Topic: ESPN U and ESPN Classic

[dshoe]

anyone catch ESPN U's launch last night?  I'ts going to catch on fast I think..............how about the CIAA tourney on ESPN Classic as Classic moves toward more live events............

[2001grad]

Dan,

I did.  It looked pretty neat..  I've watched a few games on ESPN Classic this season from time to time.  Not so sure of the whole retro thing, I think I'd just assume see the game the way it is now, but I understand why its like it is.  ESPNU looks okay..  I'll order the sports pack in about a month when baseball season starts, so I'll watch ESPNU some I'm sure but probably not until football season for the most part..  I did like the whole concert thing for the opening though, that was a nice touch!!!

[biggreenthunder]

Unless they have CUSA stuff, I doubt I watch it.  Sorry.

[marshallisqbu]

espn classic doing live things seems a bit awkward IMO.  I haven't seen espnu, b/c I don't know where to look for it.

[dshoe]

the retro look is probably gone.........the CIAA tournament was done with normal gfx and instead looked at the historical perspective of the conference......did finals tonight on ESPN2

as for CUSA games on ESPNU, you won't see any, not our decision, but theirs,  but then that's business.  It will certainly be interesting to see what happens there.

As to where to find it, DTV and most Adelphia systems are carrying or will be soon.  Initially it will be tough to get, but look for it to grow rapidly.  Great nework concept, will differ from CSTV in that it will look and feel just like ESPN and ESPN2..........

[coryherdman69]

will any of our games be on espn

[Thundering Lydia]

Great nework concept, will differ from CSTV in that it will look and feel just like ESPN and ESPN2..........

Wow, you mean MORE powder-puffs like Trev Alberts?  Lord, I hope not.   :lol:

[biggreenthunder]

the retro look is probably gone.........the CIAA tournament was done with normal gfx and instead looked at the historical perspective of the conference......did finals tonight on ESPN2

as for CUSA games on ESPNU, you won't see any, not our decision, but theirs,  but then that's business.  It will certainly be interesting to see what happens there.

As to where to find it, DTV and most Adelphia systems are carrying or will be soon.  Initially it will be tough to get, but look for it to grow rapidly.  Great nework concept, will differ from CSTV in that it will look and feel just like ESPN and ESPN2..........

If it looks and feels like ESPN and ESPN2, why do we need it?  I know you're not crazy about CSTV, but I'm hoping they wipe ESPNU out.  Nothing against you Dshoe.  As you said; it's just business.

[biggreenthunder]

Looks like ESPNU is part of the sports package on DirecTV; i.e. the same package that CSTV currently falls under.  Looks like just as many eyes on satellite will see CSTV and ESPNU.

[dshoe]

going to be interesting to see if both ESPNU and CSTV can survive.........while they will have somewhat different programming philosophies, ultimately they have similar targets..........CSTV has the advantage of being into the market first, but ESPNU has the clear edge in properties and brand and I'll be surprised if it doesn't overtake CSTV in distribution quickly.......ESPNU launched with 3.5 million homes and will add more quickly while CSTV still struggles to get beyond the 7-9 million actual homes that they have...........I know there are claims of up to 65 million, but the reality is that they are including the full distribution of Comcast and Time Warner even though they are actually on very few of those systems

Certainly MU fans are hoping CSTV can grow into a national challenger to ESPN, but it will be a very difficult and expensive road.......and for everyone who has been comparing them to the early days of ESPN or ESPN2 don't understand the concept of "bandwith" and the challenges presented by the explosion of cable networks..........

I am beginning to find it interesting and curious the number of "posters" who all of the sudden are beginning to see ESPN as the enemy?  how much of MU's reputation has been built on ESPN's networks?  I guess memories are short and loyalties are transient.................at this point MU football has only one game on "national tv" next year and the Marshall Network will no longer be affiliated with ESPN or ESPN+ or GamePlan/FullCourt.

