Topic: OK I will be the 1st.

[s1uggo]

In the 90's, we didnt have a chicken athletic staff vaginafying schedules. Our whole football department carried that "anybody, anytime, anywhere" attitude. We went into Clemson, South Carolina, WvU with that swagger. it didnt matter. we scheduled them and we thought we would win every one of them.

Also there was growth. There were Signs of life other than buildings being built. They went from 1AA to 1A in that decade. They wanted to grow, not just settle in and be snug and hope they get ranked because they beat up on the little sisters of the poor yearly. Lots of rumors swirled about Hamrick and the American Conference. We'll leave that one alone though.

I say it's time to bring back Bobby P!!!!

[iherdya]

In the 90's, we didnt have a chicken athletic staff vaginafying schedules. Our whole football department carried that "anybody, anytime, anywhere" attitude. Also there was growth. There were Signs of life other than buildings being built. They went from 1AA to 1A in that decade. They wanted to grow, not just settle in and be snug and hope they get ranked because they beat up on the little sisters of the poor yearly. Lots of rumors swirled about Hamrick and the American Conference. We'll leave that one alone though.

in 1998 we played 1 top 75 sagarin ranked team in the regular season. in 1999 we played 2 top 75 sagarin teams in the regular season.

so, the only reason we went 25-1 in those two years was because of our poor schedule. we really don't know how good we were back then, we just played such a bad schedule.

and fwiw, the whole anybody, anytime, anywhere thing was (bleep). in 97-99, we played a mediocre wvu team, a bad army team, an fcs school, a horrendous south carolina team, a fcs team, another fcs team, a good clemson team, a fcs team, and a horrendous temple team.

[Big Ol' Hillbilly]

in 1998 we played 1 top 75 sagarin ranked team in the regular season. in 1999 we played 2 top 75 sagarin teams in the regular season.

so, the only reason we went 25-1 in those two years was because of our poor schedule. we really don't know how good we were back then, we just played such a bad schedule.

and fwiw, the whole anybody, anytime, anywhere thing was bull%^&*. in 97-99, we played a mediocre wvu team, a bad army team, an fcs school, a horrendous south carolina team, a fcs team, another fcs team, a good clemson team, a fcs team, and a horrendous temple team.

They were still leaping forward rather than settling. They wanted to grow and get into bigger conferences and make themselves a household name, not just play powderpuff against the old sunbelt and tell themselves and their fan base how wonderful they are and how this is where they need to stay. When the American raided cusa a couple of years ago, old Holland from ECU did everything to get his program there. Hamrick set back and told the marshall fans how much better these sunbelt  and programs 2 years old are. Settling and being scared to death of growth. Southern wv in a nutshell.

[herdman]

Maybe I'm totally wrong and Seider, Hartley, and Ratliff's departures were not what's to blame for our decline in recruiting. Maybe it's the fact that kids don't want to play the worst team in the Big 10,  1 FBS school and the Mac east for their out of conference schedule, then play against the newer, crappier CUSA in conference.

BINGO. We are what we are. A watered down CUSA team that plays a horrid schedule.

[ShawHerd]

Are you saying that WVU didn't play Liberty? Ohio State doesn't play MAC teams and the list goes on. Their players must hate that. Schedule is taken into consideration because there were three other teams that only had one loss last year, Ohio St, TCU, and Florida ST. It seems the top three teams are all a huge step above all the rest of the Top 25.

Life is short be a fan of your team and enjoy or change your allegiance and enjoy. There will also be seasons to bitch about no matter where you are.  We would love to have the following and reputation of Va Tech. Can you believe many Va Tech fans are not happy? However they beat the #1 team in the country in 2014.

[herdman]

My theory is this.

Doc was at a mediocre record after 3 years.  So, they started watering the schedule down to get wins. Both are good for the AD and football coach. CUSA became much weaker after several teams left which also played right into that hand.

MU fans are being fleeced somewhat and lured into a false sense of security and how good the program actually is.

[ShawHerd]

Yep and you can thank WVU's Oliver Luck for that.

[Big Ol' Hillbilly]

Are you saying that WVU didn't play Liberty? Ohio State doesn't play MAC teams and the list goes on. Their players must hate that.

Please tell me you're joking. Please.... I literally spit coffee across the room when I read that.

