Topic: Newest proposal to ratchet up our CUSA 3.0 schedule

[_sturt_]

Would be implemented for 2016-2020 (following UMass' 2015 departure, and for a trial period of 5 years)

- 6 intradivision games (as normal)

- 1 interdivision game vs. opposite division equivalent rank (ie, if Marshall is #1 in East after 6 division games, we play #1 CUSA West team)

- 1 game vs. MAC East equivalent rank (ie, if Marshall's #1 in division after 7 conference games, we play #1 MAC East)

- 1 game vs. MAC West equivalent rank


(It's noted that the MAC will have 12 schools, and CUSA 14, so to compensate for the two #7 schools not having dance partners, each season CUSA would contract with two schools, preferably Sun Belt, but possibly FCS, to fill those voids unless/until MAC would expand again.)

Why we do it
a) The obvious: Our division schedule, at least for these first years in CUSA 3.0, isn't pretty, and as a result, the likelihood of our having opportunity to snag the CFP bowl isn't pretty either.

And so, this replaces the two CUSA interdivision games that potentially rotates a good team into playing against one or two bad ones with three against teams that have a similar-quality record... so for almost any year, this would help in-part to mitigate the lesser division schedule, and potentially substantially so, depending on how the AD deals with the three other OOC slots.

b) At least at Marshall, heck, we appear to be committed to playing 1-2 MAC teams every season anyhow... might as well modify it so that we're making the best use of those games, adding certainty in upgrading our schedule.

[HerdInChicago]

CUSA should not play MAC schools...we should play the AAC or Big 5 conference schools.

To play games against MAC would "suggest" we are a comparable conference to the MAC...

We have better schools, budgets, coaches and programs.

While the MAC has featured some good schools over the past several years...CUSA is still the better conference...

Moreover, if we play games against MAC schools, we would have to "share" our TV revenue...thus, CUSA schools would receive less revenue.

Mike...GO HERD!!!!

[kjh]

CUSA should not play MAC schools...we should play the AAC or Big 5 conference schools.

To play games against MAC would "suggest" we are a comparable conference to the MAC...

We have better schools, budgets, coaches and programs.

While the MAC has featured some good schools over the past several years...CUSA is still the better conference...

Moreover, if we play games against MAC schools, we would have to "share" our TV revenue...thus, CUSA schools would receive less revenue.


Mike...GO HERD!!!!
Agree Mike. This infatuation some have with the MAC is mind boggling. Let it go. Try this with the MW or ACC. 

[MUsince96]

Phil? Hey, Phil? Phil! Phil Connors? Phil Connors, I thought that was you!

[banker]

For all you know, that could be exactly how this year plays out with our schedule with the exception of playing the #1 MAC west team and yet you think our schedule is not sufficient.

As we have discussed before, how do you play three different teams on one weeks notice?  Do you realize that the staff is cutting up film and game planning weeks in advance for opponents?  Take UTSA as an example.  They run a different offense than anyone else we played last year with their multiple option look. We were running specific drills in fall camp to address what they did so that the players could pick it back up quicker during game week prep.  How do you do things like that when you don't even know who you'll be playing for 25% of your schedule until a week before you play them? What about the logistics, and additional costs, for not booking travel plans until the last minute?  Who picks up that cost?

[QuickStrike]

I would only like a yearly MAC game against Ohio.  No thanks to any others. 

[MUther]

Those games he's proposing do not affect OOC schedule.  We can still schedule all the Purdues and Louisvilles we want.  What it does do is replace playing a weak UAB, for instance, when they move to the west and whoever else is on the bottom with the number one east and west seeds of the MAC instead.  Our SoS doesn't take a hit from the bottom of the conference in the west division.  Instead it gets a boost from the two TOP teams in the MAC and the TOP team in CUSA West.  It would most certainly be advantageous over a fixed schedule of CUSA West teams when we could draw the three bottom teams with no way of knowing they were gonna be bad. 

The one drawback is the West looks to be strong top to bottom most years except UAB after 2014.  The East however will be MU, MTSU, maybe FAU, and that's it for I'm guessing 4-5 years.  Western teams would benefit from Sturt's scenario much more than us for a while, keeping FIU and Charlotte off their schedule.  But we ONLY stand to GAIN by his method, either way.

[firstate]

I think we need to put our big boy shorts on and play one game away, every year, at a big venue like we used to do.

