Author Topic: It's the schedule, stupid...  (Read 8296 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Online banker

Re: It's the schedule, stupid...
« Reply #25 on: May 25, 2014, 11:07:44 PM »
  • [Like]0
  • [Dislike]0
  • If we go 13-0 we will be ranked somewhere between #10 and #15 in both polls. The computers won't like us as much, but I really don't care. Our schedule this year is not substantially different from 1999.

    Here's the thing about getting ranked and moving up the polls, how good you are isn't the only thing that matters.  Sure, you have to win, but. G5 schools like us get more lift from having notable players. Having Cato get so much press is good for votes despite our schedule. It was the same during the Pennington and Leftwich years.  Yes, we will be beating questionable teams, but we will be doing it with a star QB. Voters love stars.

    If Cato performs this year at a level as good as, or better, than the last two years he will be getting a ton of hype. That hype raises the awareness of our program. Votes follow awareness.
     

    HerdFans.com

    Re: It's the schedule, stupid...
    « Reply #25 on: May 25, 2014, 11:07:44 PM »

    Offline Dunk

    • Benefactors of HerdFans
    • All American
    • *
    • Posts: 1323
    • Thanked: 234 times
    • Gender: Male
    • HerdFans Contributor
    Re: It's the schedule, stupid...
    « Reply #26 on: May 25, 2014, 11:20:26 PM »
  • [Like]0
  • [Dislike]0
  • Dunk, I'm not sure you've been exposed to the several posts over the last several months that have indicated a disturbingly MAC-fan-like contentment with this conference (and naturally, the opponents we are expected to play year-in-year-out) as-is. Those many posts stand in opposition to your assumption that you're speaking for them in suggesting that "we all want to reach for the stars."

    To the contrary, even in this very thread, there is a sentiment that striving for the CFP Bowl berth is beyond us... and it's just not. There's a satisfaction with Top 25 as-if that's all we can hope for... and it's just not. If you can agree on those points, we have common ground... if not, we don't, and you essentially align yourself with the MAC-like contingent.

    I'm inclined to think that you, as others seem to have, read a few lines and thought you understood the point of the post... but if you didn't recognize that those first lines where a premise to the real focus/conclusion, my message just didn't get through... if I'm to blame for that, so be it... but then, let me just say again...

    Finally... a re-read hopefully will reveal to you what it seemed to reveal in Collis' (and hopefully others') first read... I feel like top 25 is, at least, very likely with an undefeated season. High fives all around. Hallelujah! How exciting!!!

    Well I guess we agree then. Nobody should be completely content with where we are. There should never be a reason to stop striving for better. Top 25 will be progress from where we have been, and that is all I ask for. I expect and desire for us "move up" following a period of continued progress.


     

    Offline _sturt_

    Re: It's the schedule, stupid...
    « Reply #27 on: May 25, 2014, 11:34:13 PM »
  • [Like]0
  • [Dislike]0
  • Well I guess we agree then. Nobody should be completely content with where we are. There should never be a reason to stop striving for better. Top 25 will be progress from where we have been, and that is all I ask for. I expect and desire for us "move up" following a period of continued progress.

    Common ground struck. That's truly all we can do for 2014.

    But the point of my post begs the question... what are you and the rest of us going to do to advocate for change that will enhance our future teams' opportunity to play for the CFP bowl? Most throw up their hands and leave it to the players and coaches. No mistaking... they've got to do their part... but unless we, as fans, are fulfilling the one real thing we can possibly do... advocate for changes that optimize our position... that's a cop out... and I can't say it enough, we're no different than most MAC fans, then.
     

    Online banker

    Re: It's the schedule, stupid...
    « Reply #28 on: May 25, 2014, 11:40:15 PM »
  • [Like]0
  • [Dislike]0
  • So sturt, what's your Big Green point rank?  Are you doing all you can or are your efforts limited to novel length posts about mythical conference alliances?
     

    Offline _sturt_

    Re: It's the schedule, stupid...
    « Reply #29 on: May 25, 2014, 11:53:56 PM »
  • [Like]0
  • [Dislike]0
  • So sturt, what's your Big Green point rank?  Are you doing all you can or are your efforts limited to novel length posts about mythical conference alliances?

    Banker, I swear, every time you give me reason for optimism, you soon end up in the next exchange to prove yourself such a fake.

    For all you know, I could be the largest donor to the BG for 50 years running. And? And it wouldn't matter. We're not talking about a matter where any of us Joe HerdFans are going to be able to make a contribution large enough to change our schedule so that we aren't so disadvantaged... which, is the whole point of this discussion, if you hadn't bothered to notice.

