Topic: Ouch. It gets worse. What will be the excuse this time?

[_sturt_]

The quote from Hamrick (not sure where it came from - no link so cannot review the entire context)

http://www.herdfans.com/12thman/index.php?topic=69632.0

Again, the quote says straightforward that the exit fee itself is a flat $500K... and then that there is other money that is contingent on "if the next contract is less than the current one."

Is he talking about a renegotiated contract as the "next" contract, or is he referring to the contract that will be negotiated after this 3 year term is done... someone needs to ask him to clarify.

[IM4DHERD]

Now to me,

"Our TV package is solid for the next three years," Hamrick countered. "As far as I know renegotiations aren't scheduled. Our TV partners like the new Conference USA teams and markets.

means our TV package is solid for the next three years and there is no indication of or knowledge of any renegotiations.  No need to try to read something sinister between the lines.  Saying you are not aware of something isn't implicitly saying the possibility exists, it simply says you are not aware of something.

Also, I am inclined to think that Hamrick simply didn't go into all the detail that many others have outlined to mean an additional $6.13M from each school in addition to the flat base $500k fee.

"Also, the exit fee for the [departing] schools is a flat $500,000. But the schools must also pay the difference if the next contract is less than the current one. I'd be surprised if the next contract is less, but if it is, the former schools have to collectively make up the difference."

Further this states that we are guaranteed at least as much money no matter what the level of the TV contract.  Any drop in media payouts will be covered by the schools that left.  Perhaps if he was asked to outline all the details of the buyouts and what MU is expected to get, he would answer that question.

The "next" contract would be the next contract...Doesn't matter when it occurs.

No need to read anything more into a simple statement.

[BHFIOHIO]

its called spin....dig?

[_sturt_]

Perhaps if he was asked to outline all the details of the buyouts and what MU is expected to get, he would answer that question.

You indicate that you know precisely what he was asked... so, since you were there, would you care to share your transcript?

The "next" contract would be the next contract...Doesn't matter when it occurs.

Hold up.

If "next" contract is referring to a potentially renegotiated one, then it merely means that Marshall and leftovers are guaranteed to not suffer from a lesser contract in these remaining 3 years... which, I figure most of us already assumed was the case. I don't know that I ever would have considered that part of an "exit fee" since we wouldn't actually be getting anything above what we were always supposed to get, had they left or not.

If "next" contract is referring to the contract that would follow after these 3 years and is yet to be negotiated, then if there is no renegotiation, that would be good, as long as that next contract was a long-term contract of some sort... on the other hand, if there is a renegotiation, as I think Hamrick inadvertently hints he is anticipating, as I said in my original post, the earlier projections would fall excruciatingly short of what was reported back-when.

And regardless, it appears that Hamrick is saying there are two parts to what has been referenced as an exit fee... the "flat $500k" plus other money intended to make up for what we always would have gotten had the Big East raid not taken place... which is very different from the earlier understanding that the $6.6 mil was itself the fee, and that that was over and above what our current TV contract was scheduled to pay out to us.

So anyhow, you're welcome to your inclinations... I don't make the accusation that you're "spinning" just because you choose to voice those.

Reasonable people understand that it's left cloudy, and probably not smart to assume their interpretation is the only one that has validity.

And remember, this isn't a vital point to those of us who think you're being premature is being Pollyannas... we thought it's a bad deal before, we think it's potentially an even worse deal now. Potentially much, much worse. Potentially, we might learn that the real "spin" has come from the CUSA official who originally put the $6.6 million estimate out there.

And again, for Marshall's sake, I'd like to think you're right in your inclination. But hopefully someone will pursue it and we'll get more precise info sometime soon.

[IM4DHERD]

.

[IM4DHERD]

Never indicated any such thing.  Simply assumed that wasn't the direction of the questioning based on the answer.  I tend to take things at face value, not twist words and read between the lines.

