Topic: We are only successful because our SOS? That's a no.

[banker]

In 2013 and 2014 Boise State played a total of 14 teams that ended the season bowl eligible (at least 6 wins). In those 14 games they were 8-6. Overall 20-7.

In 2013 and 2014 Marshall played a total of 14 teams that ended the season bowl eligible (at least 6 wins). In those 14 games they were 9-5. Overall 23-5.

In 2013 and 2014 Northern Illinois played a total of 13 teams that ended the season bowl eligible (at least 6 wins). In those 13 games they were 8-5. Overall 23-5.

Here's what so many people seem to miss, every G5 team plays a bunch of easy games because there are a bunch of bad G5 teams in every G5 conference. I listed the three G5 teams that had the most success over the last two years and all three played almost exactly the same number of "quality teams", defined as teams that reached bowl eligibility. All three performed similarly against those teams, although Marshall was the best of the three.

So cry all you want about our success being falsely inflated. If you want to do that, please post an example of a G5 team with a more impressive resume over the last two years and support your argument.

[herd2win]

We are in the top 50% of all 1-A over the last 3 years... Last years team was easily a top 15 type of unit.  I know that the feeling Saturday felt so much better than a loss no matter who we played.

[HerdKelly]

You can talk about bowl eligible (remembering that 6-6 is bowl eligible) or you can look at the teams people actually played.

Just last year alone, Boise BEAT Colorado St, BYU, Arizona, and Nevada. They played and lost to Ole Miss. Every one of those teams was likely better than anyone on the schedule this year or last year.

[Greg H]

You can talk about bowl eligible (remembering that 6-6 is bowl eligible) or you can look at the teams people actually played.

Just last year alone, Boise BEAT Colorado St, BYU, Arizona, and Nevada. They played and lost to Ole Miss. Every one of those teams was likely better than anyone on the schedule this year or last year.

Does it make you feel important to be "right" about how your team sucks?

[HerdKelly]

Does it make you feel important to be "right" about how your team sucks?

NEVER said they sucked. But the schedule is a problem. I don't see why people argue that it isn't.

[ADub4Heisman]

Sigh.

I'm happier being 3-1 with this year's OOC slate than being 1-3 with a win over Hofstra and losses to wvu, Kansas State and Tennessee.

Next year's schedule is about as ideal as it will ever get. We can't help when teams we schedule 5 years in advance decide to suck.

[herd2win]

Last year CUSA ended up ranked higher than the AAC....

[backontrack]

OSU played a weaker-than-usual VPI, Hawaii, NIU, and WMU--and that's okay...we played Purdue, OU, Norfolk State, and Kent--and our own fans say we should be ashamed... ??? ??? ???...

[parshall2marshall]

I could only hope for a 10-1 ratio of negative karma on the board. No one would ever accuse of wearing the green shades.

p2m

[banker]

You can talk about bowl eligible (remembering that 6-6 is bowl eligible) or you can look at the teams people actually played.

Just last year alone, Boise BEAT Colorado St, BYU, Arizona, and Nevada. They played and lost to Ole Miss. Every one of those teams was likely better than anyone on the schedule this year or last year.

Well, La Tech ended last year ranked 34 by Sagarin.  Colorado St was 65, BYU was 56, Nevada was 90, and Arizona was, wait for it, 37. So La Tech was ranked higher than any of those teams, including Boise, who was 36th.  Heck, Rice was 69th, which is right there with CSU and we destroyed them while Boise squeaked by CSU. NIU was 72, a lot better than Nevada, and we destroyed them.

So let your personal perception support whatever misguided theory you have. I'll just stick to the facts.

[MUsince96]

Even though I'd like to see some better teams on the schedule (which we will next year). Banker is right, if winning this much was so easy every G5 team would do it.

[HerdnClt]

I could only hope for a 10-1 ratio of negative karma on the board. No one would ever accuse of wearing the green shades.

p2m

Enlightening?

[Thunders77]

In 2013 and 2014 Boise State played a total of 14 teams that ended the season bowl eligible (at least 6 wins). In those 14 games they were 8-6. Overall 20-7.

