Author Topic: Would this be trademark infringement?  (Read 1331 times)

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Offline herds

Would this be trademark infringement?
« on: September 05, 2012, 02:31:05 PM »
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  • http://www.gobison.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=2400&ATCLID=204978218

    Quote
    The trademark is any mark, word, letters or symbol associated with its owner that can be distinguished from its competitors. These include, but are not limited to: M, MU, Marshall, Marshall University, Marco, The Herd, Big Green, Thundering Herd and the University seal.

    http://www.marshall.edu/licensing/


     

    HerdFans.com

    Would this be trademark infringement?
    « on: September 05, 2012, 02:31:05 PM »

    Offline Greg H

    Re: Would this be trademark infringement?
    « Reply #1 on: September 05, 2012, 02:47:17 PM »
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  • Without question.  Please let AD know.
     

    Offline Herdrulz29

    Re: Would this be trademark infringement?
    « Reply #2 on: September 05, 2012, 02:50:59 PM »
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  • What about The Herd tv show on espn in the mornings???
     

    Offline Greg H

    Re: Would this be trademark infringement?
    « Reply #3 on: September 05, 2012, 03:02:15 PM »
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  • Not sure.  May be an agreement.  Plus, that herd is based on the hosts name.
     

    Offline firstate

    Re: Would this be trademark infringement?
    « Reply #4 on: September 05, 2012, 04:57:59 PM »
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  • I disagree.

    Not specific enough for the courts to consider infringement.

    If it were 'the Thundering herd"...there might would be a case.

    If the logo was exactly the same..perhaps.

    If what they were using was unspecific to what they were ..maybe

    But they are the bisons, bisons run in a herd...

     

    Offline Carolina_Thor

    Re: Would this be trademark infringement?
    « Reply #5 on: September 05, 2012, 05:17:04 PM »
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  • Yeah I don't see the infringement.  I didn't see anything that was blatantly copied. 
     

    Offline sleeinwv

    Re: Would this be trademark infringement?
    « Reply #6 on: September 05, 2012, 09:37:11 PM »
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  • its north dakota state....does it matter....
     

    Offline GreenBison

    Re: Would this be trademark infringement?
    « Reply #7 on: September 05, 2012, 10:20:41 PM »
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  • I disagree.

    Not specific enough for the courts to consider infringement.

    If it were 'the Thundering herd"...there might would be a case.

    If the logo was exactly the same..perhaps.

    If what they were using was unspecific to what they were ..maybe

    But they are the bisons, bisons run in a herd...

    Two football programs using the color green and using the phrase The Herd? In spirit it is an infringement. Just like Apple Music (Beatles Label) sued Apple Computer back in the 80's for Trademark reasons. Apple Music used the argument that you can record music on an Apple Computer.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Corps_v_Apple_Computer

    On a funny note, there is an audio file on every Apple Computer named "sosumi"... get it? So Sue Me!

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sosumi
    « Last Edit: September 05, 2012, 10:25:52 PM by GreenBison »
    The smell of arcrid smoke and horses breath - The Trooper - Steve Harris



     

    Offline banker

    Re: Would this be trademark infringement?
    « Reply #8 on: September 06, 2012, 12:12:20 AM »
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  • We have a trademark/patent attorney running around somewhere on these boards.

    The only thing that matters, I believe, is if we have a trademark on "The Herd".  If we do, and someone else uses it, it's infringement.  Heck, you have to pay Phil Jackson to say "Threepeat".
     

    Offline goherd24

    Re: Would this be trademark infringement?
    « Reply #9 on: September 06, 2012, 01:09:51 AM »
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  • We are worried about crap that doesn't matter. How does this effect us in any way?
     

    Online svherd

    Re: Would this be trademark infringement?
    « Reply #10 on: September 06, 2012, 08:22:50 AM »
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  • No infringement at all. Not even close. The term or words - "The Herd" is generic and not really school specific. Its not worth the time and money to pursue anyway. Trust me, I deal with this and product patents in my work. Its all a shell game. Patents aren't worth the paper they are printed on for the most part. They have to be very specific and anyone that copies something has to do it exactly to get their hands slapped. The most suttle cosmetic change will clear them.


    Herd Rises
    Vision Campaign
    MU Foundation
     

    Offline korun

    Re: Would this be trademark infringement?
    « Reply #11 on: September 06, 2012, 08:29:35 AM »
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  • Their mascot looks WAY better than ours. That is how Marco should have gone if we where forced to change from the original! Also, if anyone actually deserves to use the buffalo and the name the Herd, it would be a place where the buffalo actually roam. I am just sayin :)

     

    HerdFans.com

    Re: Would this be trademark infringement?
    « Reply #11 on: September 06, 2012, 08:29:35 AM »

    Offline korun

    Re: Would this be trademark infringement?
    « Reply #12 on: September 06, 2012, 08:39:19 AM »
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  • Just seen this... looks like they had "The Herd" before us. They are also known as "The Thundering Herd" but thats a nickname and not printed, from what I can see. Also, some of their history sounds really familiar....

