Topic: Prayers to all families involved in CT school shooting.

[mxman870]

I cannot understand why such evil has to exist. It hurts so bad to think about the children and what they had to see and endure. Prayers for everyone touched by this senseless and cowardly act.

[mxman870]

I did not see the thread started by BuyNTelos. My apologies for the double post and this one can be removed by mods.

[MUPE84]

Three years ago, I would have just been like "Wow, this world is a crazy place", and I would have felt horrible for the victims and their families, but now I have two children of my own and I'm seeing this totally different than I would have before. One of my children is 14 months and the other will be 3 in January. When I heard this news this morning, my heart sunk and I was (and still am) sick to my stomach. This one hits very close to home. All I can think about is how much I love my children and what these poor families must be going through. I've been hugging my babies extra tight today.

I remember watching coverage of the Columbine shooting with the blood stained exterior walls where the kids had climbed out windows and all of the gruesome sights that the media showed. Being one year removed from high school myself at the time, it hit close to my heart. All I could think about was how the victims were around my age and what an awful thing this had to be for kids my age to experience.

My thoughts of the Columbine tragedy were thoughts of sadness and fear. My thoughts today were totally different. When I look at the footage of the parents carrying their surviving baby away from the school with terrified looks on the children's faces and the daddies hugging tightly to their babies as they carry them home, I just feel awful.

I think about the families who are going to have to go home and look at the stocking on the mantle with the name of their baby who won't be waking up bright and early on the 25th to see what Santa left in it. I think about how every time I look around me there is some kind of reminder of my babies. These parents will have to go home to pictures on the walls, school work on the fridge, empty cars eats and booster seats in their cars, bikes that won't be ridden anymore sitting in their garages, fruit snacks in the pantry that won't be eaten, and memory upon memory of their baby who won't be coming home. I hope and pray that all these parents realize that Jesus Christ loves the little children and I hope they find comfort in knowing that around 9:30 this morning, he was waiting there to take each of these precious babies in his arms.

24 hours ago, I was on here complaining about wvu pictures on a restaraunt wall, and little did I know that something horrible like this was going to happen that puts into perspective what life is really about. I'm sure many of you feel the same way.

+1      Those little ones are safe in His arms.

[mubowhunter]

Right next door to my company Head Quarter.  My heart and prayers go out to the victems families.

[GreenBison60]

What a sad day. What has our culture become? I can only imagine what those parents are going thru. It seems that this country is getting worse and worse and i believe there is a reason for why it has continualy gotten worse. It seems every generation is getting worse and worse. I think the culprit started in the 60's and has been really picking up stem the last couple decades. IMO there is a reason and i will leave it at that.

[Greg H]

What a sad day. What has our culture become? I can only imagine what those parents are going thru. It seems that this country is getting worse and worse and i believe there is a reason for why it has continualy gotten worse. It seems every generation is getting worse and worse. I think the culprit started in the 60's and has been really picking up stem the last couple decades. IMO there is a reason and i will leave it at that.

Exactly

[phillyherdfan]

A good, heady read at the link below.  Something we should all think about as we - as a society and a country - determine how we move on from here.

http://boingboing.net/2012/12/14/what-science-says-about-gun-co.html?utm_medium=referral&utm_source=pulsenews

[Stripeshrt]

Exceptional posts by all! MAYBE the first post of GB60 that I have ever agreed with, makes it all seem very trivial doesnt it. I worked the Tolsia girls CHRISTMAS tournament tonite, Prayers given before each game but during the "moment of silence" absolutely not a sound. Senseless act. Not sure what the answer is but

[Greg H]

Good piece, except insofar as she seems to think my gun rights are negotiable.

[HERDFAN1999]

Good piece, except insofar as she seems to think my gun rights are negotiable.

Agree.

[GreenBison60]

It wouldn't help one iota if you banned guns. All that would do is take guns out of the hands that WOULDN'T do these things. Someone that wants to do these evil things will always be able to find guns. Just like you can always find drugs now. All that would do is keep people like me and you from being able to protect themselves from these idiots. I just can't believe the stupidity from liberals that actually think banning guns would stop these crimes. I carry, and if i'm ever anywhere and i see someone start a shooting like this on innocent civilians i would drop him in a heartbeat, as anyone should.

[Greg H]

It wouldn't help one iota if you banned guns. All that would do is take guns out of the hands that WOULDN'T do these things. Someone that wants to do these evil things will always be able to find guns. Just like you can always find drugs now. All that would do is keep people like me and you from being able to protect themselves from these idiots. I just can't believe the stupidity from liberals that actually think banning guns would stop these crimes. I carry, and if i'm ever anywhere and i see someone start a shooting like this on innocent civilians i would drop him in a heartbeat, as anyone should.

Serious liberals don't want gun bans to stop crime, but to control people.  Soccer moms are different.