Hamrick specifically said he is unaware of any renegotiation.  Perhaps he said so because Vingle asked if he was aware of any, I do not know.  I find it hard to believe based on what he said that 1. he is hinting that there will be renegotiation and 2. that he is referring to one in his next sentence when noting the guarantee of no lower revenues.

Taking Hamrick at his word, he is saying that our next contract, after the current solid 3 years he refers to, is guaranteed to be no less than the current one or the schools that have left will be obligated to pay CUSA the difference.

The entire $6.63M may have been referred to as an Exit Fee, but it has been reported that there is a contractual base $500k then a poison pill component which, if I recall correctly, equals something like each school's annual share of the TV contract times 5 years.  I am sure the detail is out there, but Landon, Bogaczyk, CBS and others have all reported the $6.63M number so I assume it has been well researched.

[luvherd]

Never indicated any such thing.  Simply assumed that wasn't the direction of the questioning based on the answer.  I tend to take things at face value, not twist words and read between the lines.

Hamrick specifically said he is unaware of any renegotiation.  Perhaps he said so because Vingle asked if he was aware of any, I do not know.  I find it hard to believe based on what he said that 1. he is hinting that there will be renegotiation and 2. that he is referring to one in his next sentence when noting the guarantee of no lower revenues.

Taking Hamrick at his word, he is saying that our next contract, after the current solid 3 years he refers to, is guaranteed to be no less than the current one or the schools that have left will be obligated to pay CUSA the difference.

The entire $6.63M may have been referred to as an Exit Fee, but it has been reported that there is a contractual base $500k then a poison pill component which, if I recall correctly, equals something like each school's annual share of the TV contract times 5 years.  I am sure the detail is out there, but Landon, Bogaczyk, CBS and others have all reported the $6.63M number so I assume it has been well researched.

I wonder why Dingle didn't interview sturt?

[_sturt_]

Never indicated any such thing.  Simply assumed that wasn't the direction of the questioning based on the answer.

Hold up.

You mean, you weren't there, you haven't read the transcript and you don't actually know that Hamrick was not...

"...asked to outline all the details of the buyouts and what MU is expected to get"...? ? ?

You mean, you assumed that the answer would have to be more extensive than that since you assumed that was not the question that was asked?

So, in actuality, you're confessing that it *could have* been that he *was* asked to outline the details, and that... face value... that what Hamrick told Vingle could pretty much capture the essence of *all* of the details...? ? ? But given the "direction" you presumed, that that's not plausible.

Oh... and... so YOU are one who "tends to take things at face value, not twist words and read between the lines."

Really.

Glad you set us all straight on that.

And so, naturally, we all should take the rest of your assumptions to be equally unbiased and with honest attempt at balance.

Right.

Well, hope you'll pardon me if I go on and just try to present all sides as possibilities, and leave you to your self-concept as someone who never makes rash assumptions, never assumes there's more than what was actually stated (... even though, that's precisely what you just did).

[IM4DHERD]

Wow, just...

I cannot be more clear in what I say...There is no "In actuality, you're confessing"...Read what I say and take it for what it is worth.

I am not basing my understanding of the buyout situation solely on one sentence in this article.  Hamrick says there is a $500k buyout - true.  Also, as has been widely reported, that there is an additional $6.13M each school will have to pay.

You may be angry because you were shown to be wrong, but in this case I would hope to think you would be happy to hear it.  Based simlply on all the information available, with none of my own assumptions, we should expect almost $13M dollars and a guarantee of the at least the same revenue when the next TV deal is negotiated in 3 years.  There is no evidence anywhere to the contrary of these reported facts.  I would allow that the last issue may be misinterpreted, i.e. the guarantee of the next contract portion, but only because this is the first I have heard of it.

[backontrack]

When the dictionary defines the phrase "must get in the final word", _sturt's_picture is next to said definition...