    The Bison football team was the winningest program in NCC history with twenty-six conference championships and eight national championships (1965, 1968, 1969, 1983, 1985, 1986, 1988, 1990) before moving to Division I Championship

     North Dakota State University's athletic teams have progressed from the "Farmers" in the 1890s, to the "Aggies" in the early 1900s, to the "Bison," North Dakota State's current athletic symbol. It was developed by head football coach Stan Borleske in 1919 because he and members of the football team didn't like being known as the Aggies.  Borleske wanted a strong and fierce mascot. The Bison was a logical choice. The great animals once roamed the North Dakota prairie in vast numbers, and over the years Bison athletic teams added an additional name, the "Thundering Herd."
     

    Offline GreenBison

    Re: Would this be trademark infringement?
    « Reply #13 on: September 06, 2012, 08:57:44 AM »
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  • Just seen this... looks like they had "The Herd" before us. They are also known as "The Thundering Herd" but thats a nickname and not printed, from what I can see. Also, some of their history sounds really familiar....

    The Bison football team was the winningest program in NCC history with twenty-six conference championships and eight national championships (1965, 1968, 1969, 1983, 1985, 1986, 1988, 1990) before moving to Division I Championship

     North Dakota State University's athletic teams have progressed from the "Farmers" in the 1890s, to the "Aggies" in the early 1900s, to the "Bison," North Dakota State's current athletic symbol. It was developed by head football coach Stan Borleske in 1919 because he and members of the football team didn't like being known as the Aggies.  Borleske wanted a strong and fierce mascot. The Bison was a logical choice. The great animals once roamed the North Dakota prairie in vast numbers, and over the years Bison athletic teams added an additional name, the "Thundering Herd."

    Where does it say they had "Thundering Herd" before us? It just says "Over the years Bison athletic teams added an additional name, the "Thundering Herd."
    The smell of arcrid smoke and horses breath - The Trooper - Steve Harris



     

    Offline korun

    Re: Would this be trademark infringement?
    « Reply #14 on: September 06, 2012, 09:31:52 AM »
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  • Where does it say they had "Thundering Herd" before us? It just says "Over the years Bison athletic teams added an additional name, the "Thundering Herd."

     It doesnt say that. Read it again. What it says is they used the Herd and had that in their name before us. The name "The Thundering Herd" is a nickname. There is no date on when that started. "The Herd" was adopted in 1919. Im just passing on info from their wiki site.
     

    Offline FlyHawk98

    Re: Would this be trademark infringement?
    « Reply #15 on: September 06, 2012, 11:09:13 AM »
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  • I remember a few years back (longer than a few now most likely 5-8 years) Wisconsin either successfully did or at least tried to make Wayne and Weir change their "W's"

    Could be wrong but think I remember this. Why would they care about a high school team in WV lol.
     

    Offline GreenBison

    Re: Would this be trademark infringement?
    « Reply #16 on: September 06, 2012, 11:24:49 AM »
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  • It doesnt say that. Read it again. What it says is they used the Herd and had that in their name before us. The name "The Thundering Herd" is a nickname. There is no date on when that started. "The Herd" was adopted in 1919. Im just passing on info from their wiki site.

    I just see where they adopted Bison in 1919
    The smell of arcrid smoke and horses breath - The Trooper - Steve Harris



     

    Offline GreenBison

    Re: Would this be trademark infringement?
    « Reply #17 on: September 06, 2012, 11:25:50 AM »
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  • I remember a few years back (longer than a few now most likely 5-8 years) Wisconsin either successfully did or at least tried to make Wayne and Weir change their "W's"

    Could be wrong but think I remember this. Why would they care about a high school team in WV lol.

    That was because of their logo not a nickname. Iowa successfully forced Southern Miss to change their logo a couple of years back and I didn't even think they were close.
    The smell of arcrid smoke and horses breath - The Trooper - Steve Harris



     

    Offline IM4DHERD

    Re: Would this be trademark infringement?
    « Reply #18 on: September 06, 2012, 05:24:35 PM »
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  • Here in Charlotte, we meet at Jock's & Jills to watch games when they are available.  The other teams who meet there?  ECU and North Dakota State.
    Make a difference...Join the Big Green

     

    Offline herdman

    Re: Would this be trademark infringement?
    « Reply #19 on: September 06, 2012, 07:09:44 PM »
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  • Here in Charlotte, we meet at Jock's & Jills to watch games when they are available.  The other teams who meet there?  ECU and North Dakota State.

