Topic: Its time to Bench BM, build on next season...

[HerdAlum00_01]

I repeat once again, this was intended to not be a trashing thread. But, how many of you honestly would sacrifice another horrible season next year just because of your loyalty to BM? Lets remember, this is MARSHALL...not Bernie Morris University. BM is a good player, but we cannot in my opinion sacrifice the well being of our athletic programs just to fufill a promise to a QB. I like BM, but if it means getting reps to prepare for next year, its time to make the switch. Stupid or not, its just fact.

If I'm not mistaken, didn't Notre Dame go this route and start Claussen? Point being schools do this.  This is about building a program, not a players resume.  If we do not start developing a young QB this year, we will be in the exact same boat next year.  Even if we pull Cann's redshirt and Garner ends up being the QB, we can just redshirt him next year, ala Pennington in 1996.  It's the right decision if we want to move forward.

[ThunderZone]

I repeat once again, this was intended to not be a trashing thread. But, how many of you honestly would sacrifice another horrible season next year just because of your loyalty to BM? Lets remember, this is MARSHALL...not Bernie Morris University. BM is a good player, but we cannot in my opinion sacrifice the well being of our athletic programs just to fufill a promise to a QB. I like BM, but if it means getting reps to prepare for next year, its time to make the switch. Stupid or not, its just fact.

chez, I wasn't referring to your original question ... It is something worth thinking about ... I don't agree, not just yet anyway ... But, I understand it was a legit question with pondering.

My reply was aimed at a couple of other posters on this thread ... It's painfully obvious that they are clueless ... I feel dumber after reading a couple of those posts ... That's a few seconds of my life that I can never recover and get back ... I'm somewhat surprised that they can turn a computer on, much less register and post on a message board.

[Swami Sam]

I agree with better preparing ourselves for next season but would like to recognize the effort BM has made this year and competing while hurt.

[Marshall Faithful]

Recruits coming to this school need to know that no matter what the situation, this team is committed to winning each game.  There may be a time, later this season, where preparing a quarterback for next year is unavoidable, but if you want to kill the remainder of the moral of the team, bench BM now and let the players know that this season is meaningless.  It’s better to go down fighting, knowing you have given your best shot, than to fold.  Fighting against all odds is what made this country great.  Go Herd!  I will always be with Marshall.

[twinsdad]

Gotta agree with chez to a certain extent.  What I would do is keep status quo for right now, as Bernie has really been a warrior here the last couple of weeks and he really hasn"t been the problem.  

Now, that being said, we are staring down 0-7 and the minute we become officially eliminated from potential bowl game(which is coming soon) I don't permanently bench Bernie but I do start giving series to Anderson each half.  As far as Cann is concerned, I'm still torn over burning the red-shirt unless Bernie can't go anymore due to the toe.

As far as Kueck is concerned, while I'm not going to assess any blame to him directly, we all know who is usually the first to go anytime a head coach begins to feel the heat....its the coordinators.  This year brought Dunlap and unless things improve significantly the rest of the year, next year will probably bring a new OC.  I'm not necessarily saying it should happen but only that it probably will, especially with breaking in a new starter next year(Anderson, Cann, Garner, whomever).

As far as possible new OC, wouldn't be shocked if the name Stan Parrish comes up as I believe he is a coordinator or QB coach at Ball State.

[TomorrowHERD]

Bring Parrish in as associate head coach/OC and let him coach the team, and let Snyder do the recruiting and help with the defense.

[P'villeHERDfan]

I could care less about BM and his NFL potential . MU isn't here to groom players for the NFL . Whatever it takes to win , get players experience and get butts in the seats , MU needs to do .

[Carolina_Thor]

If snyder was smart, he would do this for a couple of reasons.  First as has been stated, get the future of this team some reps and game experience.  You simply can't emulate game experience in practice.  Number two, I think after putting one of the young guns in there to begin cutting their teeth for next season, he would actually take a lot of pressure off the team and himself.  He takes the pressure off the team and himself in that, the expectations of the fanbase come more in line with the end result.  We stink it up, but we would all be expecting that.  Hell even gives the opportunity for a pleasant surprise here and there.  What's the worst that can happen, a snap going through the legs of the QB, or a ball thrown to an empty spot on the field in a critical situation?  I'm not bashing BM, but he is not the future of this team.  

There was another thread about firing coach, and I don't post much so will go ahead and plug my thoughts on that as well here.  I really like coach Snyder.  I think he has a great deal of integrity.  He seems to run a clean program.  He seems to be able to recruit well.  He seems to communicate well enough.  He has a lot of positives going for him.  Unfortunately, I disagree with some of the folks on the board that lay the blame squarely on the shoulders of the players.  It's the coaches job to prepare the players.  Regardless of what you may think of BP, he took two not very highly recruited QBs and  they became heisman finalists.  As much as I repect coach for all his qualities, I also think he was not ready to be a head coach at this level.  I see flashes of talent on this team, and feel like it's squandered with poor coaching decisions.  After the UC game, he admitted we were a poorly coached team.  Whose job is that?  I think coach's short leash should soon become a choke collar.  I'm not saying cut him loose, but I think we need to prepare for that possibility.  It's a sentiment that is making more sense every week.