    Why it bothers you so much for me to advocate for people to brainstorm ideas to improve our lot is a mystery. It's like this thing is personal with you... I don't say this lightly... you just aren't sincere... you cling to your cynicism with every knuckle clinched, and take every opportunity to tear down rather than re-model or make additions...

    Got nothing for you.

    At the VERY least, we all ought to be able to agree that we want a 6-game conference football schedule every year. If you have no other ideas than that, okay, but that would be some progress.
    « Last Edit: May 25, 2014, 11:56:53 PM by _sturt_ »
     

    Offline jt

    Re: It's the schedule, stupid...
    « Reply #30 on: May 26, 2014, 12:47:05 AM »
  • [Like]0
  • [Dislike]0
  • "A 6 game conference schedule???" Where in the world did that come from?  We' d have tons of trouble filling out that schedule. We'd be deeper in the "schedule rank toilet" than now.

    Banker, well-said. Appreciate your contributions.

    Bring on the Herd.....................
    Go HERD!!!
     

    Offline BuyNtelos4

    Re: It's the schedule, stupid...
    « Reply #31 on: May 26, 2014, 12:49:38 AM »
  • [Like]0
  • [Dislike]0
  • These threads are often hard to read, and I don't see how they gets 25 replies worth of debating.  Last year after 12 games we had 3 losses.  Of course a non BCS team with 3 losses is not going to be in the top 25.  I don't care if all 4 of your non conference games were against the previous years B12, P10, B1G and SEC's champs.  3 losses, mid major, not in top 25 ever.

    This year, if at the end of the season were are 11-1 or 12-0, we will absolutely be in the top 25 regardless of our schedule, just like every other mid major team that has finished the season 11-1 or 12-0 in the last 10 years.  
     

    Offline Dunk

    • Benefactors of HerdFans
    • All American
    • *
    • Posts: 1323
    • Thanked: 234 times
    • Gender: Male
    • HerdFans Contributor
    Re: It's the schedule, stupid...
    « Reply #32 on: May 26, 2014, 12:54:28 AM »
  • [Like]0
  • [Dislike]0
  • Common ground struck. That's truly all we can do for 2014.

    But the point of my post begs the question... what are you and the rest of us going to do to advocate for change that will enhance our future teams' opportunity to play for the CFP bowl? Most throw up their hands and leave it to the players and coaches. No mistaking... they've got to do their part... but unless we, as fans, are fulfilling the one real thing we can possibly do... advocate for changes that optimize our position... that's a cop out... and I can't say it enough, we're no different than most MAC fans, then.

    Well since your question was partially directed at me:

    I am a young college graduate in the first years of my career, and currently trying to start a stable life. Getting married on Saturday, and plan to start planning for a home purchase. I give what I can, but I am some where around #1500 in the voting process. I'm sure that's not impressive, but I don't mind sharing. Once I get to a more stable plateau I will try to up my game.

    Also, since I can't give a whole lot monetarily, I spend a lot of free time trying to get Marshall media exposed online to help with fan growth and recruiting (probably doesn't account for much, but I can try).

    I am standing here today on a well-read Marshall message board claiming that I would desire to progress to a larger/better conference. What else would you like to be done to "advocate" for change? State the obvious via e-mails or phone calls? Peaceful protests with signs? Go on strike as fans?


     

    Offline _sturt_

    Re: It's the schedule, stupid...
    « Reply #33 on: May 26, 2014, 12:59:17 AM »
  • [Like]0
  • [Dislike]0
  • "A 6 game conference schedule???" Where in the world did that come from?  We' d have tons of trouble filling out that schedule. We'd be deeper in the "schedule rank toilet" than now.

    You're already playing Sun Belt competition in your own division as it is.

    Could we do worse than playing the likes of UTSA and UAB each year?

    C'mon. Not much.

    There's a whole lot more possible upside to having two more games under Hamrick's control than having it automatically committed every year to two CUSA West teams.
    « Last Edit: May 26, 2014, 01:04:22 AM by _sturt_ »
     

    Offline _sturt_

    Re: It's the schedule, stupid...
    « Reply #34 on: May 26, 2014, 01:03:23 AM »
  • [Like]0
  • [Dislike]0
  • These threads are often hard to read, and I don't see how they gets 25 replies worth of debating.  Last year after 12 games we had 3 losses.  Of course a non BCS team with 3 losses is not going to be in the top 25.  I don't care if all 4 of your non conference games were against the previous years B12, P10, B1G and SEC's champs.  3 losses, mid major, not in top 25 ever.