You do realize that after those teams are finished with Liberty, those Mac schools, etc in September, they go on to spend October and November competing against the Michigan States, the Oklahomas, the Baylors, the TCUs of the college football world, not the UTSAs, Charlottes, Old Dominions, etc. you do follow sports enough to realize that, correct?

[Big Ol' Hillbilly]

Yep and you can thank WVU's Oliver Luck for that.

You honestly think that Oliver Luck was so powerful that he convinced the whole committee that Marshall shouldn't be ranked in their poll because their schedule was horrible? OMG, you just need to quit now, bub. You're as delusional as I've ever came across. I don't think Oliver luck needed to do any brainwashing. I think if the committee was made up of Stevie Wonder, Ray Charles and Ronnie Milsap, they would've been able to see that Marshall's schedule was weaker than the other 1 loss g5 schools. They wouldn't even need Luck to brain wash them.

[jstherd]

Like it or not, Big Ol Hillbilly has great points about the current status pf our program. Recruiting in the last two classes (15 and assumning 16 so far), the talent level has fallen significantly. Next year, and maybe 17 to some extent, we'll be okay. After that, when the current weak schedules fade away, we'll suffer. Football, and most sports, are personnel driven. Currently, via rankings of three recruiting services, Marshall ranks 19th in G5 recruiting. There's still time. However, recruiting needs to take a jump.

[ShawHerd]

In spite of our watered down schedule we have been ranked in the top 25 teams. Why does WVU not want to play us? Why do teams not want to schedule us? Could it be because there is a respect for us and we could beat them? Could it be we are not interested in one and dones? I'm sure we are at a point where we would play one for ones and play any one in the country. Do you wonder why the Purdue game brought so many fans, could it be that fans and players want P-5 teams in the Joan? You'll never see P-5 teams here on a regular basis because it is not beneficial for them. Maybe we need to do the one and dones for the money and recognition ,if we win. No matter whether we win or lose there will be MU fans that will not be happy. It always astounds me why unhappy MU fans don't come up with the answers to their questions. Pointing fingers is so easy to do.

[ShawHerd]

"You're as delusional as I've ever came across"

lol! Getting frustrated are you? Lets stick to the topic instead of personal jabs. Every discussion has counterpoints. I just don't happen to agree with every thing you say as you don't with me.

[Big Ol' Hillbilly]

In spite of our watered down schedule we have been ranked in the top 25 teams. Why does WVU not want to play us? Why do teams not want to schedule us? Could it be because there is a respect for us and we could beat them? Could it be we are not interested in one and dones? I'm sure we are at a point where we would play one for ones and play any one in the country. Do you wonder why the Purdue game brought so many fans, could it be that fans and players want P-5 teams in the Joan? You'll never see P-5 teams here on a regular basis because it is not beneficial for them. Maybe we need to do the one and dones for the money and recognition ,if we win. No matter whether we win or lose there will be MU fans that will not be happy. It always astounds me why unhappy MU fans don't come up with the answers to their questions. Pointing fingers is so easy to do.

Sorry, but the AP Poll, coach's poll, espn poll or any other poll does not matter any longer. We can be ranked on them until we turn blue and it won't matter. Sucks but true. The committee and their poll is the only one that amounts to a hill of beans in the long run. Scheduling powder puff out of conference while plying in a powder puff conference is not going to earn you the respect of the committee.

Last year when everyone was blaming Oliver Luck, and saying his voice in the committee was why we weren't getting ranked by the committee was down right embarrassing. It wasn't wvu's athletic director's fault we weren't being ranked, it was Marshall's athletic director's fault. Y'all can praise him all you want for all the pretty buildings he is getting built, but he's sacrificing building a dynasty to build buildings.

And also, if you really think that teams are afraid to play us, you're more delusional than I thought. LOL I need to quit drinking coffee when I read your crap.

[Big Ol' Hillbilly]

"You're as delusional as I've ever came across"

lol! Getting frustrated are you? Lets stick to the topic instead of personal jabs. Every discussion has counterpoints. I just don't happen to agree with every thing you say as you don't with me.

Nope, not getting frustrated and for the most part, I'm staying on the topic. I'm just saying that saying things like that these bigger schools are afraid to play us because we could beat them and that Oliver Luck was the reason we weren't ranked by the committee, etc etc etc is delusional.

Big schools are not "afraid" of us because we beat up on rhode island and old dominion. We are not Boise St. Had a chance to be but we screwed to pooch about 11 or 12 years ago.