I love this team, and want to see it succeed, and hope nothing I've written is taken in other way.  I'm just another frustrated fan on the keyboard.

Go Herd!!!!!

[Up5491yours]

The objective of the QB is to score points, not put up statistics.  BM is the worst QB we have had here at Marshall in recent memory, bar none.   He stares down receivers and makes poor throws to wide open receivers.  He cannot see the entire field and continues to make errors in critical situations.  He plays the QB position like a true freshman instead of a fifth year senior.   The only thing he does well is run the ball.   So dream on you BM worshipers.   But for the rest of us the only bright spot is that he won't have any eligibility left after this season.   Now if Snyder would only use up his......

[Photo by]

I repeat once again, this was intended to not be a trashing thread. But, how many of you honestly would sacrifice another horrible season next year just because of your loyalty to BM? Lets remember, this is MARSHALL...not Bernie Morris University. BM is a good player, but we cannot in my opinion sacrifice the well being of our athletic programs just to fufill a promise to a QB. I like BM, but if it means getting reps to prepare for next year, its time to make the switch. Stupid or not, its just fact.

The gap in logic to me in your post is that our problem is primarily our defense. I don't see how prepping Cann...or whomever, at this point will help our defense this year or next!!!!

Probably we can eliminate some growing pains at QB, but if next year's heir to the QB throne is to be the kid from GT playing Cann, Smith, Anderson, Berdain, or Joe Willy's illegitimate son won't help.

[Carolina_Thor]

The gap in logic to me in your post is that our problem is primarily our defense. I don't see how prepping Cann...or whomever, at this point will help our defense this year or next!!!!

Probably we can eliminate some growing pains at QB, but if next year's heir to the QB throne is to be the kid from GT playing Cann, Smith, Anderson, Berdain, or Joe Willy's illegitimate son won't help.[/quote]

Getting the frosh QBs obviously wont help defense, but it does prepare for the future.  Imagine this scenario: We get all of hurt defensive players back healthy next year, with the added depth from those younger defensive players who cut their teeth this season, and they do a great job of keeping opponents down to around 14pts/game, but with lack of experience at QB we end up scoring 10 pts/game ourselves.  

The point is: if we're going to stink it up, we might as well build for the future and get the frosh some game experience

Just my opinion, i could be wrong

CT

[HarpDaddy]

While I will admit that Bernie is not the best QB in Marshall history, he is by far not the worst.  

Up23728232yours,
Bernie is completing nearly 70% of his throws this season and is the third highest rated passer in CUSA.  Marshall is also one of the Top 20 passing teams in the nation.  

Bernie since Miami is...
93-133 70% 1145 Yards 9 TD 2 INT 286 yards/game

If he is staring down receivers he needs to do it more in my eyes!  Oh! Both of those interceptions were tips (The one against Cincy that Spann should have caught and Edmonson last night.)  

Plus, its hard to check a second and third option when you are running for your life!!!!  Marshall is the most sacked team in CUSA!!!  However, both TD passes last night were second options (Slate and Passmore).

[HerdAlum00_01]

I repeat once again, this was intended to not be a trashing thread. But, how many of you honestly would sacrifice another horrible season next year just because of your loyalty to BM? Lets remember, this is MARSHALL...not Bernie Morris University. BM is a good player, but we cannot in my opinion sacrifice the well being of our athletic programs just to fufill a promise to a QB. I like BM, but if it means getting reps to prepare for next year, its time to make the switch. Stupid or not, its just fact.

The gap in logic to me in your post is that our problem is primarily our defense. I don't see how prepping Cann...or whomever, at this point will help our defense this year or next!!!!

Probably we can eliminate some growing pains at QB, but if next year's heir to the QB throne is to be the kid from GT playing Cann, Smith, Anderson, Berdain, or Joe Willy's illegitimate son won't help.

I think it will help because we will be that much more prepared.  We will have at least have 1 QB on the roster with real game experience.  They can fight it out in camp.  Maybe getting Cann or whoever more reps allows them to progress forward and become the starting QB.  At least they wouldnt be taking snaps for the first time next season.  We have Slate and Passmore and what looks like a good RB with 2 more on the team for next season, but those guys need a good QB.  QB has been the problem for all 3 of Snyders years.  It will be year 4 unless we get some experience now.  If the kid from GT wins the job, so be it.  Whoever had their shirt pulled can redshirt next season instead and be that much more prepared.  I think this worked well for us with Pennington/Kresser.  Same exact situation.

Regarding defense, our injuries on the front maybe too much to overcome this season, but the fact is our young guys are in there getting playing time.  Same philosophy as the QB, only they are in there out of necessity.  Next season those young guys on D will be a year older and stronger with game experience.  AM will be back as well.  Maybe they start next season, maybe they dont, but we now have in-game experience and depth at the position.

[2xBison]

BM is the worst QB we have had here at Marshall in recent memory, bar none. He stares down receivers and makes poor throws to wide open receivers.

amazing.  you must have forgotten a couple from 03 - present.

anyway, now, if he was staring down his receivers, wouldn't he have seen Edmondson run the wrong route and not thrown the ball?

gentlemen, we're all frustrated, but don't let your frustration get in front of your brain and make you look stupid.

