Topic: When did we all come to the realization that anything except #1 is failure???...

[backontrack]

I recall in my very-distant youth that teams who had winning records were considered successful...even Woody Hayes got a pass at 6-3 or 7-2 (imagine--a nine-game schedule), and much was made about the winning streak of twenty seasons from '84-'03...at some point the mind set changed to where unless you WIN IT ALL the team has failed...I'm not saying that finishing at the top isn't a worthy goal (after all, that's why we keep score), and obviously seasons like last year's men's hoops are completely unacceptable... but when folks are gnashing their teeth about the fact that 14-0 might not be enough to get us to the Peach/Orange/Sugar/Whatever Bowl then I wonder I'll have to put a black mark next to Football 2014 regardless...I was just hoping that some of you could set me straight...

[_sturt_]

Good question. I'm intrigued to read the responses.

[herdfan429]

Two words. Mark Snyder

[MarshallGrad]

...I was just hoping that some of you could set me straight...

I believe the basis for what you are talking about, as it relates to Marshall, is a strong desire to have highly successful sports program to eleveate stature of the Univeristy across the country. Some programs have the benefit of playing on a national stage with a three loss record. For anyone hoping that football can be the force that might raise Marshall to that bigger stage of awareness, it would take a zero loss record.

If there was no connection between the fooball program and a desire to elevate Marshall to broader national prominance, then I think you would see more fans looking at three losses and the lower rung bowl appearance as reasonable annual result. For any fans that are hoping football can be the source for brader national prominance, they know that won't happen with three losses.

I am not arguing for or against that view, but it is the basis for most perspectives that want football to be the thing that brings greater awareness to Marshall on a national level. That national prominance won't come from Heap Big Beef Bowl and three losses.

[2xBison]

When we saw the 2014 schedule and saw what was left of CUSA

[goherd24]

13-0, if we are 14-0 we won the bowl too.

Fans at Marshall have a higher standard than alot of teams. I believe we want our team to succeed and we know it can be done. All those title game appearances in the 90s and penningtons team, followed by leftwich, conditioned us to winning.

Im my eyes, this is a very good thing. Id much rather have expectations of winning and beimg mumber 1 each season than lets just get to a bowl. Usually people wil fall short of their goals, if the goal is a bowl game, we will have a lot of 5-7 seasons. Ifnit is undefeated and #1, we either get there or maybe gon10-2 or so. High expectations yield high results and accountability to the coaching staff. 

[HerdFanJ]

If you ain't first, you're last.

[Greg H]

I think winning about 58/60 of the home games in your new stadium will do that to you.  15 win seasons too. 

Also, VERY few teams have had an undefeated season in the modern era.  We have.  I think anytime that happens, it sets up expecations, some of which may not be realistic.

[luvherd]

Well as my old buddy said if we aren't playing to win, take that damn scoreboard done. This ain't Little League.

[svherd]

Yeah, but will we see FIRE DOC posts if we go 11-1 or 10-2 in the regular season?

[W0lfman]

based on what we did in the bowl game, schedule for 2014 and what we had returning.  Perfection getting to the bowl game is what we should expect.

[HerdnClt]

based on what we did in the bowl game, schedule for 2014 and what we had returning.  Perfection getting to the bowl game is what we should expect.

Bingo!

[goherd24]

Yeah, but will we see FIRE DOC posts if we go 11-1 or 10-2 in the regular season?

If we go 10-2 against this schedule with this talent level. Im nto sure that isn't 100% because of his coaching. Remember he was still on the hot seat last year until the maryland win. A 9-5 season would have been a huge disappointment. 11-1 while winning cusa and our bowl game is the least any of us should accept next year.

[svherd]

based on what we did in the bowl game, schedule for 2014 and what we had returning.  Perfection getting to the bowl game is what we should expect.

No question. BUT if we don't achieve that, is anything less acceptable? We went 10-2 many years in the MAC and people seemed happy.

[goherd24]

No question. BUT if we don't achieve that, is anything less acceptable? We went 10-2 many years in the MAC and people seemed happy.

See post above. In the MAC we had some strong competition,  similar to ecu and ucf still being in cusa and maybe tulsa with the toledos and miami oh and bowling green etc back then. They were certainly much tougher competiton than we will face this year. And we arguably have the most talented team this seasom than we have ever seen at MU. It is definitely as good as 99 or 96 on paper. But can we execute and have the leadership to realize our dreams? We will see. I worry greatly about our road games.

[HaveUherd]

Yeah, but will we see FIRE DOC posts if we go 11-1 or 10-2 in the regular season?

Did Extragreen quit posting? I think I would if I was that wrong about something.