I've been involved with MU television for over 20 years, at one point my company owned their rights and started the MU network as it exists today.  When the new stadium opened, it was my company that put MU games on satellite and cleared the old SportSouth and KBL networks, prior to that I did the MU games for public TV and took them to local stations WVAH, WSAZ, WOWK and WCHS, seems like only yesterday.........I for one, am sorry to see that association end, but sadly, other than occassional national games on ESPN and occasional road games, we'll have little access to the MU programs, even the Kansas State game, MU's best home game ever will likely not be nationally televised, unless you define CSTV as national.........

[Thundering Lydia]

MU's best home game ever will likely not be nationally televised, unless you define CSTV as national.........

I thought I read in the Herd Insider that the K-State game was slated for either ESPN or ESPN2.

Of course, that's the Herd "Insider" . . . the same publication that said, "For once and for all, Stan Hill does NOT have a torn ACL."  :lol:

[Thundering Lydia]

I am beginning to find it interesting and curious the number of "posters" who all of the sudden are beginning to see ESPN as the enemy?  

I think there are relatively few who actually believe that, Dan.  I, for one, LOVE ESPN.  I just can't stand Trev Alberts.  That's my one mission in life: to see him bagging groceries or pushing a cart full of crumpled aluminum cans.   :lol:

[SC Thunder]

Even if CSTV lasts for a few years, I'd be surprised if the quality is anything better than the regional Fox stations.  If you have a problem with an analyst or two on ESPN, check out the jokers on Fox Sports net.

As for ESPN, ESPN2, and Gameplan; no one who follows Marshall can seriously question what these networks have done for us over the last few years.  Give me a break.

[GreenSteve]

going to be interesting to see if both ESPNU and CSTV can survive.........

I'm sure ESPNU will survive...I am just wondering about CSTV's partnership(s). They've hooked up with CBSSportsline for some of the Web distribution of the NCAA tournament  games. I wonder if Viacom would be interested in a property like that. With Viacom dollars behind CSTV, they could become formidable.

That still doesn't solve the problem of getting on local cable. NAd it seems to me that's the big issue for CSTV.

GS.

[dshoe]

going to be interesting to see if both ESPNU and CSTV can survive.........

That still doesn't solve the problem of getting on local cable. NAd it seems to me that's the big issue for CSTV.

GS.

That's the big issue for both!!!!

[DJdaHERDfan]

ESPNU is nothing more than ESPN3.
It will eventually carry everything just as the other two do.

Remember when ESPN2 came out it was said to be for more extreme sports watchers. Well, then ESPN2 started getting all college football games.

I feel ok about CSTV deal for MU.

But I would have been ecstatic had MU signed a similar deal with upstart ESPNU.

CSTV needs a big anchor behind them similar to the way ABC is behind ESPN.
Maybe CBS? Maybe NBC?
They need someone big to help get them in the door of every cable network.

[herdman]

I certainly don't view ESPN as the enemy. However, I think they(you all) need some competition. That will be good for you and the consumer. It will make the product better and will give the consumer more access to sports.  ESPN has disapointed me somewhat with the movies, poker, and original programming.  I guess the NHL strike put you in somewhat of a bind.  

As for MU if the CSTV thing works out it may be good for schools like MU It will give them access to another network and perhaps more control of when their games are shown. I don't know the business, but it would seem that way.  I am sure ESPN would rather have a prime time game on Saturday night of a bigger conference matchup. Maybe CSTV is a nice tool for schools in conferences like CUSA.  The main thing is they've got to get it on cable, I agree.  Dish serves a certain need, but I am not switching everything to a dish to get CSTV.

[Blade]

I think most Herd fans feel a little hurt about the ESPN response to the new conference and Marshall's limited allegiance with them in the near future.

I know that I don't want to hear how our new conference affiliation is not worth much more to ESPN than the MAC or WAC, regardless how the numbers pound out.  For that very reason, I want to defend and support a media outlet that does make me feel valued and welcome.  It's only human nature.

