Topic: HD article - MU going old school?

[svherd]

I about threw up when I read this. Looks like our offensive philospohy will continue to be the same, play conservative, run the ball and hope the defense can hold teams down.
Good gracious, if the staff hasn't learned by now that we cannot win in this mode, then I have NO sympathy for them.
The article goes on to say the ECU, USM and UCF have the same philospohy - not really. ECU and USM threw the ball much more than we did. The USM QB - who WAS an RS freshmen, threw for something like 33OO yards or so - a school record for a freshmen. Pinckney at ECU threw the ball very well last year, especially against Va Tech and WVU.

Good luck Mark, you're going to need it if you don't open up the offense and establish some semblence of an effective D1 passing game. ugh!

[Ovaltine Jenkins]

http://www.herald-dispatch.com/sports/marshall/x1532890324/Herd-looking-to-go-old-school

[herdfan429]

Line backers are key to the season.  Playing the young guys back there could hurt.  Once again he doesnt seem to confident with the offense. 

[svherd]

Thanks for posting the link Beaver!

[Taft#1]

Oh wow !!!!  That will bring the people out !! I think Snyder believes hes at Ohio State , that may work at bigger schools coz they get the better ahletes but gee wiz , MU has to have an explosive off. to compete . Look for Snyder to have another ho hum year then be let go .

[Boogercat]

I like how we are "going" old school.  It's been 4 years already of this Big10 brand of football.  Tthe BIG10 has even switched away from it - because it is not as exciting or as effective (unless you have the best players) as the style of football we used to play.  I am not knocking Snyder with this, just want to see some HERD football and some W's.  He's the coach, and I am for whatever it takes to get the job done.

[ThunderValley]

Run the ball and depend on the D.
This is the style of the Big-10. They are starting to see the sun set on that style of play. It works ok if all the other teams in the conf. feel like you do, but look at the Big-10 bowl record the last couple years. They are getting left in the dust.

Marshall needs to get back to the style that excited so many fans across herd nation (and won games for them)  Now these fans are bored to death.

[marshall fanatic]

I must have read a different article cause what read talked soley about the defense. Maybe I missed something there.

[marshallmark]

I don't care who you are, a good coach will play to his strengths.  If our QB and WRs are unproven or lacking, then run the dang ball. 

It doesn't matter to me if we win 10-7, or 40-38 just as long as we win. 

My concern over the long haul is that MU traditionally has trouble recruiting run-blocking OLs on a regular basis.  Throwing the ball was the way to even out the game, because our skill people were as good as anyone's.  That's not the case now, but I hope it will be in the future. 

[DC01HERD]

Should I bring a pillow to watch the game? That sounds so boring. This style of play isn't Marshall football. This kind of offense didn't get us on ESPN. This sucks.

[Marshallguy04]

I think we tend to forget we also had RANDY-%^&*-MOSS on our offensive attack...you had no choice but to throw it to him and you'd most likely score.

He was fun to watch too, he'd run...run...and run! I heard it was almost boring in and of itself for Herd fans in the 90's because Marshall would be up 40+ points and it'd turn into a slaughter over just a win.

We no longer have a dependable WR...one that is a complete and true offensive threat on his own like Moss. No, we have a potential record breaking RB...i say its good to let the offense build around him. We also have a great TE who will be thrown to alot this year.

Yes, Marshall's offense has gone down the toilet since our stars left, but honestly its about the best approach you can take considering your real strengths are at RB and TE...not WR. Running will speed the game up (i differ on this next strategy by MS) strike first, hold off with D, strike again, hold off with D, then run and and run and run...the game clock will expire and hopefully we've won.

I also think one must consider the QB passing efficiency...how accurate were our QB's last season? Not to say we shouldn't throw to our WR's but running is what we're going to focus on.

[ought-three]

...because every coach knows you should throw it 40-50 times per game no matter what kind of talent you have at QB or WR. It's about the fans, after all.

[mutink]

    I keep hearing we don't have the skill personnel in order to have an adequate passing attack.
    Therefore, RECRUIT them, for Heaven's sake. Then if we continue to have a respectable   
    defense, times could be exciting again! 

[HerdBlizz]

Its old school alright...I see the "short" bus pulling up now and Snyder is driving........His head must be in a one room school house.

[svherd]

I understand about playing to your supposed strengths. Problem is, this style or scheme has not won us games. A good coach also recognizes the need for change if the Offense or team is not producing victories. These kids aren't inept. We have some QB's now that can throw and a few kids that can catch it; IF you work with them and develop a playbook that focuses on what they can do. Sure as hell couldn't hurt. Let Snyder cut his own throat is he can't see that.

We have a defensive minded coach who seems to be dreaming that we can win with the status quo, JUST LIKE THE PREVIOUS 4 YEARS.