[MUther]

Yeah, but will we see FIRE DOC posts if we go 11-1 or 10-2 in the regular season?

I don't think FIRE DOC posts, but then again it has a lot to do with who we lose to.  If we lose to Ohio again at home, it's gonna make for a pretty disappointing year no matter what.  Dropping any game early would kill the hope of an access bowl and that would last all season.  I think if we drop a road game late people won't take it so hard and they won't have to live with it for as long.  I believe we have the talent and schedule advantage over everyone else we play or compete against.  That really only leaves coaching/preparedness.

[QuickStrike]

Yeah, but will we see FIRE DOC posts if we go 11-1 or 10-2 in the regular season?

Man I hope it doesn't come close to that.  We have a very favorable schedule this season.  We are getting pre-season top 25 votes because we are expected to win them all.  This season will show if Doc has progressed as a head coach.  I don't want to see anymore deer in the headlights looks on the sidelines while we are blowing a game we should win.  We absolutely have to quit blowing winnable games.  Seriously....what team should beat us on the schedule where we should give Doc a pass?  Now the C-USA Championship game and our bowl game could be 2 games where we are matched up against a good opponent where the outcome could be questionable.  In those cases I think the fans will accept any outcome as long as we are competitive in those games.

[_sturt_]

...We are getting pre-season top 25 votes...

Excuse me? Did I miss a poll already?

[QuickStrike]

Excuse me? Did I miss a poll already?

[Greg H]

We need to dial back the delusion a bit.  "Expecting" to go undefeated, no matter who you are and where you play, is silly.  The same is true of dogging a coach who "fails" in the bid to go undefeated.  12-1 or 11-2 with a conference championship is still a highly sucessful season for ANYONE, but especially a school like ours with such limited resources.  %^&* happens.  And because that's true, going undefeated is incredibly hard.  Did anyone really blame Saban for the loss to Auburn in the manner they did?  Of course not.
Noone serious anyway.

We SHOULD win no less than 11 RS games.  But we will face a good team in the championship and ALL great seasons run into big time obstacles at some point. 
Losing 1-2 doesn't mean we/doc suck(s).  It means %^&* happens.  We are not Alabama...and how often do they win them all?

[_sturt_]

...We are not Alabama...and how often do they win them all?

Fallacious.

They play in the SEC... a conference of relative peers.

Really, to make your assertion work, we'd have to see a bunch of old Big East teams replace a bunch of SEC teams such that only the old Big East teams inhabited their division... and theeeeeennnnn suggest that it's awfully high expectation to think they could win them all because poopoo happens.

[MarshallGrad]

We are not Alabama...and how often do they win them all?

One of the stregth of schedule rankings out has us at 122 easiest out of 128. For all intents and purposes we have about as easy as any FBS schedule could be. Now, at the same time, we have read over and over that Doc is a madman of a great recruiter and has assembled more talent on this team than any previous Marshall team.....ever.  It is a perfect storm of circumstances when you have the apparently best talent on the field that you have ever assemnbled and you are playing the least difficult schedule you have ever played. Is there ever a scenario when expecting to go undefeated is realistic? Yes, best talent ever, easiest schedule ever. Is it the best ever? I have to defer to the forum talent gurus on this one. Is it the easiest schedule ever.....that is not a stretch of an argument to make.

[goherd24]

One of the stregth of schedule rankings out has us at 122 easiest out of 128. For all intents and purposes we have about as easy as any FBS schedule could be. Now, at the same time, we have read over and over that Doc is a madman of a great recruiter and has assembled more talent on this team than any previous Marshall team.....ever.  It is a perfect storm of circumstances when you have the apparently best talent on the field that you have ever assemnbled and you are playing the least difficult schedule you have ever played. Is there ever a scenario when expecting to go undefeated is realistic? Yes, best talent ever, easiest schedule ever. Is it the best ever? I have to defer to the forum talent gurus on this one. Is it the easiest schedule ever.....that is not a stretch of an argument to make.

Agree 100%. I can't see us losing to anyone this year. However, doc is 8-18 on the road and I also don't see him going 6-0 this year. Chances are, we blow a game on the road. Which one? Who knows. But if it is a tight race in the conference and that loss potentially loses home field in the cusa championship, this season could turn from the potentially best ever to potentially the most disappointing season ever. Even at 11-2. Most of us realize that this is the year. It is unlikely we see another Cato type QB for another decade, we have to translate that into an historic season while we can. It will absolutely come down to coaching and leadership, the talent is unquestiomably thete, along with a cupcake schedule. We don't need to shock the world or play above our heads, if we play to 80% of our ability, we will win all these games.

[svherd]

I think our 99 schedule was rated 112 out of a then 119 teams.