    This year, if at the end of the season were are 11-1 or 12-0, we will absolutely be in the top 25 regardless of our schedule, just like every other mid major team that has finished the season 11-1 or 12-0 in the last 10 years.  

    I can't be any clearer, for my part... you guys are probably right... but Ntelos and others, you're looking like you're getting a little TOO sure of yourselves... if we had the benefit of seeing an undefeated Sun Belt team at some point, well, okay then... but truly, we will be breaking new ground if we can go undefeated with such a lightweight schedule.

    But... AGAIN... the question isn't actually very important, relative to what is actually very important.
     

    Offline goherd24

    Re: It's the schedule, stupid...
    « Reply #35 on: May 26, 2014, 01:05:18 AM »
  • [Like]0
  • [Dislike]0
  • Well since your question was partially directed at me:

    I am a young college graduate in the first years of my career, and currently trying to start a stable life. Getting married on Saturday, and plan to start planning for a home purchase. I give what I can, but I am some where around #1500 in the voting process. I'm sure that's not impressive, but I don't mind sharing. Once I get to a more stable plateau I will try to up my game.

    Also, since I can't give a whole lot monetarily, I spend a lot of free time trying to get Marshall media exposed online to help with fan growth and recruiting (probably doesn't account for much, but I can try).

    I am standing here today on a well-read Marshall message board claiming that I would desire to progress to a larger/better conference. What else would you like to be done to "advocate" for change? State the obvious via e-mails or phone calls? Peaceful protests with signs? Go on strike as fans?

    Very well said Dunk. You do what you can when you can. A true herd fan, that I have seen at away games and one of the few on this board I had the pleasure of meeting. Tha ks for what you do for the board and the herd.
     

    Offline _sturt_

    Re: It's the schedule, stupid...
    « Reply #36 on: May 26, 2014, 01:14:58 AM »
  • [Like]0
  • [Dislike]0
  • Well since your question was partially directed at me:

    I am a young college graduate in the first years of my career, and currently trying to start a stable life. Getting married on Saturday, and plan to start planning for a home purchase. I give what I can, but I am some where around #1500 in the voting process. I'm sure that's not impressive, but I don't mind sharing. Once I get to a more stable plateau I will try to up my game.

    Also, since I can't give a whole lot monetarily, I spend a lot of free time trying to get Marshall media exposed online to help with fan growth and recruiting (probably doesn't account for much, but I can try).

    I am standing here today on a well-read Marshall message board claiming that I would desire to progress to a larger/better conference. What else would you like to be done to "advocate" for change? State the obvious via e-mails or phone calls? Peaceful protests with signs? Go on strike as fans?

    Congrats and good luck in your marriage, Dunk.

    Candidly, your response  here reads like you feel you've been castigated as a fan... as-if you think I think you ought to give more... like that would make a difference to this topic... or that you think I think you ought to have a larger internet presence or be part of some formal campaign advocating X or Y...

    But no. It's not even that complex or imposing or invasive.

    I've put forward no less than 3 ideas over the last year or so... (hehe... banker, of course, hates at least two of them, and probably all three... ) but at least I'm coming up with ideas and not simply sitting in judgment and shooting down anything that gets proposed... at least, when people propose ideas in whatever area they propose them, Herd-related or not, it's my inclination to try to modify or build on top of what they've put on the table... I value that kind of attitude over that of the cynics, so naturally, I embrace it.

    And I think that somewhat explains why other than vandalia and a few others, so many on this board have been pretty adversarial to what I believe ought to be seen as a genuine effort to make lemonade out of our lemons. There's always a balance between realism and optimism to be struck... too much optimism, and you're an idealist... too much realism, and you're a cynic. It comes down to what you'd rather be considered, and I'd much rather be considered an idealist... my ego is not so vulnerable that I feel I have to defend it by holding tightly lest people take shots at my optimism/idealism. Too, people can lean toward cynicism because they tend to think they don't have much power in these things... and they're right that individuals don't... but we aren't individuals... we are a fan base, and as we come together on things, it gets noticed... it gets attention.

