Topic: Doc Holliday

[whf]

I don't take schedule too much into my opinion about giving him a raise and contract extension because it isn't going to get any stiffer in the near future.  He will be expected to beat the teams on the schedule going forward, no matter who they are.  This year a few mistakes cost us a 11 - 0 standing right now, and yes, a few breaks overcame those to get us to 8 - 3.  That is what the game is about.

Additionally, the extension means nothing as IMHO the people who will want Doc if we win 11 next year aren't going to be worrying about the minimal (Yes minimal for those schools) buyout. 

So my support for a raise and extension it to keep him interested in being here, not in our trying to tie him into staying here.

[murox]

1. Nothing has happened yet...for good or bad. Keep in mind, that the past is the best predictor of the future. We'll see.

2. Consistency has to be taken into consideration. 3 winning seasons in a row, I'd consider extensions. This will be a VERY bad football conference after this year. We're headed into years of CUSA being very weak.

3. Seriously, and without flame, it's beyond me, and I'll call out Wolfie here (because he really likes me), why John gets such a break after four years at or below .500. I'd love to hear the explanation.

GS.

Why do you still post here? He "gets such a break" because "after four years" he has us finally playing for a championship again. Go back to the CUSA board and talk %^&* about the Herd.

[extragreen]

Why do you still post here? He "gets such a break" because "after four years" he has us finally playing for a championship again. Go back to the CUSA board and talk %^&* about the Herd.

Didn't you advocate getting rid of Herrion a few days ago? He's had twice as many winning seasons as our football coach in the same number of years.

[murox]

Didn't you advocate getting rid of Herrion a few days ago? He's had twice as many winning seasons as our football coach in the same number of years.

Fortunately, since I actually attend every football and basketball game in person, I am able to differentiate between building a program (while keeping kids out of trouble and graduating them) and running a program in the ground (while running off your best player and keeping a juco transfer who acts even worse). Not to mention the difference in demeanor. Herrion acts like a child on the sideline, while Doc is calm and collected.

[FlyHawk98]

Didn't you advocate getting rid of Herrion a few days ago? He's had twice as many winning seasons as our football coach in the same number of years.

Herrion took over a PROGRAM on the rise, Doc took over a program that was....well we'll just say it was NOT on the rise but it is now.

[2xBison]

Doc took over a bowl winning team and gutted it then underachieved for four years.

Doc wins cusa champ he is off hot seat nothing more

[2xBison]

I hv doc and Herrion in similar positions time to produce or move on

Herrion is in the worse spot of the two with me

[elginherd]

Herrion took over a PROGRAM on the rise, Doc took over a program that was....well we'll just say it was NOT on the rise but it is now.

That is a very good point. However, I still think that the FB program is one year late in its development. But it appears from the outside as if Coach Holliday is building an organization that will consistently win even if it doesn't win at the level we'd want because of his game-management of close games.

The BB team...well it might be only one or two steps from being a landfill fire. It appears like Herrion is constantly trying to plug leaks rather than build a program.

[2xBison]

The significant weakening of schedule can't be ignored

[BHFIOHIO]

If Doc had to do it all he would be about like Herrion but he has Heater and Legg. Herrion has no help and it shows big time. Much worse hire than Doc. Not even close.

[The E-Man]

If Doc had to do it all he would be about like Herrion but he has Heater and Legg. Herrion has no help and it shows big time. Much worse hire than Doc. Not even close.

Not to sound like a jerk, but doesn't Herrion have asst coaches to?

[BHFIOHIO]

I figure Herrion makes all decisions about what O or what D and what players. I think it is diff for FB but I may be wrong. I figure the O co-ord calls the plays etc...the D co-ord decides what D and when to blitz etc. I don't think BB and FB are the same when it comes to HC responsibility. I don't figure Doc has been keeping Butler out..but rather the RB coach or Heater is the one calling those shots. But I admit it is a guess on my part.

[Herdrulz29]

Buyntelos, you are out of your damn mind, sorry but some of the rest of you are too. You all do realize we should not have had a losing season at all in any of these years with Doc? He has lost 23 games, 15-18 of them have been because he doesn't know how to coach, He cost us the game we all wanted against wvu, The 3 losses this year are on him. 

About Ucf being up with Acc, yea beating memphis and temple late in the 4th qt show how good they really are lol. They are just lucky the aac has no championship game and could lose to usf and smu anyways.

Back to The Herd, Looks like to me we have been playing much better because Doc smartened up and asked Pruett to talk to our team which he did again yesterday, Doc is an awesome recruiter but will never be a head coach, he has proved that time after time with his decisions. Just like with Butler who should be our every down back. Our talent has won the games not our coaching!

[extragreen]

Fortunately, since I actually attend every football and basketball game in person, I am able to differentiate between building a program (while keeping kids out of trouble and graduating them) and running a program in the ground (while running off your best player and keeping a juco transfer who acts even worse). Not to mention the difference in demeanor. Herrion acts like a child on the sideline, while Doc is calm and collected.