[Thunders]

We've been running this type of offense under Snyder for 4 years now they act like it is a new approach. Truth is that Snyder realizes he still doesn't have a good QB to throw the ball and no WRs to catch the thing so he is having to run the ball. Good luck with that Snyder. Other teams will stack the line on our run game and make us pass which will stall the offense. Defense gets on the field and makes some stops but gets worn out because they will be on the field all day and 3 points on the board going into the 3rd quarter. If we can't establish some form of passing game we are dead in the water folks. Can't run the ball every down like Snyder thinks. This isn't OSU. Hell, even OSU has a decent passing game. 4 years and he can't find a QB?  ::)

[svherd]

Funny how there are 115 other D1 teams that can find a QB to throw it 15 yards and one or two guys to catch it, but we can't. Wonder about our talent evaluation process. Run it boys, run it all year long - another 4-8 will be the result.

I guess not having a dedicated QB coach is coming back to haunt us.

[gtrman4herd]

Not really sure what it means, but if you take Pruett's last 2 years and Snyders last 2 years and compare # of pass plays, # of run plays and total offense, here are the averages:

'03-'04
run plays- 440
pass plays- 385
total offense- 4506

'07-'08
run plays- 415
pass plays- 391
total offense- 4460

About the biggest thing I get from this is that the defense must have been stronger during Pruetts last two years, the offenses are pretty danged similar so maybe the focus of the article on defense is pretty much dead on?  Just an observation.

[Boogercat]

In the comparison of Pruett's last 2 years to Snyder's last 2, one shouldn't forget NCAA sanctions.  People want to still talk about probation now to defend Snyder, but those 2 years were when things were pretty lean for Pruett and that was a result of the rules violations that were committed.  OTOH, Snyder had the benefit of recruiting with a motion picture about the program made, a new weightroom constructed, a new rec. center constructed, new and safer turf, a new conference, a better schedule.  With all that said, Pruett still won 14 games and played some very good teams close.

[svherd]

And competition - the MAC is was weaker - top to bottom than CUSA is. No Buffalo's, EMU, Kents on our schedule now, thus the need for a strong Defense wasn't as imperative.

[ThunderValley]

Snider pass play=3 yards

Pruett pass play =30 yards

[Max]

Regardless of the level of competition, there is still something to be said about good teams being able to run the ball effectively and stopping the run.  Personally, I prefer a "pass to set up the run" mentality.  Fans like it better, players like it better, and it doesn't have to managed to where you are running the ball once to every 5 throws.  I prefer a balanced attack.

I don't disagree with the idea of accentuating the run when you have strengths in that area (I've given up on the notion that we will ever be as creative offensively as we were in the past while Snyder is still the coach).  I worry, however, that the margin for error is much less when you play that style, and we all know that Snyder's teams have been less than efficient on the offensive side of the ball throughout his tenure (especially on the road).   Get down by a couple scores and the panic factor sets in quickly when you don't have a strong passing game.  It also puts a lot of pressure on your defense to be perfect each week.

[banker]

Not really sure what it means, but if you take Pruett's last 2 years and Snyders last 2 years and compare # of pass plays, # of run plays and total offense, here are the averages:

'03-'04
run plays- 440
pass plays- 385
total offense- 4506

'07-'08
run plays- 415
pass plays- 391
total offense- 4460

About the biggest thing I get from this is that the defense must have been stronger during Pruetts last two years, the offenses are pretty danged similar so maybe the focus of the article on defense is pretty much dead on?  Just an observation.

Those stats don't mean squat because they take nothing into consideration.  For example, in 2008 we consistently played from behind trying to make up various sizes of deficits, yet we ran the ball 423 times and only passed 351.  In 2003 we were often playing with a lead so we ran the ball 499 times and threw only 377.  Also, with Stan Hill hurt why air it out with Grahm if you had the lead?  In 2004 we had as good of running backs as we have now (with Charles and Bradshaw), yet we threw the ball more than we ran.  In 2007 it was the Bernie show we threw 432 times, ran 408, but we were getting killed by everybody and finished with a 3-9 record.  The only reason we threw that much is because we were desperate, it wasn't by design. 

My guess would be that Snyder thinks 20-22 passes a game is where he wants to be.  He's definately got a Big 10 (old Big 10, not new Big 10) mentality.  Run the ball, control the clock, when you pass only three things can happen and two of them are bad, etc.  Problem is that he does not have, and can not recruit, the talent necessary to be consistently successful with that scheme.

[MUsince96]

Here are some numbers to ponder when it comes to the East having an 'old school' philosophy.

Marshall attempted 351 passes last season, ECU attempted 419, Southern Miss attempted 457, UCF attempted 308.

I'll throw in UAB & Memphis as well. UAB attempted 353, & Memphis attempted 437.

So the teams that threw less or roughly the same as us didn't go bowling (UAB & UCF)

The teams that threw considerably more than us went bowling.

[svherd]

Nice posts Max and 96!