    So, my challenge, not just to you, but to myself and all of us, is to think about the nature of this particular problem... it's a scheduling problem... our players are doomed in this environment to not get to play up to the level that we've been used to playing for the last 10 years, and as such, are disadvantaged in comparison to AAC and MWC schools in the pursuit of the holy grail... the CFP bowl... and, the challenge is to either invent or support existing ideas that address that problem. No, we can't simply decide to join AAC or MWC, and most of us recognize the folly of re-joining the MAC if it were ever offered. But we're just a half-step away from Sun Belt status at this point. We can't be content. We have to figure out a way to enhance our football schedule in spite of the conference we find ourselves in.
    « Last Edit: May 26, 2014, 01:34:31 AM by _sturt_ »
     

    HerdFans.com

    Re: It's the schedule, stupid...
    « Reply #36 on: May 26, 2014, 01:14:58 AM »

    Offline backontrack

    Re: It's the schedule, stupid...
    « Reply #37 on: May 26, 2014, 09:17:45 AM »
  • [Like]0
  • [Dislike]0
  • We're in a conference that has lost a great deal of cache over the last ten years...right now it's a motley collection of hasbeens and never-wases for the most part...however, I feel that recent additions have been positive and will eventually set C-USA in a better light...I personally like our spot better than the AAC's, which is marginally better (although they have more "name" schools like UC, UConn, and USF) and required substantial exit/entrance fees...all we can do is win and be better positioned for the next round of conference shuffling (including an upgrade of men's and women's Olympic sports)...as for the non-conference games, we have the option of finding attractive 1-1 matchups (see Army, Purdue, Louisville) or accepting 1-and-dones like we did in West and Kayo years (pretty much automatic "L's"--just like what'll happen when UC plays OSU)...I feel that we need to take a long-range approach and establish a program that's gonna be solid over time...and let the chips fall where they may...I mean, we'll never be in a position where we'll be among the "elites"...that's just the way it is...even Boise State has come back to earth...
     

    Offline bbcard1

    • Benefactors of HerdFans
    • Assistant Coach
    • *
    • Posts: 8758
    • Thanked: 2760 times
    • Marco's Den Member Since 02/2009
    Re: It's the schedule, stupid...
    « Reply #38 on: May 26, 2014, 09:57:36 AM »
  • [Like]0
  • [Dislike]0
  • Marshall is a brand that transcends its conference.  We are a lot better off than a lot of schools. UCF has an ideal situation, but will never have the brand Marshall has...though they probably are next to jump from the AAC.

    Offline _sturt_

    Re: It's the schedule, stupid...
    « Reply #39 on: May 26, 2014, 10:39:10 AM »
  • [Like]0
  • [Dislike]0
  • ...all we can do is win...

    Of course, we all know that neither you, me, nor anyone else can win. That's on the players and coaches exclusively.

    But what can we do? As stated in a previous post, there are at least three strategies that could be pursued to put us in a stronger position than we are now to compete for the CFP bowl. That's our area. That... idea generation and advocacy... is our part. That's where we can have an effect. But we won't unless we embrace it.

    Look, thankfully, we're past the point that anyone is resisting acknowledging that we're in a disadvantaged position... the problem is there staring us in the face. Would I anticipate that there would be a solid number of cynics out there throwing up their hands and saying let the chips fall where they may? Would I anticipate many would excuse themselves from being an advocate for change? Of course. I didn't find this board yesterday. I know how most are. But to this degree? No. Not to this degree.

    It's disappointing to see a community with such a can-do history seeming to fade into this MAC-fan-like malaise... "hey, we are what we are, and we're powerless to do anything, so I might as well love playing schools that used to be Sun Belt... love playing schools that used to be FCS... love playing schools that are just starting programs."

    I realize those words are vinegar instead of honey, but it's honest and I'm just not into playing salesman and throwing sugar on top. It's all just frustrating to see. Baffling. Disturbing. Since entering the SoCon in the early 80s, I don't recall ever seeing this helpless, MAC-fan-like attitude arise.

    I can't say it enough... "win Baby"... yes, absolutely.

    "Just" Win Baby? *sigh*... no. That's a cop-out.

    You're letting our players down by pretending it's only about what they do on the field.

    True, none of us individually have decision-making power that we can snap our fingers and make things as we wish them to be.

    But as a group, we all have to be willing to accept that that doesn't relieve us of our responsibility to do what we can, which is to be off-the-field, loud-and-proud advocates of change, creating an environment where presidents and conference execs take notice and feel they have latitude to try things that may represent out-of-the-box thinking... so that our players have the very best opportunity they can receive to perform on the biggest stage within their grasp to play on.

    These are on the table: (1) cooperation with MAC in the creation of a formal progression/relegation format yielding a high-end 8 team league that would place the two leagues' best on-par with AAC and MWC; (2) cooperation with MAC in the creation of an arrangement that would establish a game between our two champions, serving as an end-of-year springboard such that one or the other would be a viable candidate beside the AAC and MWC champs for the CFP bowl; (3) simply staying in-house and giving ADs maximum control over their own schedules, requiring only the mandated minimum number of in-conference games.

