Topic: Huff Win %

[HerdEcon]

Over mid way in his third season after 34 games Huff's win percentage is .588.

Doc Holliday 11 seasons, 139 games, .612 win percentage.

Mark Snyder 5 years, 60 games, .392 win percentage.

I'm not sure those are legit apple to apple comparisons.  Snyder followed Pruett who admittedly let recruiting go downhill in his final years but still had a good core and winning culture but suffered NCAA sanctions.  Holliday took on a rebuilding job after the Snyder years and NCAA sanctions which may have hurt his early win percentages.  Huff took over after Holliday, didn't have to rebuild but simply improve.  However, Huff seems to be fading as the Holliday recruits exit the program.  More importantly Huff has advantages neither Snyder nor Holliday had... the transfer portal and NIL.  Huff also got a 6th year of player eligibility due to the Covid year, another advantage.

I think the transfer portal and NIL has changed college football to a degree that comparisons prior those two things aren't really fair apples to apples comparisons. 

The people that believe the Sub Belt is a huge step above the CUSA in competition level should be happy that Huff's win percentage hasn't dropped off much.  I'm one of those people that believe there is a lot of parity between G5 conferences and not a huge difference in competition levels.  One G5 conference may be better than another top to bottom but the top teams and middle teams are close.  The lesser conferences may have more poor performing teams or the top teams may be a couple players shy of being on par with any other  top G5 team. 

Bottom line, I'm not happy with a .588 win percentage in year 3 even though we may be in a slightly better conference.  Huff has advantages his two most recent predecessors didn't have namely, the transfer portal, NIL, and the Covid year.  To me he is underperforming.  Huff was not facing a rebuilding situation or NCAA sanctions he just needed to maintain the talent level he was given and make some improvement.  Hopefully, Huff can turn it around this season.

[Flat Tire 2]

Just curious, are you happy with Dan since his winning per percentage which is .562?

[gochneaur645]

Every other team in the country got a 6th year for covid. They're also free to use the portal and NIL. How on earth would that be an advantage to Huff when comparing results to Doc?

And the Sun Belt East is far and away the best G5 division/conference according to any computer ranking this season. It is in fact a huge step up from the horrific C-USA at the end of Doc's tenure.

I'm all for letting Huff go after this season if we don't turn things around really soon, but this is some weird ass revisionist Docaganda.

[elginherd]

Just curious, are you happy with Dan since his winning per percentage which is .562?

I don't think none of us are thrilled.

But Huff walked into a 7-3 team with a roster that many on here think includes most of Doc's best players.

DD followed Heart Attack Herrion, who left the proverbial cupboard with a few crumbs. 

[svherd]

Snyder was not ready to be an HC, played brutal schedules; Doc the easiest. That plays into it as well. I look at quality wins, consistency and blowout losses. Huff has some solid wins, no consistency, poor coaching hires. Doc was the king of blowout losses, team turmoil and police blotter gems.

[MicDrass1]

Huff has won games Holliday never would have won. 

[Garbanjo]

Over mid way in his third season after 34 games Huff's win percentage is .588.

Doc Holliday 11 seasons, 139 games, .612 win percentage.

Mark Snyder 5 years, 60 games, .392 win percentage.

I'm not sure those are legit apple to apple comparisons.  Snyder followed Pruett who admittedly let recruiting go downhill in his final years but still had a good core and winning culture but suffered NCAA sanctions.  Holliday took on a rebuilding job after the Snyder years and NCAA sanctions which may have hurt his early win percentages.  Huff took over after Holliday, didn't have to rebuild but simply improve.  However, Huff seems to be fading as the Holliday recruits exit the program.  More importantly Huff has advantages neither Snyder nor Holliday had... the transfer portal and NIL.  Huff also got a 6th year of player eligibility due to the Covid year, another advantage.

I think the transfer portal and NIL has changed college football to a degree that comparisons prior those two things aren't really fair apples to apples comparisons. 