[IM4DHERD]

To directly answer the insinuation, I assume that Mitch Vingle did not directly ask Mike Hamrick for all the detail on the buyout situation based on his answer not including all the detail that has been reported by others, specifically the additional $6.13M over the $500k contractual buyout.  I further assume that this reported $6.13M is not what is being referred to in the context of the next contract guarantee since there would be no way to put a monetary value on that yet since that next contract has not been negotiated.

Straight and to the point.  If anyone has any questions, please let me know.

[IM4DHERD]

From the Orlando Sentinel:

If the Knights ultimately decide to join the Big East, Conference USA officials told the Sentinel that UCF would have to pay an exit fee of about $7 million. Schools leaving C-USA must pay their annual share of television revenue under dual contracts with Fox Sports Network and CBS Sports for five years and an additional one-time $500,000 fee.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2011-10-11/sports/os-ucf-big-east-news-1012-20111011_1_conference-usa-ucf-leaders-bowl-championship-series-conference

[_sturt_]

Wow, just...

I cannot be more clear in what I say...There is no "In actuality, you're confessing"...Read what I say and take it for what it is worth.

I am not basing my understanding of the buyout situation solely on one sentence in this article.  Hamrick says there is a $500k buyout - true.  Also, as has been widely reported, that there is an additional $6.13M each school will have to pay.

You may be angry because you were shown to be wrong, but in this case I would hope to think you would be happy to hear it.  Based simlply on all the information available, with none of my own assumptions, we should expect almost $13M dollars and a guarantee of the at least the same revenue when the next TV deal is negotiated in 3 years.  There is no evidence anywhere to the contrary of these reported facts.  I would allow that the last issue may be misinterpreted, i.e. the guarantee of the next contract portion, but only because this is the first I have heard of it.

Anger?

hehe... you gotta be kidding.

You painted yourself as this noble character who only takes things for "face value" and resists "twisting words."

Then, s'helpme, oblivious to the contradiction, you go on to read into Hamrick's response that Vingle must not have asked the question *you* assume Hamrick was answering.

And seems you *still* don't get it.

You're tying yourself up in verbal knots to make this thing come out the way you've interpreted it. I'm enjoying the entertainment, actually.

Make no mistake... you shouldn't because this will be the third time I've said it... I'd love to learn that your assumptions are correct and that we're getting millions--that this money is money we otherwise would not have had, as opposed to it being the same money we would have had anyhow, just that not all of it is coming from Fox and CBS.

But your resistance to consider any interpretation of Hamrick's words that doesn't comply with the assumptions you've chosen, and your insistence that you understand him perfectly... good luck with that... because... "face value"... there is a discrepancy between what he said and t what you interpreted him to say... by your own admission/confession, there are details he necessarily must have left out, but that by your ability to read between the lines, you are persuaded that he meant what you think he meant... and again, not saying you're necessarily wrong... but you very well might be after we've had a chance to get some clarification.

And if, as it seems, anything in the so-called exit fee other than the $500K isn't new money... if we were going to receive it anyhow... that's downright depressing.

[_sturt_]

From the Orlando Sentinel:

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2011-10-11/sports/os-ucf-big-east-news-1012-20111011_1_conference-usa-ucf-leaders-bowl-championship-series-conference

If this October 2011 report is relevant to what Hamrick just said ~18 months later... not dismissing that possibility... you seem to avoid the troubling point here that I just stated... this is not new money, but rather money that we already had expected... it's just that instead of it coming from Fox and CBS, the defectors are paying it.

So, the otherwise-unbudgeted "bonus" here actually amounts to the $500K x 7 = $3.5 mil the defectors are paying, and the $2 mil x 9 = 18 mil that the newbies are paying... that's $21.5 mil distributed among 5 schools... just over $4 million per school... except that the newbies' payments might not be direct cash payments.

[IM4DHERD]

"Our TV package is solid for the next three years," Hamrick countered. "As far as I know renegotiations aren't scheduled. Our TV partners like the new Conference USA teams and markets.