    What else? Whose ego out there isn't so squishy and squeamish that you don't mind being a target of the cynics here who will shoot down your potentially-consequential ideas? C'mon. Care more about this program than your own ego. We can't eliminate the cynics, but they and their can't-do MAC-fan-like attitude aren't going to make the difference. Step forward and add to the menu of possible solutions to this problem that confronts our program and its players.
    « Last Edit: May 26, 2014, 11:57:42 AM by _sturt_ »
     

    Offline mxman870

    Re: It's the schedule, stupid...
    « Reply #40 on: May 26, 2014, 10:49:40 AM »
  • [Like]0
  • [Dislike]0
  • Well since your question was partially directed at me:

    I am a young college graduate in the first years of my career, and currently trying to start a stable life. Getting married on Saturday, and plan to start planning for a home purchase. I give what I can, but I am some where around #1500 in the voting process. I'm sure that's not impressive, but I don't mind sharing. Once I get to a more stable plateau I will try to up my game.

    For a young whipper snapper just beginning your career I think being in the #1500 range is very commendable. Just think how many Herd graduates that are alive and your mark looks pretty good to these old eyes. 

    Congrats on your engagement and I wish your nothing but the best in your marriage and life.

    Go Herd.
     

    Offline goherd24

    Re: It's the schedule, stupid...
    « Reply #41 on: May 26, 2014, 12:08:16 PM »
  • [Like]0
  • [Dislike]0
  • Sturt, I hope you know that no one reads those novel length posts. Try to be more concise. This is a message board not a "reply with blog" site. It would help if you simplified your vocabulary as well, using longer words may make you feel smart, but it doesn't help get yo utter point across and certainly doesn't help the length or readability of your posts. Just a thought.
     

    Offline _sturt_

    Re: It's the schedule, stupid...
    « Reply #42 on: May 26, 2014, 01:09:51 PM »
  • [Like]0
  • [Dislike]0
  • hehe... 24, I appreciate that you might have written that sincerely just wanting to help me do a better job of winning people to my perspectives... I hope that's the case, and will presume that it is... so I hope you won't take it wrong if my response is that, my friend, this is where I get to turn the tables on other cynics and take that position myself... ie...

    The people who read my posts are the people who read my posts, and the people who don't, don't. And I'm very content with that.

    Of course, it's not my purpose to put anyone off, but then again, if you think about it, there's a side benefit in the fact that there's a selection effect--screening out those who just aren't willing to read and think and chew gun at the same time, leaving the discussion to only those who actually crave substance.

    Yes, it's smug to say, but it's just one of those life things that's accurate to say: the people who crave substance are those whose opinions, in the end, actually matter. And why do they matter? They matter because they don't cave to mental laziness... because they're readers, and because they're readers, they're also thinkers, and because they're thinkers, they're also doers... and because they're doers, they're also achievers. They're the ones who actually matter.

    Concisely? Okay, I'll play. This sums it up: Quality of those who read matters more than quantity.

    And I don't want to foster any friction with you since we've often had common ground in our perspectives, but may I speak candidly? Pardon me if I assume so... and then... pardon the observation that, maybe it's just me, but I for one wouldn't presume to use absolute terms like "no one" or "everyone," or to tell you or anyone else that I have insight into what number of people read their posts when clearly there's no actual way of knowing one way or the other on that point... I wouldn't presume to tell anyone that this is a message board not a Twitter feed since it's really up to any individual, to my mind, what and how much they want to write, and up to readers to make their own choices as to whose writing stimulates their thinking enough to be worth their time and effort to read... nor would I presume to tell anyone that they need not limit themselves to a fifth-grade reading level vocab because it doesn't reflect well on the intelligence level of Marshall alums and supporters if they continue to seem so simple.

    Now, I realize that may come off at first as sounding a bit smug, but really... is it?... Is it smug to say "I don't know" when I really don't know?... Is it smug to say I think people should feel free to write as little or as much as they think they need to write to express their points clearly?... Is it smug to say I think people should feel free to use whatever terms they believe most precisely convey what they're trying to get across, without having to ratchet-up their vocab, or for that matter, ratchet it down?

    I don't think so. To the contrary, it could easily be taken as smug for me to instruct others how I think they should write. So, I don't go there. On the other hand, I don't mind that you bring it up, and as I said at the start, I don't assume you're being smug, but rather assume you genuinely just wanted to be helpful, whether you actually agree with me or not.

    Thanks in advance for indulging my candor.

    ==============================================

    Okay... with that sidebar being completed... my appeal in this thread isn't to those who get easily sidetracked into thinking about whether they'd ever think to buy me a beer, ie whether they like me personally, but to those who are problem solvers and able to focus on problems and solutions instead of personalities... so let's get back to where we were...

