Topic: Snyder vs. Doc vs. Huff

[Mako]

You can use all sorts of metrics for comparison but I looked at consecutive bowl seasons.  Under Snyder, we went four years without a bowl and one year (his last) with a bowl.  Doc came in in 2010 and his first three seasons went no bowl, bowl, no bowl.  He then had three bowl seasons followed by a 3-9 record in 2016.  He closed his tenure with four bowl appearances in a row. 

Huff has been here four years and we have been bowl eligible all four years.  I don't think anyone will argue the competition in CUSA was stronger than the competition in the Sun Belt. 

[MCA23]

You can use all sorts of metrics for comparison but I looked at consecutive bowl seasons.  Under Snyder, we went four years without a bowl and one year (his last) with a bowl.  Doc came in in 2010 and his first three seasons went no bowl, bowl, no bowl.  He then had three bowl seasons followed by a 3-9 record in 2016.  He closed his tenure with four bowl appearances in a row. 

Huff has been here four years and we have been bowl eligible all four years.  I don't think anyone will argue the competition in CUSA was stronger than the competition in the Sun Belt.

All three took over different situations.  Huff doesn't suck, but he isn't great either. 

[jdonaccbus]

I didn't think Mark Snyder was a very good coach.

With that said, he took over during a tough time and played the toughest schedules. I am not defending him, but being on probation and going to a C-USA that at the time was a step up or two from where we had been in the MAC. He also had to play some tough OOC money games.

[Mako]

All three took over different situations.  Huff doesn't suck, but he isn't great either.

I don't disagree with that assessment but I also don't know why folks think we will get better than "doesn't suck but isn't great."  I mean, that pretty much describes our program. 

[parshall2marshall]

I didn't think Mark Snyder was a very good coach.

Understatement of the decade so far.

[MicDrass1]

Huff is best.  None could have beaten good teams the way he did.  If you put the three side by side most people in the country would take Huff.  He?s better.  Just better.  Way better.  MU is messing up letting him go out like this. 

[JeremyBlake23]

Snyder was terrible.
Doc was average but had solid players and won a conference title.
Huff is kind of between the two at this point. Solid players but hasn't won anything of any importance outside of the ND game. That kind of meant nothing after choking against a terrible BG team the next week though.

[Big Ol' Hillbilly]

While I don't think Mark Dnyder was a good coach, he was also dealt a shitty hand. His first season was our first season in C-USA and his OOC schedules were brutal... C-USA was a totally different animal in those days as well. Doc got the watered down OOC schedules after his first few years and played in a cupcake version of C-USA.

[CJHerdgrad]

All three came here, having never been a head coach anywhere.  But the last head coach with head coaching experience at the college level was Chaump.  Pruett was a HS head coach.  Doesn't matter, I guess.  I thought it was interesting.

As pointed out already, Snyder's tenure didn't benefit from good timing (probation, new conference, team on a downward trajectory).  That said, he didn't prove to be very good.  He didn't improve things, though.  His best season, his last, needed a bowl win to be over 500. 

Holliday had several good seasons, including one conference championship.  His best years were the middle years (2013 to 2015) with the championship in 2014.  His teams were a little worse after those years.  Cato was hard to replace at QB.  Doc seemed to have had difficulty over the years against Western KY, Middle Tenn, and Ohio.  I felt like before and after Cato, his teams underperformed.  Rumors abounded of internal friction with players and coaches alike.  His last season ended with three straight losses and a huge team fight in December that spilled out of the Shewey building onto the sidewalk along 3rd Avenue.  Many passersby called 911.  To this day, I don't know how that was kept under wraps.

Huff was a breath of fresh air and he's had some of the biggest wins (Navy, Notre Dame, Va Tech) and tight games against NC State.  Had Doc stayed, the game against Navy would have been a lot closer if not a loss.  Notre Dame for sure is a loss with Doc.  But, Huff's teams have been inconsistent.  We've lost games we had no business losing.  We've lost OT games.  We've had FCS schools push us around.  We still have problems with mobile QBs.  There is zero transparency even after a game.  I understand why you don't mention that a player is out, but when a player has clearly not played, it's still not addressed.  Rumors of him being connected with other coaching searches started somewhere and are baffling since he's not won a conference championship yet.  The divisional championship is the best he's done.  In my opinion, he's not ready for an elevation to a bigger program yet.  But, I've been pleased this season.  Not overly so, as our wins have been close.  Until beating JMU, exactly zero of our wins have come over teams that have a current winning record.  Some had a winning record when we beat them, but none ended up with winning seasons.  That reeks of paper tiger.  That said, I say we extend him to see what our new OC can do.

