Topic: Gazette: Mitch Vingle: NCAA movement a concern for Marshall

[biggreenarms]

In southern West Virginia, sports news of the last couple weeks has had a decidedly green and white slant.

WVU had wrapped up spring football. Marshall continued on, had a spring game and named a new basketball coach.

Hidden among the din, however, was a news story that can have quite an effect on MU. Also, it portends of a competitive divide between WVU and Marshall that will move from large to gaping.

The story from Indianapolis was of NCAA president Mark Emmert’s desire to fast-track upgrades for college athletes and create a divide between the five power conferences — including the one in which WVU resides — and the rest.

According to the story, a “57-page draft proposal would give schools in the five biggest conferences (ACC, Big 12, Big Ten, Pac-12 and SEC) more autonomy to implement changes deemed to be in the best interests of their athletes. The list could include adding the full cost-of-attendance in scholarships, expanded health insurance, additional help with academic and career counseling, and providing money for the families of athletes to travel to NCAA tournament events.”

Much of the push is because those within the power conferences were fed up with the NCAA anyway. Some of it undoubtedly came because of the possibility of athletes unionizing. (In case you missed it, though, the National Labor Relations Board announced it would review last month’s decision by a regional NLRB official which deemed athletes “employees.” Northwestern players voted on whether to form a union, but the votes were impounded pending the ruling, which could take several months.)

As you may know, an NCAA $2,000 stipend proposal was previously shelved amid opposition from full Division I membership.

All the rumblings begs one to ask what will happen to Marshall’s athletic program. Remember, Thundering Herd officials tried for years to get in the all-sports conference formerly known as the Big East. MU made the jump from Division I-AA to I-A in 1997 and was quite successful, finishing No. 10 in the Associated Press football poll in 1999, No. 21 in the coaches’ poll in 2001 and No. 19, again in the coaches’ poll, in 2002. Heck, MU might finish the upcoming season in the Top 25.

But can the Herd hang with the big dogs if (or, more probable, when) the power conferences approve Emmert’s 57-page proposal? Remember, we’re not simply talking about a $2,000-per-year stipend. We’re talking about full cost-of-attendance scholarships. We’re talking about expanded health insurance.

WVU should have no problem covering such costs. It is in the Big 12, which distributed $198 million to its members last spring. When the Mountaineers are full members of the league they’ll rake in over $25 million per year just from the league.

Marshall is in Conference USA. The league’s most recent TV deal was reportedly for $16 million. Total.

So I went to MU’s David Steele, the school’s associate athletic director for administration and business. I asked how the Herd can hang with the bigger schools.

“It certainly would be a challenge,” he said.

Steele pointed to the simple proposal of paying the stipends. MU gives out 200 full athletic scholarships. That’s an extra $400,000 right there. The school’s athletic budget is but $25 million.

“It’s certainly a challenge because of the resources,” Steele said. “There’s a vast difference in budgets between us and bigger conferences.”

It has to be difficult for those in Huntington because MU has always reached for the sky. The movements of late within college football, though, and the proposals out there certainly won’t give the school a boost. If anything, they will more limit Marshall’s future chances at success.

“You have to ask if we have time to adjust,” Steele said. “Also, all within our conference have to be on the same page. We’d have to phase things in.”

It’s certainly a concern for a proud program. Recruiting battles with schools from power conferences will be even tougher for MU to win, and already it’s brutally tough. That’s why Herd football coach Doc Holliday is a nice commodity.

“We just have to be very conscious of the needs of our student-athletes,” Steele said. “That’s our first commitment. It’s always first and foremost.

“If [expanded expenditures] is the direction we’re moving we’ll do all in our power to be competitive with those with similar resources.”

The gap between Marshall and those in power conferences, however, is moving from a chasm to a canyon. And when the “power” schools signed their long-term grant of TV rights to their conferences it didn’t help those in Huntington.

We’ll see if the little engine that always could still can in the future.

http://www.wvgazette.com/article/20140503/GZ02/140509766/1144

[ThunderValley]

Hate to say it but Mitch is right. It will be really tough for MU to meet some of the requirements.

But again, never say never

[HerdinKY]

The problem isn't w/ Vingleberry's words.  The problem is the joy it brings him to write them.  He needs to take a drive North to "The Hole" today & commune w/ Horseface, Horsewoman, & Huggy Bear.  If I had a subscription to that rag of a paper I'd cancel it.  All the great & wonderful things happening for our beloved University right now & he wants to write this article.  Maybe the Dominion Post will hire him away & his drivel will no longer show up on our message boards.

[svherd]

If we can't , I have no problem with it. We know it's coming. We can be the best of the non P5 and we will be fine. As he said, do the best we can for our student athletes. The last thing we need to do is start running up massive deficits that we can never pay back just to try to run with the big boys.
Unless, everyone on these boards, BG, season tix holders and alumni start giving 10K a year. Don't think that's happening.

[luvherd]

Said before I will say it again. We should band together and agree to not play any regular season games with the 5. Doing it this year. If all did it, the 5 would have to neat each other up.