    These are on the table: (1) cooperation with MAC in the creation of a formal progression/relegation format yielding a high-end 8 team league ("Great 8") that would place the two leagues' best on-par with AAC and MWC; (2) cooperation with MAC in the creation of an arrangement that would establish a last-weekend-of-the-regular-season game between our two champions, serving as an end-of-year springboard such that one or the other would be a viable candidate beside the AAC and MWC champs for the CFP bowl; (3) simply staying in-house and giving ADs maximum control over their own schedules, requiring only the mandated minimum number of in-conference games.

    What else? Whose ego out there isn't so squishy and squeamish that you don't mind being a target of the cynics here who will shoot down your potentially-consequential ideas? C'mon. Care more about this program than your own ego. We can't eliminate the cynics, but they and their can't-do MAC-fan-like attitude aren't going to make the difference. Step forward and add to the menu of possible solutions to this problem that confronts our program and its players.
    « Last Edit: May 26, 2014, 01:25:54 PM by _sturt_ »
     

    Online banker

    Re: It's the schedule, stupid...
    « Reply #43 on: May 26, 2014, 04:52:53 PM »
  • [Like]0
  • [Dislike]0
  • Sturt, coming up with ideas and posting them on a message board is the epitome of doing nothing, especially when it centers around ideas that would never be implemented even if someone in authority got ahold of them.

    There is only one way the average fan can make any difference to a college sports program, by giving them as much money as you can (and convince others to do the same).  Well, I guess there is a second thing, have a son, spend countless time and money to develop him into the best athlete you possibly can, and then make sure he attends the school you support.

    Unimplementable ideas, and the endless recounting of those ideas, has no value.
     

    Offline _sturt_

    Re: It's the schedule, stupid...
    « Reply #44 on: May 26, 2014, 05:39:15 PM »
  • [Like]0
  • [Dislike]0
  • Sturt, coming up with ideas and posting them on a message board is the epitome of doing nothing, especially when it centers around ideas that would never be implemented even if someone in authority got ahold of them.

    There is only one way the average fan can make any difference to a college sports program, by giving them as much money as you can (and convince others to do the same).  Well, I guess there is a second thing, have a son, spend countless time and money to develop him into the best athlete you possibly can, and then make sure he attends the school you support.

    Unimplementable ideas, and the endless recounting of those ideas, has no value.

    Banker, you're just so cynical that you become incoherent, my friend. And incoherence gives way to irrelevance.

    There is no amount of money that any of us Joe Fans can give that is going to change the schedule situation.

    There is no recruit that can be obtained who is going to change the schedule situation.

    There's just not.

    And yet, you want to talk about what has no value. *sigh* Yeah. Okay, Mr. Irrelevant.

    We have a problem. I'm just encouraging us to come up with some ways to fix it, and then, do what fans are supposed to do... advocate for one or more of those ways. We agree on this much, though. Merely advocating on a message board will have very limited results. Once there's some degree of consensus, there has to be some people making some noise beyond the board. But we're not there yet. Heck, people like you barely acknowledge the problem, let alone come up with ideas. Cop. Out.

    How bout you go on about your business in some other threads and let us optimists settle on some idea that most of us feel good about, and then we'll worry about the next step. You don't want to help, all good... that's probably a good thing given your mentality... just leave it to others, and get out of the way.

    « Last Edit: May 26, 2014, 05:43:42 PM by _sturt_ »
     

    Offline goherd24

    Re: It's the schedule, stupid...
    « Reply #45 on: May 26, 2014, 06:01:37 PM »
  • [Like]0
  • [Dislike]0
  • We have shared the same stance on subjects in the past, but I will say that just because someone reads (be it an uneccessarily long post on a sports message board, or a book), and thinks, and does, will not make them better than anyone else or even make them a doer, let alone "all that matter". What it will do is end up making them alone. I was writing that to let you know if you would actually like others to consider your ideas, make them more concise. You will lose their interest when they see the post take up the whole page and move on in the discussion. Leaving you feeling like you have achieved a superior and undebatable point of view and post, and them feeling like they don't even care enough to discuss it further.

    Moving on to scheduling,  did you forget the last decade? Where we scheduled big....lost big... and it helped no one? Last year we won 10 games and suddenly we are back on the map. No one cares who we played, but the most die hard and analytical. We won 10 games, finished 29th. This yar we will surpass that as well. We have some quality teams on the schedule in the future.