The people that believe the Sub Belt is a huge step above the CUSA in competition level should be happy that Huff's win percentage hasn't dropped off much.  I'm one of those people that believe there is a lot of parity between G5 conferences and not a huge difference in competition levels.  One G5 conference may be better than another top to bottom but the top teams and middle teams are close.  The lesser conferences may have more poor performing teams or the top teams may be a couple players shy of being on par with any other  top G5 team. 

Bottom line, I'm not happy with a .588 win percentage in year 3 even though we may be in a slightly better conference.  Huff has advantages his two most recent predecessors didn't have namely, the transfer portal, NIL, and the Covid year.  To me he is underperforming.  Huff was not facing a rebuilding situation or NCAA sanctions he just needed to maintain the talent level he was given and make some improvement.  Hopefully, Huff can turn it around this season.

Huff blows

He's basically Doc and that's not good enough

Put him out

[Garbanjo]

Just curious, are you happy with Dan since his winning per percentage which is .562?

At this stage? No

It's time for DD to move on

[herdorbust2]

Over mid way in his third season after 34 games Huff's win percentage is .588.

Doc Holliday 11 seasons, 139 games, .612 win percentage.

Mark Snyder 5 years, 60 games, .392 win percentage.

I'm not sure those are legit apple to apple comparisons.  Snyder followed Pruett who admittedly let recruiting go downhill in his final years but still had a good core and winning culture but suffered NCAA sanctions.  Holliday took on a rebuilding job after the Snyder years and NCAA sanctions which may have hurt his early win percentages.  Huff took over after Holliday, didn't have to rebuild but simply improve.  However, Huff seems to be fading as the Holliday recruits exit the program.  More importantly Huff has advantages neither Snyder nor Holliday had... the transfer portal and NIL.  Huff also got a 6th year of player eligibility due to the Covid year, another advantage.

I think the transfer portal and NIL has changed college football to a degree that comparisons prior those two things aren't really fair apples to apples comparisons. 

The people that believe the Sub Belt is a huge step above the CUSA in competition level should be happy that Huff's win percentage hasn't dropped off much.  I'm one of those people that believe there is a lot of parity between G5 conferences and not a huge difference in competition levels.  One G5 conference may be better than another top to bottom but the top teams and middle teams are close.  The lesser conferences may have more poor performing teams or the top teams may be a couple players shy of being on par with any other  top G5 team. 

Bottom line, I'm not happy with a .588 win percentage in year 3 even though we may be in a slightly better conference.  Huff has advantages his two most recent predecessors didn't have namely, the transfer portal, NIL, and the Covid year.  To me he is underperforming.  Huff was not facing a rebuilding situation or NCAA sanctions he just needed to maintain the talent level he was given and make some improvement.  Hopefully, Huff can turn it around this season.

Doc played a high school schedule in conference.

[forphase1]

Huff has won games Holliday never would have won.

True.  But he's also lost the same ridiculous games that Doc frequently lost.  He IS Doc, with better talking points and the ability to 'get up' for the big game, but that's about it.  Otherwise we replaced Doc with another Doc.

[HerdEcon]

Just curious, are you happy with Dan since his winning per percentage which is .562?

I'm not a basketball person so I leave that argument to the people that know more about the basketball landscape and follow basketball a lot closer than I do. 

[herd2win]

Huffs offense and staff hires are historically bad.

[HerdEcon]

Every other team in the country got a 6th year for covid. They're also free to use the portal and NIL. How on earth would that be an advantage to Huff when comparing results to Doc?

And the Sun Belt East is far and away the best G5 division/conference according to any computer ranking this season. It is in fact a huge step up from the horrific C-USA at the end of Doc's tenure.

I'm all for letting Huff go after this season if we don't turn things around really soon, but this is some weird ass revisionist Docaganda.