[jstherd]

HerdinKY is 100% correct. The timing of the article is suspicious. Vingleberry could not swallow MU being on a high and being in the news while WV was no where to be found. While WV is in the Big 12, they will always be a bottom feeded in that conference. They have already proven that. They went from a top dog in the Big Easy to a pussycat in the Big 12. Let's see where the two schools finish in the FB polls this year.

[Sam-I-am]

HerdinKY is 100% correct. The timing of the article is suspicious. Vingleberry could not swallow MU being on a high and being in the news while WV was no where to be found. While WV is in the Big 12, they will always be a bottom feeded in that conference. They have already proven that. They went from a top dog in the Big Easy to a @#$%ycat in the Big 12. Let's see where the two schools finish in the FB polls this year.

+1.  Sad thing is 75-80% of the P5 schools play mid-major level football, yet they ride the coattails of the other 20-25% and get handed millions.....

[andy31]

If the Power 5 pass these things, which they certainly will, that will really hurt us. I'd like to see a lower division formed with us and the rest of the Group of 5 lower conferences plus bring up some top FCS schools. I'm sure that will not be a popular opinion but I believe it would give us the opportunity to play for a championship with a true playoff like the 1-AA days. I know some might view this as a step backwards but I think it would deal with the reality we're in and I don't know about you all but I loved the playoff games back in the day.

[The E-Man]

The problem isn't w/ Vingleberry's words.  The problem is the joy it brings him to write them.  He needs to take a drive North to "The Hole" today & commune w/ Horseface, Horsewoman, & Huggy Bear.  If I had a subscription to that rag of a paper I'd cancel it.  All the great & wonderful things happening for our beloved University right now & he wants to write this article.  Maybe the Dominion Post will hire him away & his drivel will no longer show up on our message boards.

This^ well said! Vingleberry said, " we might finish in the top25 this year" lol,  we finished 7th in one poll in 1999. Vingleberry hates Marshall, period!

[BHFIOHIO]

and the new rules are already in place. Gulf or no gulf, the top little 5 team as decided by the selection comt gets a high dollar bowl. That's whether they are paying players like the big confs or not. If the pouties ever have to play all 12 vs the bigs they will be lucky to be bowl eligible once ever 5 yrs...lol.

[backontrack]

Teams like us will never play for any kind of national title anyway (unless we go back to FCS)...and we'll be playing the same teams we're playing now...so it really doesn't make any difference other than the perception of morons like Vingle who will continue to bolster WVU as "big time" and Marshall as a step below...

[goherd24]

If the Power 5 pass these things, which they certainly will, that will really hurt us. I'd like to see a lower division formed with us and the rest of the Group of 5 lower conferences plus bring up some top FCS schools. I'm sure that will not be a popular opinion but I believe it would give us the opportunity to play for a championship with a true playoff like the 1-AA days. I know some might view this as a step backwards but I think it would deal with the reality we're in and I don't know about you all but I loved the playoff games back in the day.

Completely disagree, though I see your point. I couldn't stomach being relegated to the minor leagues. Hopefully this doesn't happen. Would be like being a fan of the cleveland browns. We may not ever win a title, but we are in the league, and with that brings hope every year. If your scenario played out, it would be like being a Browns fan and the team gets moved to the CFL, or Arena league.

[Thunders]

Hey the Browns will be in a championship some day!! :)

[The Right Stuff]

I doubt it.

TRS
MU 71

[Johnnyherd]

Well, let's not grow or recruit students....

lets stay the same size, or maybe add 100 students a year and watch the world leave us behind....

I wouldn't be surprised if the MAC finally decides to give in and invest money in athletics....

Half the MAC schools are twice our size and have twice our overall budget....

What they don't have in fans they make up for in student fees...

[HerdnClt]

When you have nothing to write about with WVU football, you try to belittle a top 25 Herd program. That's class.

[MUther]

What will likely happen is that the AAC will be able to afford this and 4-5 schools from each of the remaining G5 conferences will.   I see pressure to stay included forcing the schools that can away from those that can't and reforming their own conference to compete with the AAC and the P5.  In the end if we (hopefully) and the rest that can make this happen meet the upgraded requirements that they throw at us, it will apply some pressure on them and the NCAA to give more inclusion to us or strap on more cash restrictions that will eventually begin hurting some of the poorer P5 schools. 

Some of those schools only athletic budget comes from the conference payouts and if the schools have to start funneling money into their programs from other departments they are gonna be less than excited to vote for more payouts to players over what's been proposed.  If we can agree with a smile and keep forcing their hand, eventually they will nickel and dime their own members out of making any money at all or give up the idea and let us play ball with them.

[Johnnyherd]

I don't think they have to play mid majors....In fact, that's what the TV networks want anyway....

BIG time against Big time, every Saturday from week one to the National Championship....

It will take a few years for the fans to accept their schools losing, but ultimately the whole paradigm will shift and the playoffs will get bigger....

So when mega school X loses twice, their fans can stay on board and hope for a playoff run to the title....
______________________________________________________________________________________________

I've just accepted that Marshall is not going to be a part of this next stage of D-1 college athletics.....and I'm fine with it....