    Bottom line:

    Our schedule is one of the weakest in the country. We will still be a top 15 team at years end and play in the access bowl if we go undefeated with no mwc or aac team being undefeated. Putting OSU on the schedule and finishing 12-1 does not help us. Beating them and going 13-0, would no help us. We would still get the access bowl and nothing more. That is realistically our ceiling. We can make that road harder, yes, but it still ends there. Which begs to question, why would you want to take a bus, then walk, hathen climb a mountain to get to your destination, when you could get on a helicopter and fly straight there for the same cost? (Yes, the helicopter is the easy schedule and the other is scheduling tough)
     

    Offline herdinphilly

    Re: It's the schedule, stupid...
    « Reply #46 on: May 26, 2014, 06:15:26 PM »
  • [Like]0
  • [Dislike]0
  • I've been among the chief antagonists on this point, and what concerns me is the mere fact that we're finding contentment in the idea that if we go undefeated we might land in the top 25.

    Do you even hear yourselves?

    That's a pretty significant lowering of our standards.

    Top 25 should be a given if we go undefeated.

    Top 25 is a nice achievement, but the real prize... both in terms of money and in terms of prestige... is being the school selected for a CFP Bowl.

    It's not going to happen unless we take some definitive measures, either as a conference or on our own, to overcome our FBS bottom-feeder conference schedule.

    "Win Baby"... yes, absolutely.

    "Just" Win Baby? *sigh*... that phrase is going to haunt so many of you when, at the end of this season, we're undefeated and see ourselves looking up at 1-3 other Go5 schools who lost one or more.

    If you think about it, you're actually letting our players down by pretending it's only about what they do on the field.

    I know the refrain. And, you're right... none of you individually have decision-making power.

    But you have to be an advocate of change so that you create an environment where presidents and conference execs take notice and feel they have latitude to try things that may represent out-of-the-box thiking... so that our players have the very best opportunity they can receive to perform on the biggest stage within their grasp to play on.

    Exactly who did Northern Illinois beat?
     

    HerdFans.com

    Re: It's the schedule, stupid...
    « Reply #46 on: May 26, 2014, 06:15:26 PM »

    Offline BHFIOHIO

    Re: It's the schedule, stupid...
    « Reply #47 on: May 26, 2014, 06:43:21 PM »
  • [Like]0
  • [Dislike]0
  • the actual truth is we don't know how the selection committee will pick when for example we are 13 and 0 this yr and UCF is 11 and 1 with a win over Penn St and a 7 point loss at Missouri. I don't like the odds. Schedule strength has been bandied about for yrs now and I believe we need to play a big team in the OOC. #1 is we need the money and #2 is if we win the conf we will get a better bowl with a better opp even if its not the access bowl. And if we are good enough to beat someone in the access bowl then we should be good enough to beat someone in the OOC part. Qu-eers and VT in the same yr no but I fear our fate in the hands of the selection guys with aschedule like 2014. And I realize we had UL scheduled...not our fault. Still think all AAC squads could have two losses this yr....got my fingers crossed for the Herd.
     

    Offline lovetheherd2

    Re: It's the schedule, stupid...
    « Reply #48 on: May 26, 2014, 07:00:13 PM »
  • [Like]0
  • [Dislike]0
  • Sturt, coming up with ideas and posting them on a message board is the epitome of doing nothing, especially when it centers around ideas that would never be implemented even if someone in authority got ahold of them.

    There is only one way the average fan can make any difference to a college sports program, by giving them as much money as you can (and convince others to do the same).  Well, I guess there is a second thing, have a son, spend countless time and money to develop him into the best athlete you possibly can, and then make sure he attends the school you support.

    Unimplementable ideas, and the endless recounting of those ideas, has no value.

    Banker, you speak the truth. Without the finances, the political clout and people with passion to secure the vision, all the suggestions and ideas are not going to do the job.

    Fortunately, we have Hamrick And Mayor of Huntington working together to try to move forward.

    Mike Hamrick's efforts to bring new donors or increase long time donors seems to have had an impact. But without continued effort, the progress will stall. FB has made very good progress, Bb has an opportunity. But DAHERDBOY pointed out the need for tennis court finishing refurbishing and baseball is the next big ticket price.

    If Stuart's well researched ideas and suggestions get helped by his efforts to increase funding, we will all benefit. Otherwise, they will wither on the vine like many ideas before his came forth.

    I am looking forward to fall FB & BB practice to add variety to the endless arguments and ideas without the support to make them work.

    JMHO....
     

    Offline _sturt_

    Re: It's the schedule, stupid...
    « Reply #49 on: May 26, 2014, 07:00:57 PM »
  • [Like]0
  • [Dislike]0
  • We have shared the same stance on subjects in the past, but I will say that just because someone reads (be it an uneccessarily long post on a sports message board, or a book), and thinks, and does, will not make them better than anyone else or even make them a doer, let alone "all that matter". What it will do is end up making them alone. I was writing that to let you know if you would actually like others to consider your ideas, make them more concise. You will lose their interest when they see the post take up the whole page and move on in the discussion. Leaving you feeling like you have achieved a superior and undebatable point of view and post, and them feeling like they don't even care enough to discuss it further.