Paychecks are good too....

[iherdya]

I think we need to put our big boy shorts on and play one game away, every year, at a big venue like we used to do.

Paychecks are good too....

$850k or so for playing a big boy game, or $15m+ for playing in the big bowls...yeah, I like pay checks...

[BHFIOHIO]

yeah but what if the only loss UCF has is a 7 point shortcoming at Missouri? With a win over Houston and Penn St and 11 and 1 the selection people might not pick the Herd. The schedule strength thingy already mentioned by that committee. We were not to blame this yr but at least one better game a yr needs to be scheduled. To get that 15 mil you have to be selected by Luck and his cronies.

[iherdya]

I just don't get why people want us to schedule a game that we'd be underdogs, and in a lot of cases significant underdogs. Quick math says since we moved up we are 5-27 against P5 teams, and only 3-23 against P5 teams with a winning record. Our wins were 2003 K-State, a 7-6 Big East Louisville team, and a 7-6 ACC Maryland team.

[whf]

THe till is better filled with a good game than a weak bowl, which is where we always go.  I'd rather play a good P5 team once a year, make that my fall travel event and forget making $15K average on a bowl and thinking I did a good job of managing the money.

[IM4DHERD]

Our SOS was severely hurt by Louisville (home game in '14) having to re-schedule due to move to ACC...Us or Notre Dame?

Conceptually it is an interesting scenario, but logistically it is impossible.  OOC sheduling becomes a nightmare and restrictive because (I assume, but at a glance) all OOC games have to occur before starting conference play so that all MAC and CUSA members finish division play on the same week.  Then each MAC and CUSA team has to play all their respective division members to determine who plays who cross-division in what effectively becomes a CUSA championship game (not a real championship game which brings a lot of TV money) in week 10.  

Then it's not just CUSA #1 East playing CUSA #1 West then #1 East MAC then #1 West MAC, but #2 vs #2 vs #2, vs #2 and #3 vs #3, ad naseum.  You have not just 2-4 teams not knowing travel plans (hotels, meals, flights for 100+/-) and opponents week to week, but 26 to 28 teams, not to mention fans.  

TV would have no say pre-season in who they will be scheduling and further would have little interest in most any games except the #1s vs. #1s.  Additionally, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer as the best rise to the top and program changing upsets do not occur as #6 is stuck playing #6.

We would have 6 in-division games, 1 cross-division, 2 vs MAC and 3 OOC games with no championship game. Maximum of 12 games plus a bowl.

Again, fun to think about, but it just wouldn't work.

[BHFIOHIO]

I was posting only about what I think it might take to be  considered for the access bowl. CUSA champs and HOD vs Big10 or Big 12 and I am happy. I like be favored in every game as we should be this yr but it might not impress the committee.

[IM4DHERD]

Just like with the top 5 or so battling to get into the true playoff, we need some help.  Even 12-1 could get us in if the rest of the Group of 5 stumble.

Cincy, Houston, UCF, etc. could all lose a couple/few. 

[BHFIOHIO]

I haven't looked at Mtn West, MAC or Sunbelt much..yet, but Cincy is a very long shot and UCF prob a little the best team but harder schedule than Houston and the Coogs have almost everyone back from an 8 win team. Their young QB looked pretty good last yr and I just saw somewhere he has a top rated receiver too. They lost by 5 at Orlando last yr...which is better than Baylor did maybe.

[BHFIOHIO]

ULL won 9 games last yr and return 17 starters. Their only competition should be at Boise and at Ol Miss.

[goherd24]

I would only like a yearly MAC game against Ohio.  No thanks to any others. 

This.

[Sam-I-am]

Phil? Hey, Phil? Phil! Phil Connors? Phil Connors, I thought that was you!

LOL

[BHFIOHIO]

"Its gonna be cold, its gonna be gray and its gonna last you the rest of your life" Murray - Groundhog Day

[banker]

Last year UCF played Penn State, South Carolina, Houston, Louisville, and Cincinnati in addition to the rest of the AAC schedule. NIU played Purdue and Iowa and a MAC schedule. Going in to the bowl game UCF had a SOS of 95 and NIU was 115.  Not that much different and not enough of a distinction to put an 11-1 UCF in the access bowl over a 12-0 NIU. If that had been this year and NIU hadn't choked the MACC they would have gotten the spot over UCF.