In 2013 and 2014 Marshall played a total of 14 teams that ended the season bowl eligible (at least 6 wins). In those 14 games they were 9-5. Overall 23-5.

In 2013 and 2014 Northern Illinois played a total of 13 teams that ended the season bowl eligible (at least 6 wins). In those 13 games they were 8-5. Overall 23-5.

Here's what so many people seem to miss, every G5 team plays a bunch of easy games because there are a bunch of bad G5 teams in every G5 conference. I listed the three G5 teams that had the most success over the last two years and all three played almost exactly the same number of "quality teams", defined as teams that reached bowl eligibility. All three performed similarly against those teams, although Marshall was the best of the three.

So cry all you want about our success being falsely inflated. If you want to do that, please post an example of a G5 team with a more impressive resume over the last two years and support your argument.

Here is something to add to that argument. As much as the Power 5 conferences talk about their strength, very few Power 5 teams play strong non-conference schedules and thus it makes it rather difficult to truly judge the strength of one conference over another - However, that is how the media and so many fans tend to judge the "strength" of the Group of 5 leagues.

That said, lets look at some facts from this season that may surprise some...

The Atlantic Coast Conference has only 3 wins against other Power 5 conferences so far. The Big 12 has only 4 and the much heralded SEC has 5. That said, kudos to the Big Ten...they actually have 8 non-conference Power 5 wins already.

Meanwhile, the MAC (Toledo responsible for 2) and the American both have 4 wins against Power 5 leagues, the Mountain West has 3 (Boise responsible for 2) and Conference USA has 2. (With the understanding that most of these league's opportunities come on the ROAD in such games.)

Notre Dame, one school who is an independent, has the same number of Power 5 wins right now as the entire ACC combined.

Now, for the rest of the season...the "Power 5" will predominantly play within their own leagues and those wins or loses will dictate, with no true indicator of how good the said league is, what teams go to every single one of the major bowl spots but one. With the vast majority of the same schools getting a head start based on where their "preseason" rankings placed them in the pecking order based on conjecture and opinion.

The entire Playoff and Bowl system is a complete injustice to every student-athlete who plays the sport of FBS football at nearly half of the schools involved.

[Garbanjo]

Great post banker!

I'm sick to hell of Herd "fans" trashing our team and schedule.

Go Herd!

[Apollo]

OSU played a weaker-than-usual VPI, Hawaii, NIU, and WMU--and that's okay...we played Purdue, OU, Norfolk State, and Kent--and our own fans say we should be ashamed... ??? ??? ???...

And OSU plays a big10 conference schedule. We don't. I see both sides of the argument. We can only schedule who is willing to play us. There's nothing we can do about the conference schedule. People need to take a step back and look at things a little more objectively.

Ideally for us, we should aim for the following OOC each year and then our conference slate...

Warmup game - lower G5 (i.e. Sun Belt)
Lower tier C5 - Purdue
Mid-tier C5 - Kstate
power G5 - BYU, Boise, etc

Obviously, we can't do that every year so we need to accept what we get and make the most of it. Anything less will require an undefeated season and a few breaks to get the Access Bowl. Our goal, short of that, every year is the CUSACG. We all know how chicken %^&* the P5 is about playing here, or the G5 for that matter. No one wants to play us at home because we have a huge home field advantage. (The bookies really should make our hfa at least 6 points instead of the 3)

The names matter. It isn't just bowl eligible that people like us need to be aware of. OSU and Alabama, yeah bowl eligible is fine for their opponents. We, and others like us, need brand names to boost our status. Thats why Boise gets more credit for wins against BYU and Arizona and a "quality loss" against Ole Miss, than our wins against NSU and Kent. Thats just how it is. It isn't our fault.

We shouldn't be trashing our team or our schedule. We should be supporting our team and our admins to keep making our program a contender year in and year out. That's how we earn the respect of our peers not bickering amongst ourselves and trashing our own fans and program over things we have no control over.

[herdman]

the schedule is a problem. The problem is not the conference(that has its issues and can't really be controlled by MU). The problem is playing Purdue, Ohio, Kent, and Norfolk State OOC.