    My guess is that we can take this up in a PM discussion with more success, 24. I still get this strong sense that you're operating on the assumption that popularity ought to be prized. Let me try to put it this way... if I'm writing in an about a politically-charged issue in an environment where there's a wide audience, it naturally should matter much more to me the feedback I receive from people who are widely read on the topic than the masses who are not--some of whom even take pride in how little tolerance they have for reading. I'd truly just as soon the latter not read. And it's my opinion... because it's how I am, too... that the former are more likely to read when they see that there's some depth of thought that's been put into the endeavor. It's analogous to the same reason I'm one of those who appreciates the people who stay home from voting because they haven't cared enough to pay attention to the candidates' positions... leave it to the people who have cared enough, and we'll all be better off for it.

    Moving on to scheduling,  did you forget the last decade? Where we scheduled big....lost big... and it helped no one? Last year we won 10 games and suddenly we are back on the map. No one cares who we played, but the most die hard and analytical. We won 10 games, finished 29th. This yar we will surpass that as well. We have some quality teams on the schedule in the future.

    Bottom line:

    Our schedule is one of the weakest in the country. We will still be a top 15 team at years end and play in the access bowl if we go undefeated with no mwc or aac team being undefeated. Putting OSU on the schedule and finishing 12-1 does not help us. Beating them and going 13-0, would no help us. We would still get the access bowl and nothing more. That is realistically our ceiling. We can make that road harder, yes, but it still ends there. Which begs to question, why would you want to take a bus, then walk, hathen climb a mountain to get to your destination, when you could get on a helicopter and fly straight there for the same cost? (Yes, the helicopter is the easy schedule and the other is scheduling tough)

    We have some obvious differences of opinion, but even so, I'm not sure, given your assertions, that my position is clear to you.

    For instance, where did I say we should "schedule big?"

    All I'm saying is what seemingly is obvious... our in-conference schedule, even comparing last year to this year, has taken a real hit... and that we need to somehow compensate for that. (You and I previously agreed, I believe, that we're essentially a leftover CUSA team that ended up in a Sun Belt-level group.) I've left it open to discussion how we achieve that.

    We wholly agree that the CFP bowl is the holy grail for the foreseeable future. Not the actual playoff, given the constraints, but also not merely the top 25. We will be and should be measured by how often, if ever, we can claim that bowl berth.

    But here's where we definitely disagree...

    It's well understood by now that I've tried to objectively look at the numbers going back to our CUSA entry year, 2005. Not only is there little-to-no support for your opinion that an undefeated team arising from the caliber of conference that is the new CUSA (ie, a cut above Sun Belt, but below MAC) will be ranked ahead of a one-loss AAC or MWC team... moreover... there's some pretty good reason to believe that a AAC or MWC team with a two-loss margin, depending on their OOC opponents, would still beat us out of the CFP bowl. Our conference is just that weak in comparison.

    But you have a saving grace. Potentially.

    As you probably realize, the whole system is turned on its head this year. Whatever the BCS computers spit out before is irrelevant.

    So, I have to say there's a chance you could be right. There's certainly going to be greater subjectivity by anyone's measure.

    But then again, who knows (?!?).. maybe that subjectivity works for us... or maybe it works against us... after all, we have to acknowledge that there's a chance that the committee will be analytical and will care about the weakness of our schedule, and/or will have a bias for AAC and MWC schools from the start that seeps into their votes, and/or will have bowl officials in their ear talking up the schools they believe are going to travel best.

    All I want is for us to be in a position to get equal consideration. If a AAC or MWC team, or even MAC team, is genuinely better, I have no complaint. Where I have complaint is the high possibility that we have a better team, but because we couldn't prove it on the field by virtue of the lack of credible competition, we get overlooked. That's why I'm not scared of an arrangement that puts us in competition with a MAC champ to get to that equal consideration... if we deserve it, we'll beat that team, after all. As fans, we do our players a disservice to twiddle our thumbs as-if we did all we could when all we actually did was tell them to "just win baby." We need to be proactive and get this thing resolved. Too late for the 2014 team, but we've got several years in front of us, and it's just a cop-out if we fail to come together and make some noise toward getting something done.
     

    HerdFans.com

    Re: It's the schedule, stupid...
    « Reply #49 on: May 26, 2014, 07:00:57 PM »