I take this to mean that, as far as Hamrick knows and he should know better than I, our TV package is solid for the next three years and that as far as he knows, there is no renegotiation scheduled.  I do assume this means as far as he knows there has not been mention of renegotiation either.  I further take this to say that he has been informed that the CUSA Media partners are happy with the new teams and markets and therefore would have no reason for renegotiation.

"Also, the exit fee for the [departing] schools is a flat $500,000. But the schools must also pay the difference if the next contract is less than the current one. I'd be surprised if the next contract is less, but if it is the former schools have to collectively make up the difference."

I take this to mean that the exit fee for departing schools is a flat $500k, as reported elsewhere.  I assume from the answer that Vingle's question was not to the effect of "Tell me the detail of all the various components of the buyouts due from teams leaving CUSA" simply because Mike did not include all that detail.  I am pleasantly surprised to hear of the next contract guarantee and look forward to learning more about it when the time come which will be in 3 years according to the first quote.

Cannot be any more clear.  You seem obsessed with the thought that I think I know what Vingle asked specifically.  Not sure why it would matter.  I clearly state that my assumption is that Mike left out the detail of the other $6.13M because he was not asked about it.  I would further assume that if each of the other 4 teams due almost $13M each were to find out that number dropped so severely, it would have been reported somewhere.

[IM4DHERD]

If this October 2011 report is relevant to what Hamrick just said ~18 months later... not dismissing that possibility... you seem to avoid the troubling point here that I just stated... this is not new money, but rather money that we already had expected... it's just that instead of it coming from Fox and CBS, the defectors are paying it.

So, the otherwise-unbudgeted "bonus" here actually amounts to the $500K x 7 = $3.5 mil the defectors are paying, and the $2 mil x 9 = 18 mil that the newbies are paying... that's $21.5 mil distributed among 5 schools... just over $4 million per school... except that the newbies' payments might not be direct cash payments.

You read it wrong...It has been reported that each school that leaves will owe $6.13M in TV revenue poison pill payout in addition to the $500k contractual buyout. What I outlined is what has been reported and no one had reported anything to the contrary.  As I read it, Hamrick simply adds a new twist that in addition to the above, the defecting schools also will have to pony up any shortage in our next TV contract, due it 3 years and no one has said there is any renegotiation scheduled or even hinted at.

Feel free to twist it any way you want...These are the facts as we know them.  Good night and have a great Easter!

[whf]

Really don't even know why I am posting here..........but in the final analysis I wish those of you who have easily conceded to these changes and actually believe we will be better off and aren't going backward would send me some of your ability to accept it so easily.  I have been contributing and fighting for this university since I got out of the service in the summer of 1970 and this is the first time we have moved backwards; and it hurts like heck.  We got left behind..period. I need some inspiration to accept it. The concept that we can do nothing just doesn't fit my style. Trying to buy into the fact that the future conference members are better than those who left is absurd to me.  We fought like crazy to get into a conference with them, and now it seems like not many care that they are leaving us behind.

Anyway, if there is a pill you are taking that makes all this OK and painless, let me know what it is and how to get a prescription for it. I'd appreciate the help.

[BHFIOHIO]

Well, here is a repeat question. After the 1999 season were you not interested because three or four of the wins were bottom feeder MAC? Truth now. I would bet if we go undefeated next yr the N Texas game wont diminish your enjoyment. Fess up. It could be the very same thing. AND the way we have played for 8 yrs we shouldnt look down our noses at anyone. And finally we have dominated Tulane but they got a bid and we didnt. Its pure whine to keep on with this crap. Just win baby. Whats so hard to understand? I just dont getit.

[luvherd]

You think anyone cares what conference Wichita St is in?

[rvntx]

When the current contact expires in 3 years!!!!!!!