[GreenBison60]

Exactly Greg H. But like my other post, when i said something has been leading to this for many years and it's getting worse and worse. Something was taken out of our schools and the culture has been shifting away from something. It's not hard to figure out what has been leaving America at the same time these type of things are getting worse. And it's not a coincidence!!!! And it will continue to get worse as this country is getting farther and farther from what i am talking about. Unless this country returns it's gonna get ugly in America. We ain't seen nothing yet.

[ThunderValley]

It is so sad to see the loss of those babies and the adults.

As long as there are people there will be some that we cannot understand.

I just cannot imagine the hurt when those parents have to go home and see the presents under the Christmas trees. It is heart breaking.

May God bless and comfort those parents that lost loved ones during these troubled times.

[00mag12gaVa]

Exactly Greg H. But like my other post, when i said something has been leading to this for many years and it's getting worse and worse. Something was taken out of our schools and the culture has been shifting away from something. It's not hard to figure out what has been leaving America at the same time these type of things are getting worse. And it's not a coincidence!!!! And it will continue to get worse as this country is getting farther and farther from what i am talking about. Unless this country returns it's gonna get ugly in America. We ain't seen nothing yet.

I read into what your saying clearly, but I also believe the "breakdown" of the family has also contributed. Now, not sure if the breakdown is a "direct" result of what you state is now missing, or a "partial" part, I'm not sure. But I know recent generations have been raised not knowing what a day with Dad at the ballgame is like, haven't helped Grandma garden, etc. Lots of latch key kids over the past few generations. My sons are also very quick to defend the "video" game theory. Me....I have never been a big fan of "shooter" games. I believe they "may" desensitize some people. This is an extremely tragic event and I certainly agree an answer going forward must be found, but taking my right to bear arms should not be in the equation.

[phillyherdfan]

Good piece, except insofar as she seems to think my gun rights are negotiable.

Well, these are not YOUR gun rights, they are OUR gun rights.  Which means EVERYONE has a say... And in a democracy, this absolutely makes them negotiable.

I'm certainly not proposing anything, but the point of the article was that no one wants this to happen again, so how do both sides meet at common ground to accomplish that goal.

[goherd24]

Well, these are not YOUR gun rights, they are OUR gun rights.  Which means EVERYONE has a say... And in a democracy, this absolutely makes them negotiable.

I'm certainly not proposing anything, but the point of the article was that no one wants this to happen again, so how do both sides meet at common ground to accomplish that goal.

Gun ownership is a constitutional RIGHT! That is nonnegotiable. There is no negotiating that, period. Someone comes into my home and threatens my family, they will be met with a. 45 or a. 223 ar, depending on the room i am in at the time.


You want to fix this problem? Let teachers carry weapons, or have an ARMED security guard at the school and make it known they are armed. These cowards would not attempt such a thing then and if they did, ot gives us a chance that innocent lives can be saved. There will always be deviants and evil people out there that do these things, you cant stop it, but you can be ready for it and try to deter it from happening to you and your school. "All weapons prohibited" sign, just means "hey, no one here can fight back! Have a good time"

[HERDFAN1999]

Well, these are not YOUR gun rights, they are OUR gun rights. 

You're wrong.  It is an individual right and not a collective right.  The issue has already been decided.  Just like the 4th Amendment protects YOU from search and seizure, the 1st protects YOUR right to free speech...etc.  Those that don't agree with it need to change the Constitution.  You can debate how far you think restrictions go before they "infringe" on the "Right to keep and bear arms" but there is no reasonable debate as to whether it is an individual right or not.  That part of the Heller decision was 7-2.  

[Greg H]

Well, these are not YOUR gun rights, they are OUR gun rights.  Which means EVERYONE has a say... And in a democracy, this absolutely makes them negotiable.

Your ignorance of the nature of rights is stupefying.  The whole point of a "right" is that it is not subject to debate.  Further, we do NOT live in or want "democracy."  That you would say otherwise shows how shockingly uneducated you are.  Democracy = 3 male rapists and a woman defining consent by popular vote.  Segregation was "democracy."  That what you want.  Didn't think so Einstein.

There are red lines the government must not cross.  The right to own semi-automatic, magazine fed rifles and pistols (yes, the scary ones with high capacity magazines) is one of them.  They will not cross this line as to my guns.  If they do pass a law, I will not comply.  If they try to confiscate mine (doubt they would), I will resist...with violence.  Don't like it?  Too f*cking bad.  Some things are simply not negotiable, no matter how many of the mob-ocracy are on board.   

[GreenBison60]

Yes i also think the breakdown of the family is HUGE. I also think when we took God out of our schools and the constant attack on Christianity is when things started downhill. We as a country have never been this far from God and mocked Christianity so much. And the more our country goes from these things the more evil we have been seeing. It's not a coicendance. We as a country are moving away from him at an even faster pace everyday. And it's only going to get worse for our country if it doesn't change. Mark it down. Guns have been around forever. It's not the guns....it's the changing culture of our kids, the way they are raised. Like someone said about the breakdown of the family and the constant movement away from the maker.