[Big Ol' Hillbilly]

"You're as delusional as I've ever came across"

Oh, and it also appears that you are the one becoming frustrated and going away from the topic seeing as how you are resorting to spelling/grammar smack.

[chris88]

My theory is this.

Doc was at a mediocre record after 3 years.  So, they started watering the schedule down to get wins. Both are good for the AD and football coach. CUSA became much weaker after several teams left which also played right into that hand.

MU fans are being fleeced somewhat and lured into a false sense of security and how good the program actually is.

People are entitled to opinions, but this absurd.  I'm sure Doc and MH knew exactly how realignment would work out and ECU, UCF and others would be gone.  They had to know SM's program would go through a real rough period after Fedora bolted. They knew WVU would refuse to play us anymore on any kind of equal footing. They also knew the Louisville would jump to ACC sooner than expected and have to move our home game back a couple of years.  They knew season ticket holders and fans would be thrilled with only a 5 game home schedule in 2013 and/or 2014 so we could play a money game on road that would give us more national respect. In 2011 they knew Purdue wasn't going to be very good in 2015 and signed them to play at MU to water down the schedule.  They knew that Kent would lose Hazel and being going through a transition. MH schedules future series with Pitt, NC State, Navy, and ECU and 2 others soon to be announced because he knows they won't be good when we play them.  Beating a 7-5 MD and NI MAC Champ team that has won at least 11 games 5 straight years and took OSU and BC to wire last 2 weeks were watered down wins.  Come on.

To address other posters concerns as far as recruiting goes, lets wait and see how the 2016 class turns out.  When G5 schools sign guys early you shouldn't expect them to have a lot of big schools offers...especially OL.  The Durante LB and RB from Florida are probably 2 of better players this program has ever signed.  The Ashland and Point Pleasant kid could both play at a lot of good D1 schools....and when BG, WM etc start winning conf championships and bowl games than come back and we'll talk.

I do have some issues with our lack of creativity/adaptability on offense but I would hope Doc/Legg are wise enough to make those changes as WKY, SM, and MTSU are all very creative with overall talent to us.  In the past Kueck, McHale, Rippon etc were not very adaptive and it lead declining performance once teams catch on to what you do. Especially if you lose turnover battle...which we have done 7 of last 9 games. The OL will be fine once Van Horn returns and they clean up some of the assignment mistakes....those are more experience issues vs talent.

[s1uggo]

Please tell me you're joking. Please.... I literally spit coffee across the room when I read that.

You do realize that after those teams are finished with Liberty, those Mac schools, etc in September, they go on to spend October and November competing against the Michigan States, the Oklahomas, the Baylors, the TCUs of the college football world, not the UTSAs, Charlottes, Old Dominions, etc. you do follow sports enough to realize that, correct?

ah no.  Most if not all of the SEC plays some at the beginning and some at the end, for example Alabama plays Charleston Southern 11/21!!!  you can check the rest of the SEC's as you will see the same thing.

http://www.fbschedules.com/ncaa-15/sec/2015-alabama-crimson-tide-football-schedule.php

[IM4DHERD]

1999 - We were ranked #10 in the country with the 111th (Sagarin).

Hamrick did all he could to get us into the AAC.  Was told we don't have a hotel or restaurant worthy of making the trip.  Remember, they were snatching up markets before we did the same to backfill.

It is what it is.  Play who you play and beat them.

[ShawHerd]

"Nope, not getting frustrated and for the most part, I'm staying on the topic. I'm just saying that saying things like that these bigger schools are afraid to play us because we could beat them and that Oliver Luck was the reason we weren't ranked by the committee, etc etc etc is delusional."

So you're saying that Luck joined the committee because he didn't want to influence them? Lobbyist also don't influence Congress either?

Can you tell me why WVU won't play us but they will Liberty? We could play WVU and they keep all of their gate money and we could do the same. WVU's complaint could not be the money, so why wouldn't they play us? Their low overhead would be beneficial playing both games in WV.
,
....and finally why is the committee's ranking so different than the AP, Coaches and other polls, could it be about hoarding the bowl money?

[The Right Stuff]

You people need to pay attention to ShawHerd he knows what he speaketh.  We both have seen the black times and the crappy times.  Grow up and enjoy what you got.  Believe it or not we will never play in an access bowl.  Last year was the closest we will ever come and we still were not in the picture at the end.  To play in that bowl we would have to go undefeated and the beat the likes of an Alabama or Michigan State on their turf and that isn't going to happen folks.  Too many Herd fans are so preoccupied with this access bowl that they can't even enjoy the season.  As that famous hero of movie lore Warren Oates want said, "lighten up Francis".

