Topic: MU vs USC soccer thread

[elginherd]

I'm sorry no way we win a natty in a regular year. We haven't even remotely had the same success as we did that year. That is a fact. It doesn't mean we aren't good

IMO, last season was an big success.
True that we fell to Stanford due to some unbelievable plays by the Cardinal defenders, but winning regular season championship, and then beating the piss and blue to win the conference tournament, made for a great year.

[Garbanjo]

IMO, last season was an big success.
True that we fell to Stanford due to some unbelievable plays by the Cardinal defenders, but winning regular season championship, and then beating the piss and blue to win the conference tournament, made for a great year.

Beating WVU in futbol is a must win every year

[2xBison]

You spelled Covid wrong.

Silly comment.


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[Jbabbington]

I'm sorry no way we win a natty in a regular year. We haven't even remotely had the same success as we did that year. That is a fact. It doesn't mean we aren't good

"Haven't even remotely had the same success"

Our team last year was so good that despite our loss in the S16, we still finished #1 in the RPI.

That is both a mind boggling stat, as well as infuriating one.


The COVID argument is a very weak argument if you really think about it,. Just for starters, that Clemson squad we beat was littered with players who started on their recent Natty squads. That Indiana squad was loaded with R1 MLS Picks, as well as the UNC squad who we played in NC.

I would be more inclined to believe the "COVID Season" was a fluke if afterwards we absolutely flatlined.

[Garbanjo]

"Haven't even remotely had the same success"

Our team last year was so good that despite our loss in the S16, we still finished #1 in the RPI.

That is both a mind boggling stat, as well as infuriating one.


The COVID argument is a very weak argument if you really think about it,. Just for starters, that Clemson squad we beat was littered with players who started on their recent Natty squads. That Indiana squad was loaded with R1 MLS Picks, as well as the UNC squad who we played in NC.

I would be more inclined to believe the "COVID Season" was a fluke if afterwards we absolutely flatlined.

It wasn?t a fluke. We were the best team in the country.

Of course I want more after that taste of glory, but we are in great hands with Grassie

[Jbabbington]

It wasn?t a fluke. We were the best team in the country.

Of course I want more after that taste of glory, but we are in great hands with Grassie

It by no means was a fluke, and that argument is extremely weak.

[marshallmark]

It wasn?t a fluke. We were the best team in the country.

Of course I want more after that taste of glory, but we are in great hands with Grassie

Clemson dominated the game that year vs Marshall, but this is soccer and the best team doesn't necessarily win the match.  We were good and lucky enough to win the whole thing, but there's no way you can say MU was the best team in the country.  Maybe, maybe top 5.  But, again, that doesn't matter at all.  You win on the pitch and the Herd did just that.

[2xBison]

Clemson dominated the game that year vs Marshall, but this is soccer and the best team doesn't necessarily win the match.  We were good and lucky enough to win the whole thing, but there's no way you can say MU was the best team in the country.  Maybe, maybe top 5.  But, again, that doesn't matter at all.  You win on the pitch and the Herd did just that.

LMAO...."no way you can say MU was the best team in the country" after winning a National Championship.  I'm pretty sure most would define the national champion winning team of any sport as the best team in the country.  I also would agree that many would disagree about "the best" depending on upsets etc.  But to confidently state "there's no way you can say..." is laughable. 

good one.

[marshallmark]

LMAO...."no way you can say MU was the best team in the country" after winning a National Championship.  I'm pretty sure most would define the national champion winning team of any sport as the best team in the country.  I also would agree that many would disagree about "the best" depending on upsets etc.  But to confidently state "there's no way you can say..." is laughable. 

good one.

Don't be an ass.  The question was about whether MU was the best team playing in college soccer that year.  We were not.

That's like saying the Giants were the best team in the NFL the year they beat New England.  Not hardly. 

[chris88]

My thoughts/opinions

- Back line was a mess. We gave them a goal and had many other To's from backline and MF. Holmes was decent overall but had two really bad TO's.  Just not connected on defense at all. GK did make two really good saves.

- Offense seemed to get better as game went along.

- My opinion is if we are going to go with 3 forwards it should be: Linkier on left, Kong in middle due to size and athleticism, and Silva on right. 4 MFs: Pahnholder (sp), Stjerngaard, Okiyoshi, Simon. WB: Pinto, Godard. CB: Bamford, Fujita/Vukovich. GK: A would give Rose slight edge. Holmes deserves time as does Sorto (did he play?) and others. I just think it's time more a more set lineup so we can get some chemistry and continuity. I'm sure Grassie will get it figured out.

- Overall not our best effort but we got 3 important road points (not sure why SC announcer kept saying a win is two points).

