Topic: The System

[thelonderee]

I know everyone wants to blame someone for how our football season has ended. And there are probably some people who are deserving of blame. But the real issue is: the system.

Why are players transferring out? There are no consequences. There are opportunities to make money or at least get more playing time. And if a player just transferred in for this season, they don't have a real connection with Marshall, the fans, the community. Their time here is just a means to an end. Add to that a head coach that it seems has mainly looked out for #1 ... as a young man you're likely to follow his example unless you were raised to see through it and know better.

What I'm saying is, today's student-athletes believe the most important thing is what's best for them. The idea of sacrificing for a team, a school or a community is mostly dead. We are seeing the results of this. Even if NIL and portal changes are made, this mentality will continue to shape the landscape of college sports.

What used to be a sport filled with tradition, passion and compelling story lines has eroded into the junior edition of the NFL. Coaches are being hired because they have financial supporters and understand how to motivate paid players. Schools are even hiring general managers to handle the roster of college students who are now receiving money based on how well they play.

I don't like this, at all. I feel like it's killing college sports. But then again, I grew up with the old way of things. It was far from perfect. It's crazy that just as the system has "expanded" access with a larger playoff, the playing field is still far from level thanks to greed and the desire to win no matter the cost (these have always existed; just seems to be prevalent now).

With the amount of money that schools receive from football and basketball and the risks that players take in putting their bodies on fields and courts, I'm fine with them receiving compensation. But all of this was implemented before anyone could understand the effects it would have on the sport. I don't know exactly who is to blame for THAT, but whoever it is, that's who is to blame for what's happened in Huntington in December 2024.

[herd2win]

We need to go back to sitting out a year for a transfer.  It will be rarely that an athlete connects with a school or city.  This season we basically had rental players that got us a championship.  We have a few amazing guys that were loyal but not many.

The "75" will not resonate with future players as it used to in the past.  We even have 2 legacy players in Pennington and Yates that are in the portal

[THECHAMPISHERE]

It's impossible for it to be the system. Because Jacksonville State and Ohio (and probably more teams) are in the exact same situation as us under the same system...(actually playing each other in the same bowl)...and they figured it out. Let's not blame the system for our incompetence in dealing with it. Is it a challenge? Sure. But every other institution meets the challenge except us.

[thelonderee]

It's impossible for it to be the system. Because Jacksonville State and Ohio (and probably more teams) are in the exact same situation as us under the same system...(actually playing each other in the same bowl)...and they figured it out. Let's not blame the system for our incompetence in dealing with it. Is it a challenge? Sure. But every other institution meets the challenge except us.

Exact same situation? I highly doubt that. I think it's very possible that we are actually the first school to deal with this particular situation.

[THECHAMPISHERE]

Exact same situation? I highly doubt that. I think it's very possible that we are actually the first school to deal with this particular situation.

Please explain? How is it different?

[rileylives]

It's impossible for it to be the system. Because Jacksonville State and Ohio (and probably more teams) are in the exact same situation as us under the same system...(actually playing each other in the same bowl)...and they figured it out. Let's not blame the system for our incompetence in dealing with it. Is it a challenge? Sure. But every other institution meets the challenge except us.

Those are not great examples.

What we've witnessed is highly unprecedented. Our administration wouldn't even attempt to negotiate with a staff that won a conference championship. That has to have rubbed those coaches the wrong way

They decided to press the nuclear option. Causing almost half the team to leave.

Our administration gambled and it's blown up right in their face. I mean, they didn't even put out an announcement today. They are reeling and hope/wish Marshall fans are gonna let this die.

We are not going through the same things others are.

[thelonderee]

Please explain? How is it different?

Those schools had coaches who left because they were leaving for what is widely considered better opportunities. Not the case with our coach. I think the main difference is the animosity between administration and coach that has played a large role in our situation.

I'm not sure what percentage of the rosters of Ohio and JSU were first-year transfers to know if that's another major difference.

[THECHAMPISHERE]

Those are not great examples.

What we've witnessed is highly unprecedented. Our administration wouldn't even attempt to negotiate with a staff that won a conference championship. That has to have rubbed those coaches the wrong way

They decided to press the nuclear option. Causing almost half the team to leave.

Our administration gambled and it's blown up right in their face. I mean, they didn't even put out an announcement today. They are reeling and hope/wish Marshall fans are gonna let this die.

We are not going through the same things others are.

Those schools had coaches who left because they were leaving for what is widely considered better opportunities. Not the case with our coach. I think the main difference is the animosity between administration and coach that has played a large role in our situation.