    Does North Dakota State have a better tv package than we do? ;)
     

    Offline Olen

    Re: Would this be trademark infringement?
    « Reply #20 on: September 06, 2012, 08:10:52 PM »
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  • Would this be trademark infringement?

    http://www.gobison.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=2400&ATCLID=204978218

    http://www.marshall.edu/licensing/

    Trademark law and trademark infringement analysis are complex areas of the law - it would probably require a couple of hours and long responses to really drill down on this particular factual scenario, which I doubt anyone really cares enough about to read.  I'll give an quick overview and my opinion for those that might be interested.

    My recollection is that Marshall Univ. has a federally registered trademark for "The Herd" or "Herd" (can't recall which).  Unless North Dakota St. can show trademark use of "The Herd" prior to MU's registration, then NDSU would likely lose in defending against a trademark infringement suit because the marks are identical and in the same type of goods/services.  IF NDSU could show prior use to MU's registration, then it could have rights to use the mark that is limited to the geographic reach it possessed at the time of MU's registration (most likely - the upper midwest). 

    Perhaps the broader question is whether it would get to the point of a lawsuit - MU could reach out and offer NDSU a license to use "The Herd" that is limited in scope and would include disclaimers regarding affiliation with Marshall Univ, the offer to license could be included in any initial "nasty gram" sent to NDSU at the outset to encourage some type of non-suit settlement.  Trademarks are unusual in that fear of trademark erosion is a key motivation in an owner exercising its rights (for example - at one time "Aspirin" and "Escalator" were registered trademarks but were abused by the public to the point that the marks began to represent the product it was associated).  So, it would behoove the university to at least inquire with NDSU about its use, its intentions, and whether there is some non-litigation means for resolving the issues that doesn't damage MU's trademark rights.

    Quote from: svherd
    Patents aren't worth the paper they are printed on for the most part. They have to be very specific and anyone that copies something has to do it exactly to get their hands slapped. The most suttle cosmetic change will clear them.

    Yes and No.  Part of the analysis depends on whether a utility patent or a design patent is at issue.  Design patents usually are of limited scope because of the aesthetic nature of the protection - designing around a design patent (generally) is an issue of creating a different aesthetic.  Rather than aesthetics, utility patents protect arrangement, function, or method using words - which can be broadly or narrowly defined depending on the prior art.  The breadth of protection is ultimately determined at trial (either by the judge or jury), so no one really knows the breadth of protection until it is litigated.  What tends to happen is that the expense of pursuing that answer (either as a plaintiff or defendant) outweighs the expected value of any judgment (or consequence of the judgment) so that a company will go back to the drawing board and design-around the lay-understanding of the patent(s) in question.

    Patents have value for a variety of reasons, although not all necessarily apply to each patent or patent holder.  Some patents are purely marketing tools (e.g., "Widget X is patent pending" or "Widget X - US Pat. No. xxxxxxxx); some are defensive as disclosing a bunch of alternatives that a company does not actually claim or wish to pursue just so that the information is prior art against some late-coming patent filer; some are of limited scope and some are broad (ultimately determined by suit). 

    Depending on what industry you are specifically in, patents can be a net loss because the field is so crowded that only small incremental changes are patentable and such changes are not broad enough to forestall later incremental changes of competitors - esp. industries where "trends" dictate sales are esp. vulnerable.  On the other end of the spectrum is the recent Apple and Samsung patent infringement suit - Samsung was rung up for a $1 billion judgment for infringing Apple patents.   


     

    Offline biggreenarms

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    Re: Would this be trademark infringement?
    « Reply #21 on: September 06, 2012, 08:15:54 PM »
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  • +1

    Thanks Olen for the in depth response. If anyone would know you would.
     

    HerdFans.com

    Re: Would this be trademark infringement?
    « Reply #21 on: September 06, 2012, 08:15:54 PM »

    Offline banker

    Re: Would this be trademark infringement?
    « Reply #22 on: September 06, 2012, 11:26:51 PM »
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  • No infringement at all. Not even close. The term or words - "The Herd" is generic and not really school specific. Its not worth the time and money to pursue anyway. Trust me, I deal with this and product patents in my work. Its all a shell game. Patents aren't worth the paper they are printed on for the most part. They have to be very specific and anyone that copies something has to do it exactly to get their hands slapped. The most suttle cosmetic change will clear them.

    You might want to let Southern Miss know that since Iowa won a case against them last year and USM was forced to change their logo.  Those were two different species of birds and the logos were only remotely similar.
     

    HerdFans.com

    Re: Would this be trademark infringement?
    « Reply #22 on: September 06, 2012, 11:26:51 PM »