The difference I see pre and post transfer portal is that prior to the transfer portal rebuilding a program took multiple years of recruiting.  Now a coach can rebuild a program in one off season similar to what WKU did a few seasons ago when they brought in the OC and best players from Houston Baptist.  WKU went from no offense and last place or near last place in the conference to conference champs in one season. 

I didn't mean my comparison to be limited only to Marshall it applies to all college teams.  It skewes the win % comparison if a coach has the ability to turn a team around in a single season opposed to waiting two or three recruiting cycles.

[puma]

Every other team in the country got a 6th year for covid. They're also free to use the portal and NIL. How on earth would that be an advantage to Huff when comparing results to Doc?

And the Sun Belt East is far and away the best G5 division/conference according to any computer ranking this season. It is in fact a huge step up from the horrific C-USA at the end of Doc's tenure.

I'm all for letting Huff go after this season if we don't turn things around really soon, but this is some weird ass revisionist Docaganda.

With the exception of ODU (and maybe Marshall in a week), the entire Sun Belt East is in the Sagarin top 100. It's kind of amazing. I don't think even C-USA 2.0 accomplished that back in the days when Memphis, Tulane, and UAB were bottom feeders. C-USA 3.0 definitely didn't come anywhere close. We had seasons there majority of opponents weren't even top 120 programs.

For an apples to apples comparison, the closest schedules Doc had were from 2010 to 2012 before the core of the conference left. He went 5-7, 7-6, 5-7. Not all that different than Huff's first 3 years. I'm also not convinced the 2020 team he inherited was exactly stacked, when they were openly brawling in the west lot a couple months prior, and was the same team that dropped 3 games in a row and had to duck out from one against Charlotte.

Even if Huff scrapes another couple of wins and a bowl this season, I still think he needs to hit the road. But that still doesn't mean Doc was a good coach. He was incredibly fortunate that most of C-USA left for the AAC when his seat started to get warm.

Hell, I'd even go as far as saying Huff should be fired for his incredibly poor choices for OC and DC. The buck stops with that man.

[Flat Tire 2]

I don't think none of us are thrilled.

But Huff walked into a 7-3 team with a roster that many on here think includes most of Doc's best players.

DD followed Heart Attack Herrion, who left the proverbial cupboard with a few crumbs.

Well, you could say that Dan did inherited some talented players, maybe some were head cases? Since Dan was just a high school coach, I guess he didn't want the challenge of trying to mold them into a team?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012%E2%80%9313_Marshall_Thundering_Herd_men%27s_basketball_team

It really doesn't matter, Dan and Huff are both not very good coaches and recruiters.

[bbcard1]

I think it's really easy to see some things from the outside.

Mark was not ready to be a head coach. He was left with relatively few weapons, which hurt. What he did have and was unable to capitalize on is that he inherited a winning culture. It was not his fault he took the job, it was our fault that we offered it. He seemed to get more and more lost as he went along.

Doc was a very good transitional coach to help us get back to some semblance of our former program. He was as ready as he would have ever been when he got the job. Had he been able to do two things, he would probably still be here. One was to win the game vs. WVU which he blew. The second was to maintain the 2020 momentum, most notably, just to pull Grant vs. the Rice game and let Knox pound the ball...things just spun out after that.

Huff has shown signs of learning to coach. His staff has been weak (and sadly has had a Marshall flavor). He is also unaccustomed to not having a deep program. Like Snyder, he was probably a little early in getting the job.

Where that leaves us I have no idea.

[MUther]

I think it's really easy to see some things from the outside.

Mark was not ready to be a head coach. He was left with relatively few weapons, which hurt. What he did have and was unable to capitalize on is that he inherited a winning culture. It was not his fault he took the job, it was our fault that we offered it. He seemed to get more and more lost as he went along.

Doc was a very good transitional coach to help us get back to some semblance of our former program. He was as ready as he would have ever been when he got the job. Had he been able to do two things, he would probably still be here. One was to win the game vs. WVU which he blew. The second was to maintain the 2020 momentum, most notably, just to pull Grant vs. the Rice game and let Knox pound the ball...things just spun out after that.