I'm not sure what percentage of the rosters of Ohio and JSU were first-year transfers to know if that's another major difference.

I think y'all forgot what thread you are in. So yeah I agree with you both. It's not the system. It's our incompetent administration. That is the difference. It's not the system though. It's not NIL. It's not the Transfer Portal. It's not a coach/coaches leaving and not coaching a bowl game. It's the dumpster fire our administration caused that is the difference.

Every school in America has to deal with "the system"...Ohio and Jacksonville State dealt with "the system" just fine and are going to play in a bowl game.

[thelonderee]

I think y'all forgot what thread you are in. So yeah I agree with you both. It's not the system. It's our incompetent administration. That is the difference. It's not the system though. It's not NIL. It's not the Transfer Portal. It's not a coach/coaches leaving and not coaching a bowl game. It's the dumpster fire our administration caused that is the difference.

Every school in America has to deal with "the system"...Ohio and Jacksonville State dealt with "the system" just fine and are going to play in a bowl game.

I get what you?re saying. But I think the system is the underlying cause of the ?what?s in it for me? mentality. Our situation just added fuel to it all. And I don?t blame our administration, because I don?t have enough details of what they dealt with to choose to blame them.

[herd2win]

Huff looks like the winner today and may look like a winner next fall.  Huff with multiple transfers can take a 1-11 team and go 7-5 without much of a challenge.  He will then jump again or at least be looking.

Marshall, if Gibson s a good coach will have long term stability and lose the battle but win the war.

[whf]

Huff looks like the winner today and may look like a winner next fall.  Huff with multiple transfers can take a 1-11 team and go 7-5 without much of a challenge.  He will then jump again or at least be looking.

Marshall, if Gibson s a good coach will have long term stability and lose the battle but win the war.

With both parties pulling in the same direction, there didn't need to be a war to begin with. This one was created by the ineptitude of a bunch or folks, all too prideful for their own good. Who is hurt, thousands of us who've traveled, spent money, spent time, gave blood and sweat to support the program. And I'm having a great deal of trouble understanding why in the world the guys still in green and white wouldn't have given one to get a chance to play Army in that bowl; win or lose. They all practices, lifted, etc. for a full season.  The message won't be to the NCAA, they'll not have anyting except a caution to ESPN to be careful depending on Marshall for living up to its commitments going forward.  What a mess we've handed an inexperienced, first time, head coach.

[miltonherdfan]

Huff looks like the winner today and may look like a winner next fall.  Huff with multiple transfers can take a 1-11 team and go 7-5 without much of a challenge. 

last season, CH took a 9-4 team &, with multiple transfers, went 6-7

[MUther]

It's impossible for it to be the system. Because Jacksonville State and Ohio (and probably more teams) are in the exact same situation as us under the same system...(actually playing each other in the same bowl)...and they figured it out. Let's not blame the system for our incompetence in dealing with it. Is it a challenge? Sure. But every other institution meets the challenge except us.

Ask Florida State how the system worked out for them.  Even if a team still makes a bowl, if they were good they likely lost a lot of players.  This mean they may lose to an inferior team that didn't have the talent to get picked apart.  That's the system.  Won't affect Jax ad Ohio as they are in the same boat, but that isn't always the case. 

The proof of what I'm saying is that this could happen to a team that didn't lose any staff or coaches and just because it hasn't doesn't mean it won't.  And, if there were no portal prior to bowl season, it could not.  Perhaps over 50% of the team could sit out the bowl, but I don't see that happening if the coach is still here and he doesn't have to leave right away if there is no recruiting advantage to it.  You simply create a contract with a higher buyout if a coach leaves before a bowl or playoff game.  We're really stupid if we aren't putting post-season in every contract we sign from here on out and another clause stating failure to accept an extension results in immediate termination with no money due the coach.  If they can't come to an agreement on the terms of the extension there is nothing left to talk about.  But it will be at the end of a year that isn't the last of a contract.

[Tim Hensley]

One thing is for damn sure.  These transfer portal announcements/effective dates need to be pushed back until bowl season/playoffs have ended.

[Johns1124]

I know everyone wants to blame someone for how our football season has ended. And there are probably some people who are deserving of blame. But the real issue is: the system.

Why are players transferring out? There are no consequences. There are opportunities to make money or at least get more playing time.

There are consequences. It's just the portal is so new they are not widely known. Somewhere between 40-50% of all portal transfers never get picked up, or have to transfer down to FCS or lower. No NIL $$ down there. Give it a few more years. The stories are starting to come out of players ending up a lot worse than they were it will all simmer down. Look at many of the Marshall Transfers over the last two years. Where are they today? What happen to Obi? Where is Zamora?

