Topic: The Great MAC Irony of Marshall Fandom

[_sturt_]

We used to wonder how these fans of Miami, Ball State, Ohio, Toledo, Bowling Green et al had become so content with their status in a conference no one cared about, vying for championships that no one cared about.

I recall vividly how they used to mock us for thinking that we could become something better, to raise to some national acclaim... at the very least, to become something better than that school up north.

But now, after ten years or so of mediocrity and with that school up north now playing in a real conference, many of you have lost your swagger, not just a little bit, but totally... and you've become what many of you used to loathe... a MAC fan... just a southern-based one now.

Figure there's a whole bunch of MAC fans who used to despise us, smiling big and wide at the knowledge that we've been  humbled, our ambition is exhausted, and we're now going to be settling into a football conference arguably a notch below theirs.

Happy day. Let's celebrate with them, eh? We've finally reached our proper place in the NCAA football universe.

[bighat]

Humbled!!! No!!! I was humbled on November 14, 1970.  I am not humbled now.  Despite what you tell us almost everyday on this forum, I think we are in the appropriate conference with people like us.  I am disappointed not being in a conference with East Carolina.  I think they fit in this conference as we do.  This is a blue collar conference just as we are a blue collar school and I am proud of that distinction.  We are a conference looking for a future.  I am proud to be in a conference with Southern Miss., Western Kentucky, Middle Tennessee.  We are all fighting for recognition in states were we have big brothers.  Persistence wins.

[svherd]

Greg (Sturt), I know you love to debate, but to antagonize? Shame sir.

[luvherd]

If you care so much about why we aren't in a conference to meet your standard, why so you not give to BG? Money talks and BS walks.

[_sturt_]

(lol... I suppose when people start name-calling... in this case, using real names... hehe... you can assume you've touched a nerve, eh?)

Mr. A___, I didn't call any one person out... made a general and coherent observation.

Shame? Are you kidding me? I've been trying to get people to remember who they've been... to regain some pride... to not give up prematurely.

But I keep running into people who say "just win"... people who allege that there are external barriers preventing us from success--who are the same people who've been alleging for years that the barriers were, instead, internal.

Mark Snyder has to be wondering "Where the heck were these excuse-makers when I was the head coach?"

So, yeah... it occurred to me recently... we... or at least some of us... are now the carbon copy mindset of those MAC fans we used to smirk at. Irony, indeed.

[_sturt_]

If you care so much about why we aren't in a conference to meet your standard, why so you not give to BG? Money talks and BS walks.

Ahhhhh... don't like the message, attack the messenger. Brilliant. Well, this is new, ain't it... not used to people trying to distract from the content of the thread when they have no better response... hehe.

Hey, luv... let's you and I get together to compare charitable giving some day, my friend. I'm sure you make more than I do, but as a percentage of income, I figure I hold my own. And moreover, you'll learn as we go through the receipts that I give anonymously to most of the organizations to which I choose to give.

I was like you at one time, and then I made the mistake of questioning someone who I knew to be a big Herd fan but didn't contribute like I thought he should have... only to learn of some family medical hardships, and to be completely embarrassed by my callousness and presumption... never did that again.

Just sayin.

And... "my" standard?

As-if I stand alone in wanting to remain with our current peers?

As-if I stand alone in not wanting to go backward?

[Killer Buffalo]

As far as CUSA being a notch below the MAC--I don't buy that. They did have a great year this past season and maybe for once they were better.

[luvherd]

As far as CUSA being a notch below the MAC--I don't buy that. They did have a great year this past season and maybe for once they were better.

Plus new CUSA will have better attendance and spirit than current CUSA and the MAC. Going to be a fun conference.

[svherd]

We all have opinions and many are strong in that regard. I think Sturt has more than communicated his stance and several of us our own. Lets leave it alone. None of us can change our plight but we (Marshall) can make the best of it and that starts by winning!

[jstherd]

Sturt never changes his message and people who get upset with his dribble should be ashamed. Me? I just laugh at his better than you are attitude and go to the nest topic.

[backontrack]

I assume sturt has a can't-miss hyypothesis that will get us into the SEC, ACC, Big 12, or B1G 10???...to get us out of our acceptance of low expectations...I'm all ears...