[FilmJunky]

You can use all sorts of metrics for comparison but I looked at consecutive bowl seasons.  Under Snyder, we went four years without a bowl and one year (his last) with a bowl.  Doc came in in 2010 and his first three seasons went no bowl, bowl, no bowl.  He then had three bowl seasons followed by a 3-9 record in 2016.  He closed his tenure with four bowl appearances in a row. 

Huff has been here four years and we have been bowl eligible all four years.  I don't think anyone will argue the competition in CUSA was stronger than the competition in the Sun Belt.

CUSA was better than the SBC? lol

[gochneaur645]

CUSA was better than the SBC? lol

He wasn't saying that. Was saying that nobody would argue for that.

[FilmJunky]

He wasn't saying that. Was saying that nobody would argue for that.

UMM he literally says CUSA competition was stronger than the SBC... Maybe in basketball ?

[banker]

The CUSA Snyder coached against was better than the current SBC, plus he got stuck playing a lot of P5 games.  He wasn?t a good coach though.

The CUSA Doc coached against his first 3 years was just as good as the SBC plus he took over a team that was in a Snyder funk.  CUSA 3.0 was much easier and it showed in his record.

Huff took over a team that had come off 4 consecutive bowl appearances and a CUSA championship game appearance. He had a good returning roster including a starting QB that was on the all freshman team.

Doc was 6-2 in bowls. Huff is 1-2.

[MUther]

The CUSA Snyder coached against was better than the current SBC, plus he got stuck playing a lot of P5 games.  He wasn?t a good coach though.

The CUSA Doc coached against his first 3 years was just as good as the SBC plus he took over a team that was in a Snyder funk.  CUSA 3.0 was much easier and it showed in his record.

Huff took over a team that had come off 4 consecutive bowl appearances and a CUSA championship game appearance. He had a good returning roster including a starting QB that was on the all freshman team.

Doc was 6-2 in bowls. Huff is 1-2.

pfft..when Doc coached bowls half the team didn't transfer out before or sit out the bowl game.  Apples and oranges.

[2xBison]

Huff is best.  None could have beaten good teams the way he did.  If you put the three side by side most people in the country would take Huff.  He?s better.  Just better.  Way better.  MU is messing up letting him go out like this.

Yes. Not saying Huff is great but he damn sure better than Snyder or Doc


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[forphase1]

Huff is best.  None could have beaten good teams the way he did.  If you put the three side by side most people in the country would take Huff.  He?s better.  Just better.  Way better.  MU is messing up letting him go out like this.

Huff is definitely better than Snyder or Doc.  Not sure about 'way' better, but i agree that most would take him,  and rightfully so.   That said,  I don't think think losing him is nearly as big of a loss as some are making it out.  He's better then the last two coaches,  but he isn't great either.   We could certainly do worse than him,  but we could also do a lot better.   Not sure I really trust Spears/Smith to bring in someone better though,  to be honest.

[parshall2marshall]

Huff seems considerably below average game-day to me. But then I've been following FB for over 60 years. But his 15+ years in coaching is a lot, and after all it is his profession. Players are playing very hard but it looked like Doege and Verhoff bailed Huff out against JMU. My only concern with him leaving would be getting the level or players Huff has gotten us.

[svherd]

DOC had enough guys in the police blotter that we could have fielded a team for the next remake of the Longest Yard.

[elginherd]

Snyder, Holliday and Huff all assumed the position in completely different circumstances.
The one common thread among all three is that none of them were really immediately ready to be a HFBC.
In the cases of Snyder and Huff, there was a need for someone to be ready to quickly elevate what was in place, not to 'have time to get his players'.