Well, Obi didn't play much for the Sooners and Zamora ended up at a Community College.

https://247sports.com/season/2024-football/transferportal/?institutionkey=24052

Look at the Transfers from last season. A few of them pan out, but a lot more don't.

[GreenWhite]

The portal and NIL happened so fast nobody had a chance to take a look at things for the long haul. I'm not sure it can be reigned in without a legal battle. It's the wild, wild west right now. It will always hit schools like Marshall harder. P4 players that enter the portal are usually those that do not get a lot of playing time. P5 players are looking at recognition from a p4 program. It will be interesting to see how many of our transfers end up playing at a P4 program next year.

[Flat Tire 2]

We had a team, for the most part, that bought into the Huff "culture" and not into Marshall University. I see the same situation with Colorado with Deion Sanders. If you have ever watch any of the social medias posts put out by the MU football team, you see how the players really connected with Huff. That seems to be the future of college football at the smaller G5 level programs. A lot of these players are just looking for instant self gratification and money and not an education.

Someone brought up the 75 "not resonating". We are in big trouble if that is our major inducement. I was in school when the plane crash happened and it is almost the same as the Vietnam war in terms as a historical perspective for me. I lost friends in Vietnam and I lost 5 fraternity brothers and neighbors on the plane. Of course the plane crash was a bigger moment for me, but anyone who has a real connection to it at is least 60+ years old now. That is hard to get young people motivated by that event since it is so long ago.

Apparently Huff didn't want to be here and Smith/Spears didn't want him gone. You can blame either side. I will fault Marshall for not taking over the football program when they knew Huff was out the door after the championship. The athletic department should have taken over the program and fired any coach that was a Huff ally. 

Marshall has been through worst situations as this. As a result of the cheating scandal under Perry Moss, the NCAA allowed all the Marshall football players to transfer to any college without having to sit a year at their new school. We ended up with about 50 players on that team. Of course the plane crash was a major event in the school history. The Huff event will also be a history footnote on the program. We will survive the current situation.

[elginherd]

The portal and NIL happened so fast nobody had a chance to take a look at things for the long haul. I'm not sure it can be reigned in without a legal battle. It's the wild, wild west right now. It will always hit schools like Marshall harder. P4 players that enter the portal are usually those that do not get a lot of playing time. P5 players are looking at recognition from a p4 program. It will be interesting to see how many of our transfers end up playing at a P4 program next year.

Good point.
The "system" (That word is an exaggeration in this case.) is a result of many decades of the NCAA's intransigence and illegal assertions of authority of which the NCAA had no right to assume.
The term "student-athlete" now bandied about is a (bleep) moniker invented in the 50's or 60's to reinforce its aura of authority.

To go back to the transfer rules that were in place or to limit the earning power of an athlete would not stand in legal muster. Every federal court including a 9-0 supreme Court decision basically stripped the NCAA of the authority to limit player movement or compensation.

[Green Dog]

  What a mess we've handed an inexperienced, first time, head coach.

This is the only thing that matters now. The rest is water under the bridge.
I feel for Gibson. I don't think most realize how deep this rebuild will go.

[muherd34]

This is the only thing that matters now. The rest is water under the bridge.
I feel for Gibson. I don't think most realize how deep this rebuild will go.

There was a poster on here that said this would happen after the Fancher situation last year.  I do not remember who it was.  But they basically spelled it out.  Bad blood and Huff would make it burn after this year.  The poster thought we should fire Huff at the end of last year.  Wish I could find that post. It was spot on.

I agree that Gibson is in trouble and we may be S miss like next year.  Guess we will find out.

[MUonium]

One thing is for damn sure.  These transfer portal announcements/effective dates need to be pushed back until bowl season/playoffs have ended.

someone pointed out in another thread that you have to consider the academic semester timelines first and foremost.  which came first, the egghead or the blockhead?   

it's clear that most likely, because of money/greed, sports structure in college will somehow be modified or separated from academic structures which might become some kind of semi-pro or pro-feeder entity

[herd2win]

Huff was always looking to leave and that has been documented.  I am ok with that as long as everything is on the up and up.  Huff bad mouthed the university, its fans and the area.  That's where Huff loses in my mind. 

Any top level coach will look to leave MU to another opportunity if they are successful.  That's to be expected, Ex Parrish, Chaump, Donnan. 

I wanted Huff fired after last year because of his attacks on the fans.