Topic: Decision Makers Part Deux

[jocktalker]

Bray Carey hosted Marshall President Jerry Gilbert, welcomed him to West Virginia and gave him an opportunity to talk about his plans at the university.

Among the topics I found of interest, he said he wanted the Marshall presidency because he wanted a situation where he could shape a vision and help the school grow as opposed to being a caretaker at an established university.

He said he supports athletics for a variety of reasons but emphasized athletics' role for marketing the school. He likened athletics as the front porch to the house but said that what was important was what happened inside the house. Academics is the most important part of the house.

He has met with WVU President E. Gordon Gee and called him a brilliant and generous man. He marveled at Gee's experience as a college president at several stops around the country and that he hopes to learn from him. He said he is looking forward to working with Gee and that process had already started.

His immediate goal is to boost enrollment to 15k and said he believed Marshall could eventually grow to 20k.

Overall, I thought it was a positive interview and a job well done by Dr. Gilbert.

[herd2win]

Make no mistake as a person in the know....Gee does not want MU to thrive, just the opposite, he wants to take over the entire state.  I hope Gilbert's strategy is to keep your friends close and your enemy's closer...and that is why he is speaking to Gee.

Gee does not want any competition for WVU.

[svherd]

Gee and Carey, along with UC President Welch would love to see Marshall die and go away. Those guys hate our guts.

[The Right Stuff]

You are sooo right sv about Gee and Carey,  I don't know Welch.

TRS
MU 71

[The E-Man]

Bray Carey hosted Marshall President Jerry Gilbert, welcomed him to West Virginia and gave him an opportunity to talk about his plans at the

If Bray Cary really cared about Marshall and Huntington, he would have more Herd sports on his news stations. We're very lucky to get a 30 second segment. Look at Brays news websites and see if there's any Marshall sports on it. ( http://www.wowktv.com/) This is channel WOWK 13, and there's nothing about Marshall sports on here, and I mean nothing!!!
Bray and Gee both don't have Marshall and Huntington in their best interest, you can believe that!

[svherd]

You are sooo right sv about Gee and Carey,  I don't know Welch.

TRS
MU 71

TRS, Welch politicked heavily against us having a Pharmacy school and partnered with WVU in lobbying the legislature against it. He had many Op Ed pieces in the Gagette about how an MU school of Pharmacy was a joke and bad for the state.

[HerdKelly]

TRS, Welch politicked heavily against us having a Pharmacy school and partnered with WVU in lobbying the legislature against it. He had many Op Ed pieces in the Gagette about how an MU school of Pharmacy was a joke and bad for the state.

In fairness to UC (with whom I have no connection), I assume Marshall would do the same if UC tried to... say... open a Medical School.

[jocktalker]

In fairness to UC (with whom I have no connection), I assume Marshall would do the same if UC tried to... say... open a Medical School.

I worked closely in the past with Dr. Kopp and Dr. Welch when I lived in Charleston.  I'm not taking sides but the University of Charleston's position is this.  Dr. Welch and his staff met with Dr. Kopp to tell them that UC planned to start a pharmacy program and to make sure that Marshall did not have plans to start one of their own.  When assured that Marshall had no plans to start a pharmacy program, UC went ahead with its plans.

Sometime thereafter, Marshall changed its mind and decided to start a pharmacy program.  Marshall's decision came too late for UC to stop its plans.  UC felt betrayed by Marshall and decided to fight MU's decision.  They enlisted the support of WVU to help kill the project but I have no idea whether WVU was actively engaged or not.

Like I said, I'm not taking sides or pointing the finger one way or the other.  I never had the opportunity to get Dr. Kopp's version of what actually happened although it makes sense that Marshall, a public school, would view the start of a pharmacy program differently than a private school like UC.

[BHFIOHIO]

Gee and Carey, along with UC President Welch would love to see Marshall die and go away. Those guys hate our guts.

Maybe a-holes part trois?

[breckjimison]

I worked closely in the past with Dr. Kopp and Dr. Welch when I lived in Charleston.  I'm not taking sides but the University of Charleston's position is this.  Dr. Welch and his staff met with Dr. Kopp to tell them that UC planned to start a pharmacy program and to make sure that Marshall did not have plans to start one of their own.  When assured that Marshall had no plans to start a pharmacy program, UC went ahead with its plans.

Sometime thereafter, Marshall changed its mind and decided to start a pharmacy program.  Marshall's decision came too late for UC to stop its plans.  UC felt betrayed by Marshall and decided to fight MU's decision.  They enlisted the support of WVU to help kill the project but I have no idea whether WVU was actively engaged or not.