- In about a week we jumped from in 30's in RPI to #13. Last night CSF helped us again by upsetting #15 ranked San Diego 2-0 on road. High Point and others helped as well with quality results.  We have played a really good schedule that will get even tougher. VCU this week is #7 RPI so it's a very big game.

- Congrats to women to start conf play on road with tie. Texas State, however, is much better than Ga State. Volleyball finished ooc slate with sweep of UNCG

- We weren't the most talented team when we won title but we were the best unit (team). Clemson did not dominate the game vs us. UNC did but our defense gave us a chnace and we took it. I thought we were most talented team last year but you have to win it on field to get the hardware.

[svherd]

Don't be an ass.  The question was about whether MU was the best team playing in college soccer that year.  We were not.

That's like saying the Giants were the best team in the NFL the year they beat New England.  Not hardly.

WOW! We won on the pitch, on a neutral site. We were the best team, regardless. I have never seen a fan base so damn hell bent in disproving any success we have, as this one.

We won in COVID year
Clemson wasn't good when we beat them in 99
South Carolina wasn't good when we beat them in 98
LA Tech was missing several defensive starters in 2014
Basketball got lucky against Witchita State.
And so on.

Just mind boggling to read such tripe.

[marshallmark]

WOW! We won on the pitch, on a neutral site. We were the best team, regardless. I have never seen a fan base so damn hell bent in disproving any success we have, as this one.

We won in COVID year
Clemson wasn't good when we beat them in 99
South Carolina wasn't good when we beat them in 98
LA Tech was missing several defensive starters in 2014
Basketball got lucky against Witchita State.
And so on.

Just mind boggling to read such tripe.

I've forgotten more Marshall history than you can recall so don't call me out. 

We were attempting to have a civil conversation about whether MU was, in fact, the best team in 2020/2021.  Not if they were the most accomplished (they were), or if they won the Natty (they did).  MU got damn lucky during the run of the tournament, and beat 2 teams that dominated play against them (UNC and Clemson) - considering that Chris likes to play with possession, the fact that we won either is amazing and perhaps divinely inspired.  You can win a match - ESPECIALLY in soccer - without being the best side.  Its just the way the game is.  IMO, Indiana was the worst team we played in the entire tournament. 

[svherd]

I've forgotten more Marshall history than you can recall so don't call me out. 

We were attempting to have a civil conversation about whether MU was, in fact, the best team in 2020/2021.  Not if they were the most accomplished (they were), or if they won the Natty (they did).  MU got damn lucky during the run of the tournament, and beat 2 teams that dominated play against them (UNC and Clemson) - considering that Chris likes to play with possession, the fact that we won either is amazing and perhaps divinely inspired.  You can win a match - ESPECIALLY in soccer - without being the best side.  Its just the way the game is.  IMO, Indiana was the worst team we played in the entire tournament.

I know your background and respect it greatly but like you, I have been a Marshall fan since I was a kid on the early 60's. Heck, I was a ball boy for Ellwoods time here. That said, it just pisses me off when someone tries to diminish our accomplishments. We won it on the field, against bigger schools with more money and better facilities. That's all I need to know or care about. We can speculate all we want but we won the title, end of story.

[MUther]

Didn't see mentioned that the tournament was moved to springtime of 2021, as well, and COVID was well settled down by then in terms of quarantined players and teams.  Had little effect on actual games in the tournament environment like it might have on the regular season games in fall of 2020. 

We have been in the thick of it every fall AND spring since then, winning the spring tournaments most years against good squads and going fairly deep into the NCAA tournament in the fall.  I mean we're losing to some of the best teams to ever play the game when we do, like Stanford last year.  And we've notched plenty of big names in our own right. 

This thread took a really dumb turn after a really good win.

[marshallmark]

I know your background and respect it greatly but like you, I have been a Marshall fan since I was a kid on the early 60's. Heck, I was a ball boy for Ellwoods time here. That said, it just pisses me off when someone tries to diminish our accomplishments. We won it on the field, against bigger schools with more money and better facilities. That's all I need to know or care about. We can speculate all we want but we won the title, end of story.

That's fair.  Its a different type of accomplishment.  When MU rolled over everyone in 1996, it was supposed to.  It was extremely satisfying to live up to expectations and pound on teams that beat us for years.  In 1997, I think everyone thought we'd be MAC-level good, but to win the conference was not unexpected and, again, deeply satisfying.  The soccer championship was NOT expected, and the lads played out of their collective butt to get where they got.  In a very real way, to win that way is even MORE satisfying.

