Topic: Consider this

[Killer Buffalo]

Vinny Curry, Doug Legursky, Albert McClellan, Daniel Baldridge, C.J. Spillman,  Omar Brown, Delvin Johnson, Wesley Jones, and Johnny Jones all made it to the NFL. What did they have in common before coming to MU?

All were 2 star prospects.

Then, consider some of the others who were highly rated but never worked out here. Travon Van, Brian Roberson, and Jonathan Garner are three that come to mind.

So if you are one to get hung-up on the "star thing," then maybe this tidbit of information will help you out.

[djszincgt]

The only thing the star system tells you is how well they performed in highschool.  You never know what's going to happen once they get to the next level.  Now obviously there are exceptions, but I do not get all wrapped up in the star system.  I'd rather have a coachable kid that has shown signs of mediocre talent then a kid that has a lot of talent but has attitude issues and can't be coached.  Just my $.02.

[Greg H]

Of course, there is always the Randy Moss trump card...but, I think he's the only truly elite H.S. athlete we've ever seen (and that will probably remain the case).

[Dunk]

Yes, but points and decisions should not made based on individual athletes that happen to be an outlier.

The main point of interest is that ON AVERAGE higher rated recruits produce more on the field. By recruiting the best recruits possible you are maximizing your chances of being a successful team. It is not an exact science as some players underachieve and others overachieve, but you are trying to increase your probability of a good team.

Attempting to make points based off the performance of a few individuals is short-sighted.

We should all be quite happy about the recruits we have been able to obtain under Doc's reign. They will be essential to our growth over the coming years. Some of them are getting second chances, but that is a good thing and I am proud of the fact we are providing that chance. If they act up while they are here history shows that Doc will cut them loose and that is what makes it all perfectly fine.

[The E-Man]

Vinny Curry, Doug Legursky, Albert McClellan, Daniel Baldridge, C.J. Spillman,  Omar Brown, Delvin Johnson, Wesley Jones, and Johnny Jones all made it to the NFL. What did they have in common before coming to MU?

All were 2 star prospects.

Then, consider some of the others who were highly rated but never worked out here. Travon Van, Brian Roberson, and Jonathan Garner are three that come to mind.

So if you are one to get hung-up on the "star thing," then maybe this tidbit of information will help you out.

I've seen players be rated with a 4 or 3 star tag until the come to Marshall. All of a sudden their star rating drops a few degrees, go figure?

[yogiherd]

I've seen players be rated with a 4 or 3 star tag until the come to Marshall. All of a sudden their star rating drops a few degrees, go figure?

it's the kayo curse--as in kayo's opinion about MU can't get/ keep a good coach because it's not that good of a job. when a highly rated recruit signs with MU the kayo curse calls the ratings and tells them 'the true rating' the recruit should have!  even though kayo is no longer the AD his curse still hovers over the campus.:o

[jstherd]

IMO, Dunk has it right.

[goherdies]

I've seen players be rated with a 4 or 3 star tag until the come to Marshall. All of a sudden their star rating drops a few degrees, go figure?

To be fair, sometimes that is because they appear like they may have trouble qualifying and that DOES affect the star rating.  If a player may not be able to contribute for a few years that changes how they are viewed as a prospect. 

[Big Ol' Hillbilly]

I've seen players be rated with a 4 or 3 star tag until the come to Marshall. All of a sudden their star rating drops a few degrees, go figure?

That's happened at least 3 times on rivals this year. Kevin Anderson, Michael Selby, and (i think) Gerald Wright were 3 stars when they committed to us. They are all 2 stars now. I look Stefan Houston and Jean-Louis to both be 3 stars by the time signing day rolls around. It's a bunch of garbage. I've seen plenty of times when a 2 star gets bumped up to a 3 and a 3 star gets bumped to a 4 when they commited to a bcs school. Did I mention it's a bunch of garbage?

[Johnnyherd]

Also I think the star system uses high school competion and combines / camps to tell your "athletic" ability.   But, there is a difference between being a great athlete and being a great D-1 football player.  

You take a look at any post high school track event and you'll see guys that are faster than heck, but they can't / won't / don't play football.    Being very fast or being a great leaper doesn't make you a great football player.  

Same thing with basketball, being 6' 8" alone, in high school, means you will absolutely dominate.  Being 6' 8 in college just means you're one of the forwards on your team.

[MUfan08]

Yes, but points and decisions should not made based on individual athletes that happen to be an outlier.

The main point of interest is that ON AVERAGE higher rated recruits produce more on the field. By recruiting the best recruits possible you are maximizing your chances of being a successful team. It is not an exact science as some players underachieve and others overachieve, but you are trying to increase your probability of a good team.

Attempting to make points based off the performance of a few individuals is short-sighted.

We should all be quite happy about the recruits we have been able to obtain under Doc's reign. They will be essential to our growth over the coming years. Some of them are getting second chances, but that is a good thing and I am proud of the fact we are providing that chance. If they act up while they are here history shows that Doc will cut them loose and that is what makes it all perfectly fine.

This...

To the original posture, all that list shows is that we took chances on players and it worked out for us pretty well.

Curry went to a prep school and still had to prop here
Legursky played for a Beckley team that wasn't that good that year and he had knee problems
McClellan was considered an undersized LB, let alone an undersized DE. We wanted his brother and other teammate more than him
Baldridge was a project that worked out for us, he had never played football until his senior year of high school
Spillman was at a Prep school and Pruett recruited him as a WR, he came here and was moved to DB because he couldn't catch the ball consistently
Brown was a grey-shirt that was a very late qualifier (didn't get eligible until the end of summer)
Johnson was a prop
Wes Jones was a JUCO
Johnny Jones like Baldridge was a project that didn't play football until his senior year of high school. Snyder even talked about how he was offered after watching him play basketball

Again, Marshall just needs to keep finding those situational players and taking chances on them. Look at the Freshman All-American that we currently have, two (Hunter and Grooms) were rated 4 Stars, while Williams wasn't rated and was a walk-on. Recruiting isn't a science as some like to make it out to be because all things are not taken into consideration.