[vandalia]

We used to wonder how these fans of Miami, Ball State, Ohio, Toledo, Bowling Green et al had become so content with their status in a conference no one cared about, vying for championships that no one cared about.

I recall vividly how they used to mock us for thinking that we could become something better, to raise to some national acclaim... at the very least, to become something better than that school up north.

But now, after ten years or so of mediocrity and with that school up north now playing in a real conference, many of you have lost your swagger, not just a little bit, but totally... and you've become what many of you used to loathe... a MAC fan... just a southern-based one now.

Figure there's a whole bunch of MAC fans who used to despise us, smiling big and wide at the knowledge that we've been  humbled, our ambition is exhausted, and we're now going to be settling into a football conference arguably a notch below theirs.

Happy day. Let's celebrate with them, eh? We've finally reached our proper place in the NCAA football universe.

he has a great point.

marshall has been passed by our peers

there's no way to put lipstick on this pig

by not moving, marshall has moved down

vandalia

[_sturt_]

As far as CUSA being a notch below the MAC--I don't buy that. They did have a great year this past season and maybe for once they were better.

Not talking past. Talking future. New CUSA is made up of 8 Sun Belt or FCS level schools. Among remaining CUSA schools, the only consistent winner is Tulsa, and they're a "done deal" to be next out the door.

By the admission and inference of so many of the quarter-fullers here who have said that we should dominate the new conference, unless you think we would dominate the MAC (?!?), you'd have a hard time making the case that the new conference isn't #4 of the Group of Five.

[vandalia]

Plus new CUSA will have better attendance and spirit than current CUSA and the MAC. Going to be a fun conference.

please tell me how you can measure any of those three indicators without actually having spent at least one season in the league

[kjh]

Sturt never changes his message and people who get upset with his dribble should be ashamed. Me? I just laugh at his better than you are attitude and go to the nest topic.

I too get tired of his lengthy rambling and skip to the next post. He obviously is impressed by his self, so just skip and move on.

[_sturt_]

he has a great point.

marshall has been passed by our peers

there's no way to put lipstick on this pig

by not moving, marshall has moved down

vandalia

While I appreciate the realism, vandalia, my primary point is that the fat lady hasn't sung on our chance to maintain pace with the defectors... and these quarter-fullers... while I appreciate their desire to stay positive... are inadvertently and counter-productively relieving our current administration of the necessity/stress/pressure to use every political mechanism at their disposal to keep pace. They're premature in looking for the positive... to the point of even embracing the new lesser environment.

[_sturt_]

We all have opinions and many are strong in that regard. I think Sturt has more than communicated his stance and several of us our own. Lets leave it alone. None of us can change our plight but we (Marshall) can make the best of it and that starts by winning!

U.S. citizens do not control federal spending... they do not control the unemployment rate... no single individual can affect the economy.

So, by the logic you're pushing, might as well hush-up and look at the bright side... first that we're not Greece... and second, if real unemployment is at ~15%, then let's celebrate those 85%, eh?...

Nah... it's a good thing that people let their congressmen know that they're not okay with things as-is, and that they're being held accountable for getting us out of this mess.

Similarly, it's a good thing that people let MU administration know that this isn't okay, and that they are getting failing grades if they fail to do whatever can be done to save us from getting pushed backward.

[_sturt_]

Sturt never changes his message and people who get upset with his dribble should be ashamed. Me? I just laugh at his better than you are attitude and go to the nest topic.

After you stop laughing and having told others they should be ashamed, maybe you can help me overcome my better-than-you-are attitude, jst... you clearly don't struggle with it like me...   ::)

But having said that... I agree that I never change my message... well, at least, I won't until this thing is locked in. This is *the* major crossroads for Marshall athletics for the next 5-10 years. It matters. Something this important ought to dominate the conversation, just like nationally, no issue trumps our debt problems in terms of long-term importance. 

And I like the part that says you move on to the next topic. Good for you.

[_sturt_]

I assume sturt has a can't-miss hyypothesis that will get us into the SEC, ACC, Big 12, or B1G 10???...to get us out of our acceptance of low expectations...I'm all ears...

Nah. I have asserted that until the BCS revenue structure is finalized, there remains *at minimum* one political chess move that can be made.

And Conference TBA consists mainly of our current peers. Your reduction-to-the-absurd is too absurd to be meaningful.

And surely you're not denying the lowered expectations.

