Marshall way sadly!!! How about demanding you win a conference regular season title once every ten years. How about not finishing in the middle of the conference on average? How about demanding a coach start recruiting 13 scholarships instead of 6-7? Then why get rid of Huff? It could be worse. Oh wait, all that matters is if you are a son of Marshall and you have a free pass!!!

[parshall2marshall]

I got to thinking that IF the team really meshes well and 1 or 2 guys really emerge ( thinking McKey and Fricks mostly ) then we could win 17-20.
Fricks, IMHO has a ton of potential, he just did not have the real-time presence last season to figure out what he should be doing on offense or defense. Before one knew it the ball was knocked out of his hands and headed the other way, for example. Hopefully with more experience Fricks can be a force.

[theherd011569]

All I know is this.....Danny is an alum of Marshall. He loves this University deeply. And at times I think its a little embarrassing to see the comments directed toward him on this message board. Especially knowing his connection to the University.

Be careful what you wish for. Like Dan Shoemaker used to say.....we are one bad hire away from being a really, really bad program.

Yeah, Dan isn't perfecr. He's missed on some recruits and probably should have let a few kids walk and used the scholly elsewhere. But that's not Dan. It is what it is.

I hope Dan and the team has a really good season. Go Herd!



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I would agree with Dan being a great guy and a tremendous ambassador for MU and I greatly appreciate him for that. Just not sure that is a reason to keep him as our coach. I am around really great people every day that I may not necessarily target to run my business on a daily basis.

The ?be careful what you wish for? part is the thing that gets me. I want nothing more than this team to win every game and I will watch every one of them that I possibly can. But changing coaches/managers/leaders/executives is sometimes a necessity and you cannot be paralyzed by that statement.

And I just posted on another thread that I rarely post yet this is #2 for the day?I?ve reached my monthly quota so I will sign off and read for a while in the peripheral.


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[HerdFanatic304]

If what you say is correct, why aren't they gone THIS year?

Keeping them another year with the expectation they will leave is one of the nuttiest things I've ever heard.

They kept them because they don?t cut kids. It?s my understanding that the kids themselves stayed hoping to win playing time, they have not. They have since asked to redshirt with the intention to save eligibility to transfer after season.

[Always THE HERD]

They kept them because they don?t cut kids. It?s my understanding that the kids themselves stayed hoping to win playing time, they have not. They have since asked to redshirt with the intention to save eligibility to transfer after season.

Is this a true statement regarding the players intention to transfer at the end of the 23-24 season?

[HerdFanatic304]

Is this a true statement regarding the players intention to transfer at the end of the 23-24 season?

This is what I?ve been told

[herdfifteen]

I would agree with Dan being a great guy and a tremendous ambassador for MU and I greatly appreciate him for that. Just not sure that is a reason to keep him as our coach. I am around really great people every day that I may not necessarily target to run my business on a daily basis.

The ?be careful what you wish for? part is the thing that gets me. I want nothing more than this team to win every game and I will watch every one of them that I possibly can. But changing coaches/managers/leaders/executives is sometimes a necessity and you cannot be paralyzed by that statement.

And I just posted on another thread that I rarely post yet this is #2 for the day?I?ve reached my monthly quota so I will sign off and read for a while in the peripheral.


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Your posts are terrific, we need people like you posting more!

[Herd72]

I am nearly the same age as Danny - Mike and I had several classes together. I coached wrestling for 30 years. Eventually one?s energy level and mobility level make it time to retire even if one?s mental sharpness does not decline. I left coaching in 2011 because I felt that it was time for a whole new generation to take over. I loved coaching and retired when my teams were dominant before my age could affect their ability to win. I think the world of Coach Dan and he is a true Son of Marshall but no one beats Father Time.

[jdonaccbus]

Less than six days until the first regular season game and the Marshall Athletic site does not list this game as being broadcast on ESPN+.

What is the deal? What is the plan? Is this another Marshall "only certain fans get to know the plan and you just donate your money"?

The usuals can call me a "complainer" and that is fine. There is no intellectual points to be made when all you have to do is throw out an insult. It doesn't take any thinking. But I think it will be a real bad look if we go into the season and don't broadcast regular season games when the platform is readily available.

[ru4mu2]

Less than six days until the first regular season game and the Marshall Athletic site does not list this game as being broadcast on ESPN+.

What is the deal? What is the plan? Is this another Marshall "only certain fans get to know the plan and you just donate your money"?

The usuals can call me a "complainer" and that is fine. There is no intellectual points to be made when all you have to do is throw out an insult. It doesn't take any thinking. But I think it will be a real bad look if we go into the season and don't broadcast regular season games when the platform is readily available.

Not sure where you looked for this readily available information, but it's scheduled to be on espn+.  If Herdzone is where you looked, probably just not updated yet. 
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/schedule

[Herdmeister]

Less than six days until the first regular season game and the Marshall Athletic site does not list this game as being broadcast on ESPN+.

What is the deal? What is the plan? Is this another Marshall "only certain fans get to know the plan and you just donate your money"?