One it is not very exciting.

Two it will get harder to recruit with.

Three, I find it boring at some point.

Four, it hurts growth and accountability as there are not measuring sticks or high standards.

Throw in the conference schedule and it is bad, really bad.  At least Boise plays some better OOC schedules.

We really don't know how good we are.

[ZackUSAF82]

Great post banker!

I'm sick to hell of Herd "fans" trashing our team and schedule.

Go Herd!

Amen to that, exactly why I don't spend much time on here anymore...I have better things to do than read that crap on top of the know-it-all blowhards that make it impossible to have an opinion.

[herd1986]

I thought the Purdue,  Ohio, and Kent games were exciting this year.


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[MUonium]

"We are only successful because our SOS?  That's a no."

the correct answer is no and yes and yes and no

[jocktalker]

I guess I don't understand the premise of this thread.

Is Marshall successful ONLY because of its weak schedule?  The obvious answer is NO!

But even the biggest Kool Aide drinker on the board has to acknowledge that the weak schedule(s) has/have helped pad the Herd's won-loss record.

That's why it has been so difficult to evaluate just how good or bad this team is and why the CFP Committee seemingly disrespected the program last year.  There just wasn't any empirical evidence last year to support any sort of balanced evaluation---only judgements based on opinions from each member of the CFP.

It should be obvious to everyone that Marshall needs to boost its OOC schedule and that is not going to be easy.  Mike Hamrick's position for only scheduling one-for-one contracts certainly limits the potential pool of applicants.  The cynic in me says that is by design.  I think Mike would rather be judged at the end of the day by Marshall's overall won-loss record and not necessarily by trying to schedule teams that would put the Herd into serious consideration for an Access Bowl berth.  Upgrading the schedule most likely would require Marshall to schedule some one and dones or two for one contracts and I don't believe he wants to risk losing potential 12-0 or 11-1 seasons. JMO.

[_sturt_]

In 2013 and 2014 Boise State played a total of 14 teams that ended the season bowl eligible (at least 6 wins). In those 14 games they were 8-6. Overall 20-7.

In 2013 and 2014 Marshall played a total of 14 teams that ended the season bowl eligible (at least 6 wins). In those 14 games they were 9-5. Overall 23-5.

In 2013 and 2014 Northern Illinois played a total of 13 teams that ended the season bowl eligible (at least 6 wins). In those 13 games they were 8-5. Overall 23-5.

Here's what so many people seem to miss, every G5 team plays a bunch of easy games because there are a bunch of bad G5 teams in every G5 conference. I listed the three G5 teams that had the most success over the last two years and all three played almost exactly the same number of "quality teams", defined as teams that reached bowl eligibility. All three performed similarly against those teams, although Marshall was the best of the three.

So cry all you want about our success being falsely inflated. If you want to do that, please post an example of a G5 team with a more impressive resume over the last two years and support your argument.

Put me down, too, for "anti-falsely-inflated" if that's what the primary question is.

But then, if the question is, "does our schedule need to improve in order to compete annually for the access bowl bid?

Yes. Of course it does.

And thankfully, for now anyhow, it appears that it might. Just keep scheduling those 1/1s with ACC teams, MH, and no more FCS games please.

[herdman22]

I don't understand why this continues to be discussed when we can simply look ahead and see the improvement coming.  In football, you have only so many OOC spots to fill and that happens years in advance.  But, next year schedule includes Pitt and Louisville.  NC State is coming up.  Navy and ECU coming soon.  App State who by that time could be one of the G5 power teams.  Ohio comes back on the schedule, and I honestly have never figured out why everyone thinks we should just dominate Ohio every time we play them.  

With all this, I'm having trouble understanding why people keep saying Hamrick is weakening the schedule.  I see some of the best schedules in Marshall football history in the next few years.  

And, anyway, things have worked out well this year.  We had a lot of new pieces put in place at some key positions.  Not a bad year to have the schedule we have.  Would much rather see Louisville and Pitt next year when some of the new guys have a year experience. 

Doesn't matter to me who we play, I will be there supporting the Herd!