I wouldn't count the basketball team's win over Wichita State in the same category b/c we flat beat them and the betting line was way off.  If we played Wichita State 10 times, I think we win 5-6 times.  I equate the soccer championship to, for instance, the Notre Dame game.  We would likely lose 8-9 games played at Notre Dame with the same teams, but on that one day in 2022, magic happened.   

[svherd]

That's fair.  Its a different type of accomplishment.  When MU rolled over everyone in 1996, it was supposed to.  It was extremely satisfying to live up to expectations and pound on teams that beat us for years.  In 1997, I think everyone thought we'd be MAC-level good, but to win the conference was not unexpected and, again, deeply satisfying.  The soccer championship was NOT expected, and the lads played out of their collective butt to get where they got.  In a very real way, to win that way is even MORE satisfying.

I wouldn't count the basketball team's win over Wichita State in the same category b/c we flat beat them and the betting line was way off.  If we played Wichita State 10 times, I think we win 5-6 times.  I equate the soccer championship to, for instance, the Notre Dame game.  We would likely lose 8-9 games played at Notre Dame with the same teams, but on that one day in 2022, magic happened.   

It's like the Kansas State win in football. People said, well we won because their backup QB was playing. Ours was as well. It happens to everyone. We won and we should enjoy that, and other victories over the big boys, regardless of circumstances. jmho.

[2xBison]

I've forgotten more Marshall history than you can recall so don't call me out. 

are you the same guy saying don't be an ass?  Unbelievable.

We heard your opinion, I laughed at it.  You don't think it's reasonable for a national champ to claim to be the best? This is the way the champion is determined just like basketball.  Offer your opinion that's fine, but excuse us if some think winning the ncaa sanctioned tournament is the best way to determine "the best".  NCAA tourney? Or some guys opinion (even though offered as fact)...

We heard your thoughts and are very impressed.


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[2xBison]

Don't be an ass.  The question was about whether MU was the best team playing in college soccer that year.  We were not.

That's like saying the Giants were the best team in the NFL the year they beat New England.  Not hardly.

Did they win the Super Bowl? Then they were. 

Sorry, we have Super Bowl champs, ncaa tourney champs etc not anything that I recall that says Marshall Marks best team.  Hey I'm reasonable and said it's reasonable to opine other non champs were better but to be obtuse and offer your opinion as a unquestionable fact, is well laughable.  I'm still laughing.


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[marshallmark]

Did they win the Super Bowl? Then they were. 

Sorry, we have Super Bowl champs, ncaa tourney champs etc not anything that I recall that says Marshall Marks best team.  Hey I'm reasonable and said it's reasonable to opine other non champs were better but to be obtuse and offer your opinion as a unquestionable fact, is well laughable.  I'm still laughing.

Good then that I don't give a rat's a$$. 

[2xBison]

Good then that I don't give a rat's a$$.

Good.  But don't be an @ss.  Have a good day.


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[ThunderingHerdFan]

I disagree that we were dominated in the run of play by Clemson and especially UNC. 

Each team tallied 12 shots.  3 of Clemson's were on goal, two of Marshall's were on goal. 

Marshall made 2 saves, Clemson made 1.

Clemson had 14 corner kicks, Marshall 1.  That was far more lopsided.

Clemson was called for 22 fouls, Marshall 16.

Despite the disparity in corner kicks, it felt like possession was closer to 50/50.  Felt like a toss-up game.  Clemson probably slightly better than Marshall, but not in another league.

North Carolina did give us fits.  It felt like they disconnected our passing more than anyone we played.. and while they outshot us 11-1 (5-1 SOG), it really only felt like they threatened to score once or twice (they hit the crossbar). 

The best team rarely wins in soccer.  But an argument can be made for anyone who wins the national championship.  Luck/fortune is a HUGE part of soccer.

[2xBison]

I disagree that we were dominated in the run of play by Clemson and especially UNC. 

Each team tallied 12 shots.  3 of Clemson's were on goal, two of Marshall's were on goal. 

Marshall made 2 saves, Clemson made 1.

Clemson had 14 corner kicks, Marshall 1.  That was far more lopsided.

Clemson was called for 22 fouls, Marshall 16.

Despite the disparity in corner kicks, it felt like possession was closer to 50/50.  Felt like a toss-up game.  Clemson probably slightly better than Marshall, but not in another league.

North Carolina did give us fits.  It felt like they disconnected our passing more than anyone we played.. and while they outshot us 11-1 (5-1 SOG), it really only felt like they threatened to score once or twice (they hit the crossbar). 

The best team rarely wins in soccer.  But an argument can be made for anyone who wins the national championship.  Luck/fortune is a HUGE part of soccer.