The usuals can call me a "complainer" and that is fine. There is no intellectual points to be made when all you have to do is throw out an insult. It doesn't take any thinking. But I think it will be a real bad look if we go into the season and don't broadcast regular season games when the platform is readily available.

It was announced in August that every Marshall event that is ticketed will be on ESPN+ at a minimum. In other words any game that you need to buy a ticket.
It was also announced a week ago or so that Mark Martin and Ot Elmore will handle the men's games.

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[goherd24]

Damn that was a good post and dead on. Nobody has a personal vendetta with Dan. I've said many times that there is nobody I would rather see succeed. But he is as stubborn and in over his head recruiting. And like you said, there is virtually nobody that would RS juniors that have yet to produce this late in their careers. And bringing back 2 5th years that don't see playing time. He is simply out of touch building a program.

Lol i think you need to take a step back and see how you act, and post towards our basketball program, read the definition of vendetta, and then do some self reflecting.

You'd be surprised at what you would find out about yourself. You absolutely have a vendetta against Dan.

[herdorbust2]

Lol i think you need to take a step back and see how you act, and post towards our basketball program, read the definition of vendetta, and then do some self reflecting.

You'd be surprised at what you would find out about yourself. You absolutely have a vendetta against Dan.

Yes I do. It's called not supporting a coach that won't do the job he is getting paid to do. So yes I admit it. And I want a coach that will recruit 13 scholarships and not 7-8. Also would like to see a coach, coach on game day instead of being a spectator with arms crossed. So I hope I cleared that up for you.

[herdorbust2]

Less than six days until the first regular season game and the Marshall Athletic site does not list this game as being broadcast on ESPN+.

What is the deal? What is the plan? Is this another Marshall "only certain fans get to know the plan and you just donate your money"?

The usuals can call me a "complainer" and that is fine. There is no intellectual points to be made when all you have to do is throw out an insult. It doesn't take any thinking. But I think it will be a real bad look if we go into the season and don't broadcast regular season games when the platform is readily available.

If you go to the Queens site it shows espn+. Marshall just doesn't update very well and is always dragging their feet. So it's probably best to go to the opposing school site to get info about our school.

[Buffalo Bop]

The exhibition game tonight is not on ESPN +.

[NewfieHerdFan]

I've noticed the "Be careful what you wish for" statement in various threads where the conversation is steered toward either Dan or Doc. Honestly, you can't accept mediocrity (or worse) because:

A) you're too afraid to take a chance on getting better
B) you're friends with a coach and them leaving will cost you inside information, privilege, etc.
C) a coach has either friends/relatives (or both) in power positions and they will thwart any attempt at removal

I totally respect Dan for his love of Marshall (and being a former student/player) and really, really hope he turns it around and we have a winning season. If we don't, well, then it really is time for a change.

[svherd]

It was announced in August that every Marshall event that is ticketed will be on ESPN+ at a minimum. In other words any game that you need to buy a ticket.
It was also announced a week ago or so that Mark Martin and Ot Elmore will handle the men's games.

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Unless you get the emails or on social media, that wouldn't be known. It's not in the HD and local media. Not every fan gets the emails or is on social media looking for Marshall information. Heck, some likely don't know how to access it. lol!

[Herdmeister]

Unless you get the emails or on social media, that wouldn't be known. It's not in the HD and local media. Not every fan gets the emails or is on social media looking for Marshall information. Heck, some likely don't know how to access it. lol!

The HD actually published the statement from Spears at the beginning of the school year that all would be televised. Sorry I didn't post it for you

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[goherd73]

If you go to ESPN+ site then go to Sunbelt and follow along upcoming games you'll see the MU-Queens game listed for Monday.

[jdonaccbus]

If you go to ESPN+ site then go to Sunbelt and follow along upcoming games you'll see the MU-Queens game listed for Monday.

I have it on my TV. I guess I should have just checked there. An over-reaction on my part. I apologize.

I do think the athletic site should get it up on their site as that is where I did check first. I am a bit of an old dinosaur so I do tend to revert back to the school athletic site. But maybe I am just too much of a basketball fanatic.

I plan on trying to go see the women live against George Mason. GMU is tough this year. I hope fans give Caldwell some time to get the team getting some steam. I think by January that team will start cranking it up.

[chris88]

I have it on my TV. I guess I should have just checked there. An over-reaction on my part. I apologize.

I do think the athletic site should get it up on their site as that is where I did check first. I am a bit of an old dinosaur so I do tend to revert back to the school athletic site. But maybe I am just too much of a basketball fanatic.

I plan on trying to go see the women live against George Mason. GMU is tough this year. I hope fans give Caldwell some time to get the team getting some steam. I think by January that team will start cranking it up.

George Mason was picked 8th out of 15 A10 teams. Last year they were picked 14th but finished 9th at 8-8 in A10 and 16-15 overall. They were 11-4 at home and played a pretty good schedule. Their NET rating at end of year was 174. Marshall was 185 so close in that regard. They have a 3rd team all conf preseason pick that is 6'2 (former volleyball player at UNC-Charlotte). We may have a shot in that GM opens season 3 days before playing us. At first that may seem an advantage for them but with the way Coach Kim will press it will depend on their depth. Look forward to your post game report.