Unfortunately, everything you said is irrelevant, and Herrion STILL has twice the number of winning seasons as Doc in the same number of years.

[jstherd]

On the flip side, Quick, we are less than 14 points from being 11-0 You see what you want to see and my glass is half full, yours? ............

[extragreen]

We were 15 points from being 10-3 in 2009. Your cup half full after that season?

[W0lfman]

Doc took over a bowl winning team and gutted it then underachieved for four years.

Doc wins cusa champ he is off hot seat nothing more

I thought you said 8 or the gate?  He has done that and if not for two games where our players couldnt hold on to the ball we'd be sitting at 10 wins.

[HERDFAN1999]

Doc has made some mistakes this year.  There is no doubt that turnovers cost us a couple of games but we should not be in that position.  As the head coach, that falls on him.  With that said, our schedule has allowed us to rebound and we are having a decent season and still in the hunt for the conference championship going into our last game.  It has been a long time since we have said that and it feels good.  Concerning his contract, I am a little weary about MU making huge commitments for a long time on what we have seen so far.  I just don't want to get into a situation where we go crazy on an extension based on one year with a really weak schedule.  While I am happy we are in th hunt there is an arguement to be made that with our talent we have still under-achieved this year.  Next year's schedule is even weaker though so we may be in a spot where we have to take the plunge concerning his contract.

[QuickStrike]

On the flip side, Quick, we are less than 14 points from being 11-0 You see what you want to see and my glass is half full, yours? ............

Don't take it personal.  I'm just saying we are not 11-0.  We are 8-3 and damn lucky not to be 6-5.  Losses can be partially blamed on turnovers, but turnovers by the other teams results in our wins too.  Win or lose it is on the coach as his record.  In sticking with the OP....Doc's results thus far do not warrant a raise and/or contract extension.  If Doc can beat ECU, Rice and the Liberty Bowl opponent, then yes give him a raise & extension.  All this will be answered soon.   

[extragreen]

I thought you said 8 or the gate?  He has done that and if not for two games where our players couldnt hold on to the ball we'd be sitting at 10 wins.

There can be an 8 or the gate while still being on the hot seat. IMHO, we can't afford to let doc go with him having 8 wins, (he may get more than 8) and most of this discussion would be moot. But as I said before, 8 wins with this schedule does not show improvement in the PROGRAM, only improvement in record. I consider 9 wins improvement, any more than that is cherry on top.  

[carolinaherdfan]

1. Nothing has happened yet...for good or bad. Keep in mind, that the past is the best predictor of the future. We'll see.

2. Consistency has to be taken into consideration. 3 winning seasons in a row, I'd consider extensions. This will be a VERY bad football conference after this year. We're headed into years of CUSA being very weak.

3. Seriously, and without flame, it's beyond me, and I'll call out Wolfie here (because he really likes me), why John gets such a break after four years at or below .500. I'd love to hear the explanation.





GS.

I disagree. MT is better then Memphis. North Texas or UTSA is better then SMU or Houston. Not certain they couldn't give Texas a run for the buttermilk. As long as Petrino is at WKU they will be as formidable as any Tulane or UTEP. I just don't think the conference is going in any direction but up and tougher. UNCC. And ODU will take care of business in there own good time, but will field a very competitive program in the future.

[Herdmeister]

I disagree. MT is better then Memphis. North Texas or UTSA is better then SMU or Houston. Not certain they couldn't give Texas a run for the buttermilk. As long as Petrino is at WKU they will be as formidable as any Tulane or UTEP. I just don't think the conference is going in any direction but up and tougher. UNCC. And ODU will take care of business in there own good time, but will field a very competitive program in the future.

I totally agree with you. Football additions are a positive and basketball is MUCH improved, overall. Yes, losing Memphis hurts at the top but the basketball league will be tougher from top to bottom.

[lovetheherd2]

There can be an 8 or the gate while still being on the hot seat. IMHO, we can't afford to let doc go with him having 8 wins, (he may get more than 8) and most of this discussion would be moot. But as I said before, 8 wins with this schedule does not show improvement in the PROGRAM, only improvement in record. I consider 9 wins improvement, any more than that is cherry on top.  

I do not think extra negative read the post with Coach Bobby Pruett's urging every HERD Fan to get on board and support the effort to make Friday's game loud and proud.

Someone could make a case to compare his rants to the efforts to drop football way back when.

Most of us choose to support the HERD come heck or high water or not so extra.

[luvherd]

Extra is a troll. Convinced of it.

[extragreen]

I do not think extra negative read the post with Coach Bobby Pruett's urging every HERD Fan to get on board and support the effort to make Friday's game loud and proud.

Someone could make a case to compare his rants to the efforts to drop football way back when.

Most of us choose to support the HERD come heck or high water or not so extra.

How many times have you Pruett haters told me "Pruetts not the coach now"? All of a sudden he's "they guy" now. You guys make sure the next time you see him that you tell him what you've said about him on this board. I can hear your nads hit the floor.