It would be easy to lure him down a maze of circular logic at this point but I think everyone has stated their opinion reasonably other than the person concluding the champ was absolutely not the best team. And don't question it because he's forgotten more....

But we will just move back to opinions now.  I'm bullish on soccer at MU as long as Grassie here
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[Flat Tire 2]

That's fair.  Its a different type of accomplishment.  When MU rolled over everyone in 1996, it was supposed to.  It was extremely satisfying to live up to expectations and pound on teams that beat us for years.  In 1997, I think everyone thought we'd be MAC-level good, but to win the conference was not unexpected and, again, deeply satisfying.  The soccer championship was NOT expected, and the lads played out of their collective butt to get where they got.  In a very real way, to win that way is even MORE satisfying.

I wouldn't count the basketball team's win over Wichita State in the same category b/c we flat beat them and the betting line was way off.  If we played Wichita State 10 times, I think we win 5-6 times.  I equate the soccer championship to, for instance, the Notre Dame game.  We would likely lose 8-9 games played at Notre Dame with the same teams, but on that one day in 2022, magic happened.   

We did beat Wichita State that game. The big difference in that game IMO was Pena. When he went out of the game in the second half WS started to make a comeback.  I think Gregg just didn't do his homework and lost that game. Marshall caught lighting in the bottle for a few games, it happens. Huggy showed how to handle DD in the second round and blew out The Herd. Gregg would have done the same if had faced DD in the second round. Gregg>DD. Gegg did take a team to the Final Four vs only one win in a first round game for DD.

I know Gregg and I know DD. DD is nowhere near as good a coach as Gregg. I would think Gregg would beat DD 6-8 times out of 10 games. DD never did accomplish anything again after his one moment while Gregg has a good record in The Big Dance. Plus DD could never make adjustments in a game. DD lived and died with a system, he was not a game coach.

The Notre Dame win was an upset, but it was fairly convincing win. We didn't need a late TD or FG to win the game.

Regarding soccer, a lot of number 1 seeds fail in The Big Dance in basketball. Were those teams the best teams that year? Sometimes being lucky is better than being good The record book shows Marshall was The National Champion and that is all that matters.

[jsbowen]

My thoughts/opinions

- Back line was a mess. We gave them a goal and had many other To's from backline and MF. Holmes was decent overall but had two really bad TO's.  Just not connected on defense at all. GK did make two really good saves.

- Offense seemed to get better as game went along.

- My opinion is if we are going to go with 3 forwards it should be: Linkier on left, Kong in middle due to size and athleticism, and Silva on right. 4 MFs: Pahnholder (sp), Stjerngaard, Okiyoshi, Simon. WB: Pinto, Godard. CB: Bamford, Fujita/Vukovich. GK: A would give Rose slight edge. Holmes deserves time as does Sorto (did he play?) and others. I just think it's time more a more set lineup so we can get some chemistry and continuity. I'm sure Grassie will get it figured out.

- Overall not our best effort but we got 3 important road points (not sure why SC announcer kept saying a win is two points).

- In about a week we jumped from in 30's in RPI to #13. Last night CSF helped us again by upsetting #15 ranked San Diego 2-0 on road. High Point and others helped as well with quality results.  We have played a really good schedule that will get even tougher. VCU this week is #7 RPI so it's a very big game.

- Congrats to women to start conf play on road with tie. Texas State, however, is much better than Ga State. Volleyball finished ooc slate with sweep of UNCG

- We weren't the most talented team when we won title but we were the best unit (team). Clemson did not dominate the game vs us. UNC did but our defense gave us a chnace and we took it. I thought we were most talented team last year but you have to win it on field to get the hardware.

Good analysis as always.  The starting XI baffled me.  No CBs against a team that is offensively-minded was a bold move.  It seemed to cause more defensive disconnect than adding to our offense.  Second half seemed to settle down and looked more like the play we're used to.  I think by the end of the match, we had 3 CBs on the pitch...perhaps a bit of an over-correct.  At any rate, a conference win against a much-improved USC group is huge.

I agree with your proposed lineup 100%.  Simon can play anywhere.  We need help at MF, which he can provide.  Lineker needs some space to work...much like Bell last year, a move to attacking MF could be the spot for him.

Looking forward to VCU.  Will be the biggest match thus far.  A win will give us a very nice bump in RPI.

[chris88]

SBC had a nice night Tues. Including GA Southern win vs a 7-1 Charleston squad.  That moved them into RPI #25 and helped us moved up to #11 in RPI. SC and JMU rolled. VCU moved into top 25 coaches poll/rankings at #22 so a top 25 matchup tomorrow in Hton.