From a business standpoint, ESPN was not willing to make the commitment to CUSA that the conference needed, where as CSTV was elated to get us as part of their package.  One man's junk is another man's treasure.  

So, just as you feel ESPN is less appreciated by Marshall fans, Marshall fans feel less appreciated by ESPN.

[biggreenthunder]

I think most Herd fans feel a little hurt about the ESPN response to the new conference and Marshall's limited allegiance with them in the near future.

I know that I don't want to hear how our new conference affiliation is not worth much more to ESPN than the MAC or WAC, regardless how the numbers pound out.  For that very reason, I want to defend and support a media outlet that does make me feel valued and welcome.  It's only human nature.

From a business standpoint, ESPN was not willing to make the commitment to CUSA that the conference needed, where as CSTV was elated to get us as part of their package.  One man's junk is another man's treasure.  

So, just as you feel ESPN is less appreciated by Marshall fans, Marshall fans feel less appreciated by ESPN.

Excellent point blade.  My thoughts exactly.  Part of Marshall and CUSA's success depends on CSTV doing well.  I'd prefer not to read posts that belittle that station or how a rival is going to surpass them in no time.  I'm rooting for Dshoe to do well in his job and become the President of ESPN.  But I'm hoping that ESPNU falls flat on it's face.

[dshoe]

I think most Herd fans feel a little hurt about the ESPN response to the new conference and Marshall's limited allegiance with them in the near future.

I know that I don't want to hear how our new conference affiliation is not worth much more to ESPN than the MAC or WAC, regardless how the numbers pound out.  For that very reason, I want to defend and support a media outlet that does make me feel valued and welcome.  It's only human nature.

From a business standpoint, ESPN was not willing to make the commitment to CUSA that the conference needed, where as CSTV was elated to get us as part of their package.  One man's junk is another man's treasure.  

So, just as you feel ESPN is less appreciated by Marshall fans, Marshall fans feel less appreciated by ESPN.

Reading this it is clear that you didn't really follow the reports in various newspapers regarding the ESPN and CSTV negotiations with CUSA.......ESPN valued the league in double digit millions for the remainder of the deal........CSTV simply needed the property more, thus the inflated value placed on it by them.........CUSA's risk whether on not CSTV "makes" it.........they gave up a great deal to get additional dollars............good move or bad, only time will tell...........as to where ESPN valued CUSA v. WAC and MAC, look at the numbers, I guess it's how you define not "much more", you obviously haven't made the comparisons.

Your last statement simply makes no sense:  "So, just as you feel ESPN is less appreciated by Marshall fans, Marshall fans feel less appreciated by ESPN"  I certainly don't feel less appreciated, and MU fans shouldn't feel less appreciated by ESPN.........contractually we just won't have the acces to MU that we've had in the past.........not our decision, we stepped up big in the process........CUSA made the decision, they'll be the ones to determine whether or not it was a good decision........6 years down the road...........if CSTV grows into a viable force in the industry, it will have been brilliant, if they fail or go out of business, the decision will have been a disaster..........chances are the reality will be somewhere in between.

Business is business............relationships on the other hand, should be deep enough to last.

[biggreenthunder]

Your last statement simply makes no sense: "So, just as you feel ESPN is less appreciated by Marshall fans, Marshall fans feel less appreciated by ESPN" I certainly don't feel less appreciated, and MU fans shouldn't feel less appreciated by ESPN.........

The fact that his statement makes no sense to you shows the disconnect ESPN has had with fans from conferences that don't get the lion's share of exposure or money.  It's real simple.  These schools have seen less and less action on Saturday's for the last few years.  Now they aren't even getting Thursdays anymore as the ACC, Big East, and others now monopolize that time.  Now for schools to get games on TV, they have to play on Tues or Wed.  You look at it that CSTV inflated the numbers.  I see it that ESPN undervalued CUSA.  CSTV currently gets the same exposure that ESPNU gets yet CSTV will give CUSA games on Saturday.