[IM4DHERD]

It is what it is.  I doubt that many wouldn't rather be in with USF, Cincy, Temple, ECU, UCF, Houston, etc. but we didn't even get a sniff.  I asked Hamrick to his face and he said he had been in touch with he BE since the start and the comment that hurt most of all was that we don't even have a hotel suitable to house visiting teams.

Choices are to be angry, in dispair, unable to accept it, or to embrace what is good about the current situation.  Looking to make an extra $13M (baseball stadium) out of the deal,  trips to Charlotte, Norfolk, Miami, Dallas, Nashville, etc.  Better basketball league than we have ever been in.  Frankly, as sad as it might be, a football league where we can dominate an hopefully become relevant nationally again?  Your choice.

[lexkyherdfan]

Really don't even know why I am posting here..........but in the final analysis I wish those of you who have easily conceded to these changes and actually believe we will be better off and aren't going backward would send me some of your ability to accept it so easily.  I have been contributing and fighting for this university since I got out of the service in the summer of 1970 and this is the first time we have moved backwards; and it hurts like heck.  We got left behind..period. I need some inspiration to accept it. The concept that we can do nothing just doesn't fit my style. Trying to buy into the fact that the future conference members are better than those who left is absurd to me.  We fought like crazy to get into a conference with them, and now it seems like not many care that they are leaving us behind.

Anyway, if there is a pill you are taking that makes all this OK and painless, let me know what it is and how to get a prescription for it. I'd appreciate the help.

No pill from me. I just know and understand that life I what it is. I can control what Conference Marshall is. If the Old BE doesn't want us then Oh Well. I can still enjoy games. All we have to do is win. Life is too short to worry to death about getting left behind. We can still achieve all of our goals and have fun.  We can have a bunch of fun.

[_sturt_]

I take this to mean that, as far as Hamrick knows and he should know better than I, our TV package is solid for the next three years and that as far as he knows, there is no renegotiation scheduled.  I do assume this means as far as he knows there has not been mention of renegotiation either.  I further take this to say that he has been informed that the CUSA Media partners are happy with the new teams and markets and therefore would have no reason for renegotiation.

I take this to mean that the exit fee for departing schools is a flat $500k, as reported elsewhere.  I assume from the answer that Vingle's question was not to the effect of "Tell me the detail of all the various components of the buyouts due from teams leaving CUSA" simply because Mike did not include all that detail.  I am pleasantly surprised to hear of the next contract guarantee and look forward to learning more about it when the time come which will be in 3 years according to the first quote.

Cannot be any more clear.  You seem obsessed with the thought that I think I know what Vingle asked specifically.  Not sure why it would matter.  I clearly state that my assumption is that Mike left out the detail of the other $6.13M because he was not asked about it.  I would further assume that if each of the other 4 teams due almost $13M each were to find out that number dropped so severely, it would have been reported somewhere.

Knots.

[MarshallSteve]

From what I understand, each school that left for the "American 12" is contractually obligated to pay their annual share of TV revenue for the remainder of the existing CUSA TV contract. Tack on the $500,000 fee and that totals the 6-6.5 million that is being quoted by commissioner Banowsky.

[_sturt_]

It is what it is.  I doubt that many wouldn't rather be in with USF, Cincy, Temple, ECU, UCF, Houston, etc. but we didn't even get a sniff.  I asked Hamrick to his face and he said he had been in touch with he BE since the start and the comment that hurt most of all was that we don't even have a hotel suitable to house visiting teams.

Choices are to be angry, in dispair, unable to accept it, or to embrace what is good about the current situation.  Looking to make an extra $13M (baseball stadium) out of the deal,  trips to Charlotte, Norfolk, Miami, Dallas, Nashville, etc.  Better basketball league than we have ever been in.  Frankly, as sad as it might be, a football league where we can dominate an hopefully become relevant nationally again?  Your choice.

Premature. It doesn't have to be over. But you and your friends are making it so easy on your good friend Mr. Hamrick and his boss.