[BuyNtelos4]

Yes i also think the breakdown of the family is HUGE. I also think when we took God out of our schools and the constant attack on Christianity is when things started downhill. We as a country have never been this far from God and mocked Christianity so much. And the more our country goes from these things the more evil we have been seeing. It's not a coicendance. We as a country are moving away from him at an even faster pace everyday. And it's only going to get worse for our country if it doesn't change. Mark it down. Guns have been around forever. It's not the guns....it's the changing culture of our kids, the way they are raised. Like someone said about the breakdown of the family and the constant movement away from the maker.

+1

[GreenBison60]

Thank you NTELOS. I thought i might get a "your crazy" you religious freak from some. And it will probably still be coming from some. Although i am not a current church goer. I strongly believe in him and what it takes for the country to get back on track. I firmly believe the road the country is heade the worse it will get. It's commonsense...you take good away and evil will step in!!!!

[BipolarFan]

LMAO, you know, I have guns, but if the government changes the law and comes for mine one day, I'll hand them over with a smile on my face.

You know why?

I'm only outgunned by a factor of about a TRILLION.  I'm not suicidal.

And why can't I own an automatic gun?  Why only semi?

[phillyherdfan]

Herdfan 1999.... I was not discussing individual vs. collective rights.  I was simply making a statement that it's time for a civil debate where all voices are heard to come to solution.

I'm not going to stoop to your level, Greg H, except to say that as someone who has a JD, I can assure you I've studied more constitutional law than you.  Further, I do believe you need a better understanding of what the Constitution is and how it is used and (most importantly) that it is a living document which is constantly modified (interpreted) by judges all over the US.  This is the very basis of how American law works.  Legal philosopher Ronald Dworkin put it best: "the Constitution is a story being written collectively by each generation of judges. Each judge has a responsibility to respect the characters and plot left her by her predecessors, but brings the story up to date in terms of plot and character development."

And this is how we interpret the First, Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments... freedom of speech, is constantly being extended to media types of which the Founders never dreamed of; why wouldn't we adapt the Second Amendment to changing circumstances the same way?

It may be important to note, that I have always been a supporter of individual gun rights and a proponent of the states rights to govern.  However, with the societal changes we have seen in this country and the increase in these senseless killings, I believe it demands us to take a harder look at what can be done to ensure it never happens again.

I posted an article that simply asked that the 2 sides enter into a conversation that begins with - "no one wants these killing to occur, so how do we come together to solve the problem"?

I think the basic problem with these arguments is that the anti-gun lobby see's no positive use or benefit to the use of guns and so artificially ignores the needs of those that do have a legitimate use...similarly the pro-gun lobby, dresses their arguments up in philosophical rhetoric about personal freedom and defense against state tyranny. It would seem to me that we are actually weighing the risk of a certain number of gun related killings against the pleasure and enjoyment that many citizens get from marksmanship, hunting and other peaceful pursuits.

On balance, I would personally forego my few hours of target practice each year if it would bring back just one of those 20 kids....  But that's just me, one voice among millions that should be heard as this issue is discussed.

[The E-Man]

Herdfan 1999.... I was not discussing individual vs. collective rights.  I was simply making a statement that it's time for a civil debate where all voices are heard to come to solution.

I'm not going to stoop to your level, Greg H, except to say that as someone who has a JD, I can assure you I've studied more constitutional law than you.  Further, I do believe you need a better understanding of what the Constitution is and how it is used and (most importantly) that it is a living document which is constantly modified (interpreted) by judges all over the US.  This is the very basis of how American law works.  Legal philosopher Ronald Dworkin put it best: "the Constitution is a story being written collectively by each generation of judges. Each judge has a responsibility to respect the characters and plot left her by her predecessors, but brings the story up to date in terms of plot and character development."

And this is how we interpret the First, Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments... freedom of speech, is constantly being extended to media types of which the Founders never dreamed of; why wouldn't we adapt the Second Amendment to changing circumstances the same way?

It may be important to note, that I have always been a supporter of individual gun rights and a proponent of the states rights to govern.  However, with the societal changes we have seen in this country and the increase in these senseless killings, I believe it demands us to take a harder look at what can be done to ensure it never happens again.

I posted an article that simply asked that the 2 sides enter into a conversation that begins with - "no one wants these killing to occur, so how do we come together to solve the problem"?

I think the basic problem with these arguments is that the anti-gun lobby see's no positive use or benefit to the use of guns and so artificially ignores the needs of those that do have a legitimate use...similarly the pro-gun lobby, dresses their arguments up in philosophical rhetoric about personal freedom and defense against state tyranny. It would seem to me that we are actually weighing the risk of a certain number of gun related killings against the pleasure and enjoyment that many citizens get from marksmanship, hunting and other peaceful pursuits.

On balance, I would personally forego my few hours of target practice each year if it would bring back just one of those 20 kids....  But that's just me, one voice among millions that should be heard as this issue is discussed.

Phillyherdfan, this is one of the most in-depth heartfelt post I've ever read on Herd fans. God help our country make the right decisions about our future. We are in need of a Christian awakening!