Of course you don't feel less appreciated.  You work for ESPN.  I feel that smaller schools ARE less appreciated in that marquee matchups by smaller schools are regulated to .... oh, you know what, forget it.  Apparently it's not going to make any sense to you.

[Blade]

Reading this it is clear that you didn't really follow the reports in various newspapers regarding the ESPN and CSTV negotiations with CUSA.......ESPN valued the league in double digit millions for the remainder of the deal........

I won't deny that you are closer to the situation than any on this board.  That is why I took your word on the "devaluation" of the conference when you tried to warn Herd fans that the ESPN deal would be considerably lower than the deal prior to expansion.  If this did not come to pass and ESPN offered the same deal, then why was there a negotiation?  Shouldn't ESPN have just done a "business as usual" and kept the 8-year contract in place?  I would have, had I no intention of devaluing the contract.

CSTV simply needed the property more, thus the inflated value placed on it by them.........CUSA's risk whether on not CSTV "makes" it.........they gave up a great deal to get additional dollars............good move or bad, only time will tell...........

Again, you know the business much better than I, but ESPN evidently devalued the CUSA inventory or they would not have asked to renegotiate the contract.  

As for "inflated" value, it's a matter of perception.  I sold Yahoo stock when I felt it was overvalued and lost an opportunity to make a heck of a lot of money.

as to where ESPN valued CUSA v. WAC and MAC, look at the numbers, I guess it's how you define not "much more", you obviously haven't made the comparisons.

I'll admit that was a bit over the top.  Don't those two conferences pay you(ESPN) to show them?

Your last statement simply makes no sense: "So, just as you feel ESPN is less appreciated by Marshall fans, Marshall fans feel less appreciated by ESPN" I certainly don't feel less appreciated, and MU fans shouldn't feel less appreciated by ESPN.........contractually we just won't have the acces to MU that we've had in the past.........not our decision, we stepped up big in the process........CUSA made the decision, they'll be the ones to determine whether or not it was a good decision........6 years down the road...........if CSTV grows into a viable force in the industry, it will have been brilliant, if they fail or go out of business, the decision will have been a disaster..........chances are the reality will be somewhere in between.

Sorry if I read a little sensitivity in your post.  I think the statement:

am beginning to find it interesting and curious the number of "posters" who all of the sudden are beginning to see ESPN as the enemy? how much of MU's reputation has been built on ESPN's networks? I guess memories are short and loyalties are transient

I sensed that you were frustrated with the reactions of some Herd fans.

I just relayed my honest feelings about the whole mess.  Perception or not, whether it makes sense or not, it's how I feel.  CSTV took a chance on CUSA and Marshall.  I look at them the same as I look at myself.  I took a chance on Marshall as well.  I was pleasantly surprised.  I hope CSTV is as well.

 

Business is business............relationships on the other hand, should be deep enough to last.

I don't think anyone, even someone as illogical as myself, would want to bite the hand that fed us for so long.  I still see a long term relationship between ESPN and Marshall.  I just hope we can develop a new friendship and am willing to give them the same benefit of doubt.  You shouldn't look at this as an attack on you or ESPN.  jmo.

[dshoe]

YOUR QUOTE:

"The fact that his statement makes no sense to you shows the disconnect ESPN has had with fans from conferences that don't get the lion's share of exposure or money. It's real simple. These schools have seen less and less action on Saturday's for the last few years. Now they aren't even getting Thursdays anymore as the ACC, Big East, and others now monopolize that time. Now for schools to get games on TV, they have to play on Tues or Wed. You look at it that CSTV inflated the numbers. I see it that ESPN undervalued CUSA. CSTV currently gets the same exposure that ESPNU gets yet CSTV will give CUSA games on Saturday.