I think we should find a niche like before and be the kings of the second tier....I don't care if we take Grand Valley state's place....

Marshall is too small....Even with a big donation for Jim Justice, it won't carry us more than one year....Unless he donates huge every single year...We won't be able to complete....

We missed our chance to grow....We sat on our hands and lost ground....now we don't reap what we didn't sow....

[svherd]

I don't think they have to play mid majors....In fact, that's what the TV networks want anyway....

BIG time against Big time, every Saturday from week one to the National Championship....

It will take a few years for the fans to accept their schools losing, but ultimately the whole paradigm will shift and the playoffs will get bigger....

So when mega school X loses twice, their fans can stay on board and hope for a playoff run to the title....
______________________________________________________________________________________________

I've just accepted that Marshall is not going to be a part of this next stage of D-1 college athletics.....and I'm fine with it....

I think we should find a niche like before and be the kings of the second tier....I don't care if we take Grand Valley state's place....

Marshall is too small....Even with a big donation for Jim Justice, it won't carry us more than one year....Unless he donates huge every single year...We won't be able to complete....

We missed our chance to grow....We sat on our hands and lost ground....now we don't reap what we didn't sow....

Very well said. Marshall missed the boat with bad hires (KO, Angel) , not being more proactive with its donors, alumni and students, and continuing to build its brand.

[Buffalo Bop]

Note to Vingle: Marshall is playing for a championship this season; wvu will lay another turd. Period.


 

[bbcard1]

The big thing is to enjoy this and make it a great season. It's all going to be fine. $400,000 on a budget to 25 million is not a killshot. There are a lot of other variances as well, like what the minimum number of scholarship sports allowed will be, etc. The sky isn't falling.  And for heavens sake, can we let the Kayo Marcum thing go and focus on our future.

[mutink]

When you have nothing to write about with WVU football, you try to belittle a top 25 Herd program. That's class.

+1

[iherdya]

Well, let's not grow or recruit students....

lets stay the same size, or maybe add 100 students a year and watch the world leave us behind....

I wouldn't be surprised if the MAC finally decides to give in and invest money in athletics....

Half the MAC schools are twice our size and have twice our overall budget....

What they don't have in fans they make up for in student fees...

in the long run you don't want to be dependent on student fees to fund athletics. as states cut higher ed spending more and more every year, tuitions will increase nationwide, and student fees will instead start to be directed to cover shortages in education. athletic departments are going to have to survive more and more on other types of revenue (ticket sales, television $, etc).

[luvherd]

The City of Huntington, State of WV and Marshall have made many decisions to stent growth. As BB said time to move on and focus on change and a new horizon. The state will have an abundance of energy for decades. This needs to spring board jobs, etc. New jobs will cure Huntington's ills.

[Sam-I-am]

What will likely happen is that the AAC will be able to afford this and 4-5 schools from each of the remaining G5 conferences will.   I see pressure to stay included forcing the schools that can away from those that can't and reforming their own conference to compete with the AAC and the P5.  In the end if we (hopefully) and the rest that can make this happen meet the upgraded requirements that they throw at us, it will apply some pressure on them and the NCAA to give more inclusion to us or strap on more cash restrictions that will eventually begin hurting some of the poorer P5 schools.  

Some of those schools only athletic budget comes from the conference payouts and if the schools have to start funneling money into their programs from other departments they are gonna be less than excited to vote for more payouts to players over what's been proposed.  If we can agree with a smile and keep forcing their hand, eventually they will nickel and dime their own members out of making any money at all or give up the idea and let us play ball with them.

+1.  A few random thoughts.......   If this does to come to fruition, IMO G5 schools will have to take a long, hard look at conference affiliations vs. being relevant in football...travel be damned.  In many ways the MWC and AAC have already positioned themselves for this change.  However, I believed the AAC erred in many ways by picking media potential schools over football potential schools.  IMO, FOOTBALL is driving the bus in this discussion, not media markets.  With the loss of Louisville and Rutgers from the AAC a conference of Cincinnati, Marshall, Navy, Bowling Green, Ohio, Toledo, MTSU/WKU, N. Illinois, UCF, ECU, Houston, USF, Tulsa, SMU, Tulsa, USM(once recovered) doesn't look half bad, and would be competitive head-to-head with 80% of all the P5 schools.  Personally I'd prefer MU be in a southern based conference, but we may not have a choice in the matter.  

With that said, I'm not sold that several of the bottom end of the P5 schools can afford equality in benefits across the board for ALL of their men and women's scholarship sports. That's an awful lot of travel expenses for families of soccer, tennis, lacrosse, and Olympic sports athletes, etc.   This should be interesting to watch unfold.  The difference in stipend amounts from one school to the next will be the most entertaining.  I can't wait to see Alabama, Auburn, UF, FSU, officials try to justify why their stipends are as high as USC, UCLA, etc.  Yeah, Tuscaloosa, Gainesville, Auburn, etc., are expensive places to live....roll eyes.