[Peter Griffin]

Scouting for any type of athlete is a very inexact science.  Looking at how a high school kid is and trying to rate them is very difficult, sometimes they get it right and sometimes they do not.  An interesting comparison is to see how a college athlete is scouted for the pros in any given sport.  Its always fascinating to read about the all time draft busts because these players were so hyped up coming out of college and never delivered.  The same thing happens in college with recruiting services, a really hyped up kid in high school comes in and sometimes they tank or live up to the hype, but most go on to have an average career and never play a down past college.  Either rivals or scout used to every year put out an article about the top 10 or so recruits from 5 years ago, some years, you've only heard of one or two of them after 5 years.

[herdman]

Alabama's roster is full of 4 star recruits. While it is not an exact science it is a good measuring stick in most cases.  The best way to analyze it IMO is to see who all has OFFERED a recruit. If Les Miles, Nic Saban, and Wil Mushcamp have offered a guy then most likely they are pretty good and have a big upside.

A team with a bunch of 4 stars is going to be better than a team with a bunch of 2 stars. The thing is in a conference like CUSA, or other mid majors, there isn't a huge gap in talent.

[Johnnyherd]

The best way to analyze it IMO is to see who all has OFFERED a recruit. If Les Miles, Nic Saban, and Wil Mushcamp have offered a guy then most likely they are pretty good and have a big upside.

I don't think it's hard to identify the nation's most elite high school recruits.  It's finding the great players that we have a chance at signing that is much more difficult.

[Greg H]

I don't think it's hard to identify the nation's most elite high school recruits.  It's finding the great players that we have a chance at signing that is much more difficult.

And Doc is clearly very good at this.

[goherdies]

And Doc is clearly very good at this.

Is he?  He is good at signing players that are ranked higher by rivals than those Snyder signed. He hasn't been able to be successful with them though.

I'd rather he signed players that won.

[Dunk]

Is he?  He is good at signing players that are ranked higher by rivals than those Snyder signed. He hasn't been able to be successful with them though.

I'd rather he signed players that won.

You mean the freshman and sophomores he had on the team this past season? A lot of our major contributions have came from underclassmen. That is a testament to the players Doc has brought in. In the next year or two his recruits will be upperclassmen and we will see his plan in full.

[goherdies]

You mean the freshman and sophomores he had on the team this past season? A lot of our major contributions have came from underclassmen. That is a testament to the players Doc has brought in. In the next year or two his recruits will be upperclassmen and we will see his plan in full.

Yes. The ones that couldn't qualify for a bowl in a huge down year fir C-USA. Likes said, I don't care about stars but I want him to recruit players that win. So far his haven't.

He'd have a lot more upperclassmen if his recruits didn't always have to sit out a year.

[Dunk]

Yes. The ones that couldn't qualify for a bowl in a huge down year fir C-USA. Likes said, I don't care about stars but I want him to recruit players that win. So far his haven't.

He'd have a lot more upperclassmen if his recruits didn't always have to sit out a year.

Define "always"

It isn't even the majority.

Doc's recruits haven't been playing at the college level long enough to have everything expected of them. Many of them out performed their upperclassmen counterparts. There was a complete change in philosophy from Snyder to Doc and it takes time for the proper players to be in place. We are transitioning from an attempt at big, strong, and slow to an attempt at a smaller, faster squad.

These "excuses" that I am making will not be valid in 2 years so there will be no question at that time, but until then Doc deserves our support and faith in the program he is building.

[Johnnyherd]

While I know wins and losses are the only standard that matters.  But, to me, we are light years better off with Doc than we were with Snyder.   

When Snyder was the coach we didn't belong on the field with half the teams we played every year.   With Doc most of the time we've had a chance to win. 

Yeah, we only won 5 this year, but we had a legit chance to win 10.

[extragreen]

Define "always"

It isn't even the majority.

Doc's recruits haven't been playing at the college level long enough to have everything expected of them. Many of them out performed their upperclassmen counterparts. There was a complete change in philosophy from Snyder to Doc and it takes time for the proper players to be in place. We are transitioning from an attempt at big, strong, and slow to an attempt at a smaller, faster squad.

These "excuses" that I am making will not be valid in 2 years so there will be no question at that time, but until then Doc deserves our support and faith in the program he is building.

Define "deserves".

He will deserve our support and faith when he's done something to deserve it. 5-7, 7-6, 5-7 "deserve" nothing.

[extragreen]

While I know wins and losses are the only standard that matters.  But, to me, we are light years better off with Doc than we were with Snyder.   

When Snyder was the coach we didn't belong on the field with half the teams we played every year.   With Doc most of the time we've had a chance to win. 

Yeah, we only won 5 this year, but we had a legit chance to win 10.

We were 15 points away from winning 10 in 2009. We won 7. This year we were 38 points away from winning 10. We won 5. Nothing has changed as of yet.

[kjh]

How many stars did Amad Bradshaw have? Lee Smith?

[Johnnyherd]

Nothing has changed as of yet.

I think things have definately changed, we have the best offense in the nation and the future is bright, imo...

[Big Ol' Hillbilly]

Dunk, you're wasting your time arguing with a wvu fan. Wolf, when are you gonna turn goherdies blue? It's long overdue.