[_sturt_]

Our SOS was severely hurt by Louisville (home game in '14) having to re-schedule due to move to ACC...Us or Notre Dame?

Conceptually it is an interesting scenario, but logistically it is impossible.  OOC sheduling becomes a nightmare and restrictive because (I assume, but at a glance) all OOC games have to occur before starting conference play so that all MAC and CUSA members finish division play on the same week.  Then each MAC and CUSA team has to play all their respective division members to determine who plays who cross-division in what effectively becomes a CUSA championship game (not a real championship game which brings a lot of TV money) in week 10.  

Then it's not just CUSA #1 East playing CUSA #1 West then #1 East MAC then #1 West MAC, but #2 vs #2 vs #2, vs #2 and #3 vs #3, ad naseum.  You have not just 2-4 teams not knowing travel plans (hotels, meals, flights for 100+/-) and opponents week to week, but 26 to 28 teams, not to mention fans.  

TV would have no say pre-season in who they will be scheduling and further would have little interest in most any games except the #1s vs. #1s.  Additionally, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer as the best rise to the top and program changing upsets do not occur as #6 is stuck playing #6.

We would have 6 in-division games, 1 cross-division, 2 vs MAC and 3 OOC games with no championship game. Maximum of 12 games plus a bowl.

Again, fun to think about, but it just wouldn't work.

Waited to see what all would get posted here, and this is the most substantive reply by some margin. Thanks, IM4.

Some follow-up notes...

- Logistically it is already done. "Complicated?" Okay. "Impossible?" Not at all accurate.

- There would be a self-standing championship game... it's not exactly uncommon for a conference's best teams to play each other both in the regular season and in the championship game... eg, MU/Toledo, MU/Western Michigan during the Pruett years.

- Every team has opportunity every season in those 6 conference division games to frame their journey for the last 3.

- TV chooses games every season not knowing how good Team X or Y will be the first weekend of November... and it's not like they exclusively pick up teams that had winning seasons the previous season. This just reverses all that... instead of knowing the team, they select and broadcast teams according to their eventual ranking in their conference. Having said that, of course, I'm wading into an area here that I don't have very much expertise to draw upon. It's the most legit criticism of the idea, but then again, it only applies to 3 games of the 12.

[_sturt_]

Those games he's proposing do not affect OOC schedule.  We can still schedule all the Purdues and Louisvilles we want.  What it does do is replace playing a weak UAB, for instance, when they move to the west and whoever else is on the bottom with the number one east and west seeds of the MAC instead.  Our SoS doesn't take a hit from the bottom of the conference in the west division.  Instead it gets a boost from the two TOP teams in the MAC and the TOP team in CUSA West.  It would most certainly be advantageous over a fixed schedule of CUSA West teams when we could draw the three bottom teams with no way of knowing they were gonna be bad. 

The one drawback is the West looks to be strong top to bottom most years except UAB after 2014.  The East however will be MU, MTSU, maybe FAU, and that's it for I'm guessing 4-5 years.  Western teams would benefit from Sturt's scenario much more than us for a while, keeping FIU and Charlotte off their schedule.  But we ONLY stand to GAIN by his method, either way.

Wait... what's this? An endorsement? What? You sure?

I'm just not used to this.

More seriously, thanks, MUther, for reading and absorbing, and for stepping up and bothering to post.

Ya know, I get PMs and Facebook messages every now and then responding positively to something I've said here, but it's great to have the occasional post right here that says "wait... hey... this makes some sense."

[MUther]

I love reading posts like this and speculating or critiquing.  My only issue with anything you ever write is when you drive a point into the ground on 57 posts that most people have already accepted as common sense, i.e. our conference and schedule are not optimal for getting the access bowl.  Pretty much everyone knows this.  Do they want to be reminded of it daily?  Do they want to be lambasted for trying to make lemonade from lemons? 

Ideas for solutions are much more interesting to kill time in the off-season than beating the dead horse.


PS sometimes people only disagree with you to watch you go into hyper post mode.  It can be entertaining.  I don't do that.  I try to agree or disagree on the points, sometimes giving in out of exhaustion from a counterpoint being met with a wall of text.  Is there such a thing as a forum fillibuster?

[FlyHawk98]

I would only like a yearly MAC game against Ohio.  No thanks to any others. 

I would love a yearly game with Ohio every year. I'm also ok with 1 other MAC team here and there.