[VegasHerd]

Benching Morris would be Snyder's worst decision in a long list of poor ones.  Bernie has poured his heart and soul into becoming the player he is today.  He appears to be the ONLY damn leader on the team and this includes the coaches.  Believe it or not, the season is technically not over and by taking the suggested action would be an enormous slap to the face of Bernie Morris and would indicate to me that we have "quit".  Think about it from a recruit perspective.  I bust my ass for 4 years, do everything asked of me, play hurt, and because our coaches give up on the season I might get benched my SENIOR year.  I choose New Hampshire to play football.

I understand the bigger picture and building for the future but I can assure you this is not how to do it.

[banker]

Would some of you at least agree then that when we get down by 20 against Tulsa, USM, UCF and Houston we should at least get some serious reps for some other QBs?

[RIVER HERD]

Thank's Banker maybe that will help them understand what were TRYING to say.

[bbcard1]

is that the guy who is most likely to be our quarterback next year CANNOT POSSIBLY get reps in a game.

I know it's hard to beleive, but things are really going to work out.  We're all trying to fix things and advance theories...but bottom lining we've just got to play.

[Up5491yours]

What is it with this Garner being the QB next year so we don't need to play naybody else crap?  What if Garner blows out a knee in August?   What if he can't play worth a hoot?    You people are not thinking about the possibilities, you're simply looking for easy solutions.  

All anyone who knows anything about football has to do is record one of our games and watch each of our offensive series in slow motion.   BM never looks at more than one receiver.  His head is never on a swivel.   He takes the snap and immediately makes one entire side of the field cease to exist.  He stares at his intended receiver until he gets open and if he doesn't get open he takes off running.  This makes our offense easy for any coach to defend, simply double team Passmore and Slate on every passing down and 80% of our offense is neutralized.    Until we get a QB that can look off safeties and throw accurate passes to wide open receivers without them having to stop running or turn around to catch balls behind them we will be doomed to doing what we are doing now, scoring very few points.

[HarpDaddy]

I have watched plenty of Marshall football over the last decade and Bernie is not nearly as bad as you make him out to be.

If Marshall is so easy to defend through the air, then why oh wise one is Marshall the second rated passing team in CUSA and Top 20 in the country?  

If all anyone has to do is double team Passmore and Slate, then they are doing a terrible job as they continue to catch 6 to 7 passes a game each.  Most of Bernie's reads, much like Chad's/Byron's and everyone else's come pre-snap.  

PLUS!!!  Bernie has had the toughest competition year in and year out that ANY Marshall QB has EVER faced and he is facing that competition with nearly half the talent every other MU QB has gone to battle with.

[VegasHerd]

Would some of you at least agree then that when we get down by 20 against Tulsa, USM, UCF and Houston we should at least get some serious reps for some other QBs?

"Benching" Morris versus getting him out of a game that is out of reach  are two different things.  We should do this if we were 5-0.  He needs rest and his back-ups need reps.

[Up5491yours]

The reason BM is ranked so high in statistics is because they are padded by a 400+ yds game against a 1-AA team.  Against 1-A competition we have scored 3, 23, 14, 21 points.  That is 15 points per game.  The objective of the offense is to score points, nothing else.   And about the competition, we are not in the MAC any more.  We need a QB that can put points on the board against the competition we are playing, not the competition we used to play 10 years ago.   Quit defending mediocracy!  Upping your game to "non lousy" will not get it done.

[HarpDaddy]

My whole point is...the problem is its NOT just the QB!!!  The offensive line couldn't block for anyone.  Chad and Bryon would both be dead meat behind the current offensive line (Example:  Byron in 2000.).  Marshall has given up more sacks than ANY team in the league.  At least Bernie, has the ability to escape.  

Considering everything since game one, name one player that has performed better on his own besides the placekicker?

[parshall2marshall]

Bring Parrish in as associate head coach/OC and let him coach the team, and let Snyder do the recruiting and help with the defense.

I like it! Sounds like an idea someone once proposed
( hmmm : - ). While ousting or re-assigning the current OC.

Never happen though, too logical and solves
too many problem areas and does not cost
enough $$. [/sarcasm]

p2m

[parshall2marshall]

The reason BM is ranked so high in statistics is because they are padded by a 400+ yds game against a 1-AA team.  Against 1-A competition we have scored 3, 23, 14, 21 points.  That is 15 points per game.  The objective of the offense is to score points, nothing else.   And about the competition, we are not in the MAC any more.  We need a QB that can put points on the board against the competition we are playing, not the competition we used to play 10 years ago.   Quit defending mediocracy!  Upping your game to "non lousy" will not get it done.

I think you have invented a new word. Instead of the
aristocracy we have joined the mediocracy.

Hey 5491, I don't agree with everything you say, but am with you
in spirit. If we could start to fix a few things here and there
on both sides of the ball ... before you know it could have a
snowballing effect to the point that someday we could be good
again. RH may be hinting that direction.

p2m