[_sturt_]

please tell me how you can measure any of those three indicators without actually having spent at least one season in the league

Not sure about the "spirit" part, but except for Charlotte, we can get some idea on attendance (bear in mind that 2011 is most recent NCAA has published, but I looked up UTSA's 2012 numbers separately since they ascended to the WAC from FCS last season)...

• CUSA Defectors' Average Home Attendance: 29,454
  
• CUSA Left-Behinds' Average Home Attendance: 22,870
  
• CUSA Newbies' Average Home Attendance: 20,544
  
• MAC Average Home Attendance: 17,033
  

So... probably better attendance than MAC... but no way is future CUSA going to beat current CUSA.

[mckayt]

Nauseating, seriously.  I know I don't need to read these threads, but there isn't much going on right now.

[DJdaHERDfan]

Honestly, sturt, I have to somewhat agree with ya.

But it's not about being in the MAC or being in CUSA or being in the American12.
For Marshall, it's about the right leadership to have the right vision for the sports programs and willing to raise the funds necessary to compete on a national level.
Not trying to have a top25 football program on a peanut budget.
Not trying to improve basketball with high paid coach.
Not having a baseball stadium for baseball program.
Not supporting athletics like they should.

Marshall is not broke. They just choose to use the peanut budget philosophy.

That's why MU is what it is.

[_sturt_]

I don't know pro or con about the peanut budget thing... haven't studied their budget, though I have devoted some time to studying the revenue side.

But I continue to wait for one of the Mark Snyder critics to step forward and apologize for having expected too much of him, since, evidently in their heart-of-hearts, they truly believed all along that he couldn't compete with the competition because he didn't have the same resources as his competition.

Either that, or to put aside this whole notion that we can't compete because we don't have private donations comparable to ECU.

That we've been competing and even winning is either evidence that we've had some very good coaching after all, or that the private donations part is not as crucial and consequential as it's been portrayed.

Back to the original point tho...

To have defaulted in the first place to this mindset that we can't truly expect to compete at the highest levels is the essence of evolving into a MAC fan. Standards get lowered. Memories of taking schools like Ohio State and Georgia and Kansas State and Tennessee... and giving them all they could handle... seem like they must have been dreams... they couldn't have been real, could they?

No. They were real.

[goherd24]

No question new cusa is below the mac athletically. And we will be money wise when contract is up as well. Avting like we arent is delusional at best and blind to reality.

Sturt, it is human nature to scorn what you don't have/csnt achieve, IE "I dont want to be in that stupid no name conference, we have local teams with more upside that have never played football. We are better off!" Or "I didnt want that job promotion that Bob got, I dont brown nose like him, I wold have turned it down (when secretly I applied for it)"

Supporting our school is one thing, acting like we are in a better position than we were athletically and in a national regard, is just plain stupid. How many of yo would say the mac would be better if theylost ohio, cmu, toledo, ball state and kent statr and added florida gulf coast, iona, st marys and eastern kentucky? I vould hear it now "you guys dont know it yet and I know they havent even played a down of football at most of those schools, but they built stadiums, have a huge fan base and will be really good in 3 years. The MAC is so much better and now they will get more tv money in those new markets!"

 ::)

[_sturt_]

Can't emphasize enough... I'm not railing against the "keep it positive" attitude...

I'm railing, first and foremost, against prematurely concluding that our administration has done everything they can do to keep us with our current peers because as they survey their daily list of to-dos, that priority is so likely to slip down their list in direct correlation to how they perceive it has slipped down the fans' priority list.

And, yes, along with goherd24, vandalia, to some extent DJ and others... I'm railing against making things up just for the sake of staying positive.

Both of those underpin the gist of this thread... which again is that the quarter-fullers are sounding a lot like those Toledo and Ohio and Miami fans that we used to verbally fence with... that we'd be sorry for having such high expectations for ourselves and that we'd eventually realize after being in CUSA for awhile that we'd been too big for our proverbial britches and cherish the days when we competed at the MAC level.

While Mr. A, aka svherd, considered that as "antagonistic" and others have responded similarly... that reaction is analogous to seeing a player's eyes widen as he shakes his head, having had some smelling salt waved beneath his nose.

You quarter-fullers who are reading this... don't blame the guy using the smelling salts... instead, appreciate the fact that someone tried to wake you up to realize the hazy state you've been in.