Huff has shown signs of learning to coach. His staff has been weak (and sadly has had a Marshall flavor). He is also unaccustomed to not having a deep program. Like Snyder, he was probably a little early in getting the job.

Where that leaves us I have no idea.

Doc lucked into Cato and that sums up his career here.  No way he has that win percentage without Cato and being in the worst conference in football at the time.  And percentage isn't everything.  He gave us our worst home losses in modern history.  I agree it's time to move on from Huff, but he will always be remembered for Notre Dame.  Doc will be forgotten in a generation.

[whf]

I think it's really easy to see some things from the outside.

Mark was not ready to be a head coach. He was left with relatively few weapons, which hurt. What he did have and was unable to capitalize on is that he inherited a winning culture. It was not his fault he took the job, it was our fault that we offered it. He seemed to get more and more lost as he went along.

Doc was a very good transitional coach to help us get back to some semblance of our former program. He was as ready as he would have ever been when he got the job. Had he been able to do two things, he would probably still be here. One was to win the game vs. WVU which he blew. The second was to maintain the 2020 momentum, most notably, just to pull Grant vs. the Rice game and let Knox pound the ball...things just spun out after that.

Huff has shown signs of learning to coach. His staff has been weak (and sadly has had a Marshall flavor). He is also unaccustomed to not having a deep program. Like Snyder, he was probably a little early in getting the job.

Where that leaves us I have no idea.

Great post, I'd add that Huff is having to adjust to a culture he wasn't at all involved in with college football, a really "local" spirit with moderate capabilities financially and highest expectations results-wise.  I could be wrong, but it is a lot easier to be a great recruiter when the places you're recruiting to get great players, no matter who's representing the school.

I don't know that we have time with him, but I do believe (maybe I just want to believe) that he'll be a very good coach some day.  It will depend on who he decides to place around him; he's gambled this year and it failed him.  I actually think the talent in Hton right now can win the east next year; exprience matters  He bet on inexperienced coordinators and building a team with what he felt was higher talent and NO PLAYING experince.  I'm betting he is a quick learner and won't repeat the mistakes he's made so far.  I'm also betting he is more aware of what actually turned out to be mistakes than any of us; although we just (me included) keep guessing at them.

[svherd]

Doc lucked into Cato and that sums up his career here.  No way he has that win percentage without Cato and being in the worst conference in football at the time.  And percentage isn't everything.  He gave us our worst home losses in modern history.  I agree it's time to move on from Huff, but he will always be remembered for Notre Dame.  Doc will be forgotten in a generation.

Great point. Without Cato we'd really be a very average program for the last two decades.

[bbcard1]

Doc lucked into Cato and that sums up his career here.  No way he has that win percentage without Cato and being in the worst conference in football at the time.  And percentage isn't everything.  He gave us our worst home losses in modern history.  I agree it's time to move on from Huff, but he will always be remembered for Notre Dame.  Doc will be forgotten in a generation.

I sincerely doubt that we would compete at ND or won at home vs. VT for that matter with Doc. While Cato was a good get, you can't fault his luck there...Litton was also luck, but just bad luck dressed up to look like a good bet.

[BigJimslade]

What if he plays Penny2.0 !!!???
That guy can fake !!

[Green Dog]

What if he plays Penny2.0 !!!???
That guy can fake !!

Huff has shown he's very capable of faking too. He talked his way into a HC job with nearly zero experience for
such a position. He has been learning on the job for 2.5 years. I hope he's capable of admitting and learning from
his mistakes. Its painfully obvious those in charge of hiring coaches, never learned a thing from the Mark Snyder hire.

[Flat Tire 2]

I'm not a basketball person so I leave that argument to the people that know more about the basketball landscape and follow basketball a lot closer than I do.

IHO you don't have to be a basketball "expert" or follow the program closely to make a judgement. Dan's winning percentage is worst than Huff's record and his teams under perform like football.