TRS
MU 71

[bbcard1]

You people need to pay attention to ShawHerd he knows what he speaketh.  We both have seen the black times and the crappy times.  Grow up and enjoy what you got.  Believe it or not we will never play in an access bowl.  Last year was the closest we will ever come and we still were not in the picture at the end.  To play in that bowl we would have to go undefeated and the beat the likes of an Alabama or Michigan State on their turf and that isn't going to happen folks.  Too many Herd fans are so preoccupied with this access bowl that they can't even enjoy the season.  As that famous hero of movie lore Warren Oates want said, "lighten up Francis".

TRS
MU 71

I honestly do think we can get into the Access bowl, but a foregone conclusion that we will be seriously in the hunt in July every year robs us of some of the joy of the season. I think we are doing what we can to get back into the conversation…win a lot of games.  If you're going to play weaker competition and we win a lot of games it's ok. You'll get there in terms of some brand recognition on a national state.  Ball State was close to a big bowl payout a few years ago after losing to Kentucky. The way things are are not the way things will always be…just pile up the wins.

[herdman]

People are entitled to opinions, but this absurd.  I'm sure Doc and MH knew exactly how realignment would work out and ECU, UCF and others would be gone.  They had to know SM's program would go through a real rough period after Fedora bolted. They knew WVU would refuse to play us anymore on any kind of equal footing. They also knew the Louisville would jump to ACC sooner than expected and have to move our home game back a couple of years.  They knew season ticket holders and fans would be thrilled with only a 5 game home schedule in 2013 and/or 2014 so we could play a money game on road that would give us more national respect. In 2011 they knew Purdue wasn't going to be very good in 2015 and signed them to play at MU to water down the schedule.  They knew that Kent would lose Hazel and being going through a transition. MH schedules future series with Pitt, NC State, Navy, and ECU and 2 others soon to be announced because he knows they won't be good when we play them.  Beating a 7-5 MD and NI MAC Champ team that has won at least 11 games 5 straight years and took OSU and BC to wire last 2 weeks were watered down wins.  Come on.

To address other posters concerns as far as recruiting goes, lets wait and see how the 2016 class turns out.  When G5 schools sign guys early you shouldn't expect them to have a lot of big schools offers...especially OL.  The Durante LB and RB from Florida are probably 2 of better players this program has ever signed.  The Ashland and Point Pleasant kid could both play at a lot of good D1 schools....and when BG, WM etc start winning conf championships and bowl games than come back and we'll talk.

I do have some issues with our lack of creativity/adaptability on offense but I would hope Doc/Legg are wise enough to make those changes as WKY, SM, and MTSU are all very creative with overall talent to us.  In the past Kueck, McHale, Rippon etc were not very adaptive and it lead declining performance once teams catch on to what you do. Especially if you lose turnover battle...which we have done 7 of last 9 games. The OL will be fine once Van Horn returns and they clean up some of the assignment mistakes....those are more experience issues vs talent.

I stated they couldn't control the conference. They can control the OOC schedule while playing in a very weak conference.

I have no doubt they watered the schedule down. Purdue, NC State, ECU are not top or many time not even middle of the road teams. They are good not what we used to play.

Again, I firmly believe a lot of this is by design. If Doc played even Snyder's his record would likely look a lot different and would look different if CUSA was still in tact.

 

[bbcard1]

Mark was a proud son of Marshall but not a very good coach. We would be middle of the pack CUSA with him at the helm.

[gcherd]

Mark Snyder is the worst head coach in college football history; I did back-flips the day he was canned (resigned under pressure)...combined with the pathetic job done by Bob Marcum, the worst AD in history, Doc & his excellent staff had their work cut-out to bring us back to the Pruett days & that is exactly where we reached in 2013 & are continuing to climb. I look forward to defending our crown as C-USA Champs; Go Herd & We Are Marshall!

[herd2win]

Last year the fun of a great team got sucked out of us because of all the talk about the schedule...this year I am going to enjoy the ride...I predicted an 8-4 type of season losing Cato and that is probably going to happen...

I still have opinions about certain things but not going to let the schedule discussion play into my happiness of Herd football.