Of course you don't feel less appreciated. You work for ESPN. I feel that smaller schools ARE less appreciated in that marquee matchups by smaller schools are regulated to .... oh, you know what, forget it. Apparently it's not going to make any sense to you."

honest discussion here based on business principles........do you really think from a ratings standpoint and from an  advertiser value standpoint that your above arguement makes logical sense?   My role at ESPN for the most part is dealing with the conferences and schools that you are interesed in defending.....so I know well how they feel.....I've been working toward getting rights fees up and exposures up for years....sith some real  success, I might add.........and NO neither the WAC nor the MAC nor does the Sun Belt for that matter.....each league gets 6 and 7 figure rights fees ......

In the end the company has a fiduciary responsibility to it's stockholders to value the stock..........ultimately every rights negotiation is based on that premise..........we have a great idea of the actual revenue value of a telecast and caluclate based on that............Give me, if you would, the business arguement for making more Saturday windows available to the teams and conferences you mention.      

By the way, ESPNU will do just that, look for the afternoon and evening windows on Saturday to be Sun Belt, MAC and WAC football...........

CUSA  would have been a centerpiece of ESPNU had the rights negotiations gone differently.......but they didn't

As for the "disconnect".....do you really think there is anyone at ESPN who doesn't understand the fan reaction and empathise with the fans of the conferenes and schools you are talking about?  That's a HUGE part of the reason that ESPNU was launched.


You need to take the emotion out of the arguement and separate the business from the feelings..............

In the final analysis, though, the very thing that brings MWC and CUSA to CSTV could also be what puts CSTV under it's greatest strain........the financial pressure of the rights fee payments and the costs of producing the huge number of games promised will be difficult for them to manage...........unless of course they can get the distribution and sell the advertising.............loyal fans like you will be incredibly important to their business model, that is what they are banking on.

[Thundering Lydia]

     

By the way, ESPNU will do just that, look for the afternoon and evening windows on Saturday to be Sun Belt, MAC and WAC football...........

CUSA  would have been a centerpiece of ESPNU had the rights negotiations gone differently.......

I don't want to put words in your mouth, Dan, but this reads to me like this: "ESPN and ESPN2 will showcase the BCS, while ESPNU will allow windows on Saturday for the (dreaded term here) non-BCS teams."

I'm not one of the ESPN bashers, here, by the way.  ESPN has been VERY GOOD to the Herd.  Still, I'm wondering if the C-USA/ESPN/CSTV dealings were affected by the difference between value and perceived value.

I, for one, believe that you have to sell from strength; that if you devalue your own product, then why would anyone else inflate the value for you?  As such, if ESPN "valued" C-USA as "second-tier" programming (verses the value of other programming attached to other leagues), then that's a perception that should be avoided, if possible.

In other words, might C-USA have partnered up with CSTV not just because of dollars, but because CSTV attempts to lend a higher "perceived value" to the league, (in other words, promoting them as something other than a "non-bcs" league)?

[DJdaHERDfan]

By the way, ESPNU will do just that, look for the afternoon and evening windows on Saturday to be Sun Belt, MAC and WAC football...........

Like I said earlier, no matter what they call it, it will be showing college football as well. It is nothing more than ESPN3.

And, imo, ESPN3 will then just add another Big Time Conference to showcase their games on Saturday afternoons as well. Say for example, the new Big East.
Just as ESPN and ESPN2 show Big Ten games at the same time. Maybe, so to will ABC and ESPN3.

Once again, the little guy gets nothing.

And for all of you CSTV lovers out there..................
If and when CSTV gets real big, and if the opportunity is there, they will drop us from the  saturday prime time spot for any of the BCS Conferences in a heart beat.
Nothing personal, just business.
That's why CUSA needs to prove that they can be a valuable asset for Saturday football. Just as CSTV needs to prove they belong as a major college sports network.
A perfect marriage based on "potential" for the time being.
And yes, only time will tell.