Like I said, I'm not taking sides or pointing the finger one way or the other.  I never had the opportunity to get Dr. Kopp's version of what actually happened although it makes sense that Marshall, a public school, would view the start of a pharmacy program differently than a private school like UC.

Very interesting thread. More please!

[marshallmark]

I worked closely in the past with Dr. Kopp and Dr. Welch when I lived in Charleston.  I'm not taking sides but the University of Charleston's position is this.  Dr. Welch and his staff met with Dr. Kopp to tell them that UC planned to start a pharmacy program and to make sure that Marshall did not have plans to start one of their own.  When assured that Marshall had no plans to start a pharmacy program, UC went ahead with its plans.

Sometime thereafter, Marshall changed its mind and decided to start a pharmacy program.  Marshall's decision came too late for UC to stop its plans.  UC felt betrayed by Marshall and decided to fight MU's decision.  They enlisted the support of WVU to help kill the project but I have no idea whether WVU was actively engaged or not.

Like I said, I'm not taking sides or pointing the finger one way or the other.  I never had the opportunity to get Dr. Kopp's version of what actually happened although it makes sense that Marshall, a public school, would view the start of a pharmacy program differently than a private school like UC.

Interesting, although I think you were only getting 3/4 of the story.  Years and years ago, Robert Byrd approached Dr. Kopp about starting a pharmacy program to help, among other things, the VA Hospital in Wayne County.  He had fed funds earmarked to start the program, but Dr. Kopp was (perhaps rightly) concerned about the ongoing costs of such a program if the federal gov't wasn't going to provide the majority of the funding.  Dr. Kopp turned it down.  Byrd then approached UC about starting one, in large part because UC had been discussing starting a program for a few years before this opportunity presented itself.  

After UC started its program, it became apparent that it wasn't serving the community or fulfilling the mission that Sen. Byrd sought.  If you look at its admissions, a high % of UC pharm students are from out of state and out of the country.  Marshall determined that it needed to expand its technical and professional offerings, and it could house a pharmacy school relatively cheaply since a lot of the basic sciences are duplicative of what the med school was offering.  Plus, the med school's academic dean at the time was a doctor of pharmacy/MD and he was a perfect fit into the leadership role of the new pharmacy school.  Now, if you take a look at Marshall's pharmacy school student body, most of them are from Appalachia and plan to stay in this area to fill the pharmacy spots that are open.  

I don't think that WVU fought openly against MU's plans to start a pharm school - I doubt they saw it as a threat to them since the students Marshall got wouldn't be coming from WVU's back yard, so to speak.  

[jocktalker]

Interesting, although I think you were only getting 3/4 of the story.  Years and years ago, Robert Byrd approached Dr. Kopp about starting a pharmacy program to help, among other things, the VA Hospital in Wayne County.  He had fed funds earmarked to start the program, but Dr. Kopp was (perhaps rightly) concerned about the ongoing costs of such a program if the federal gov't wasn't going to provide the majority of the funding.  Dr. Kopp turned it down.  Byrd then approached UC about starting one, in large part because UC had been discussing starting a program for a few years before this opportunity presented itself.  

After UC started its program, it became apparent that it wasn't serving the community or fulfilling the mission that Sen. Byrd sought.  If you look at its admissions, a high % of UC pharm students are from out of state and out of the country.  Marshall determined that it needed to expand its technical and professional offerings, and it could house a pharmacy school relatively cheaply since a lot of the basic sciences are duplicative of what the med school was offering.  Plus, the med school's academic dean at the time was a doctor of pharmacy/MD and he was a perfect fit into the leadership role of the new pharmacy school.  Now, if you take a look at Marshall's pharmacy school student body, most of them are from Appalachia and plan to stay in this area to fill the pharmacy spots that are open.  

I don't think that WVU fought openly against MU's plans to start a pharm school - I doubt they saw it as a threat to them since the students Marshall got wouldn't be coming from WVU's back yard, so to speak.  

I have no reason to doubt your account of this issue. It makes total sense and it provides a reason that UC believed that Marshall changed its position.

As,I said previously,  I'm not taking one side or the other. I just tried to provide some some background before this tread turned into 3 pages of conspiracy theories not supported by facts.

[Pinkerton99]

Here is the segment:

http://www.statejournal.com/clip/12247279/decision-makers-22816-segment-2

You have to enable flash to watch it. 

[coalherd]

It sounds like Dr. Gilbert has surveyed the lay of the land in higher ed. in this state and correctly assessed the situation.  It doesn't take much to realize that WVU has realized in the past that one way to stifle MU's growth is to expand, in the Kanawha Valley and elsewhere.  Thus they would have, if not overtly, covertly backed UC's pharmacy school plans.  Now, we have the total mismanagement and fiasco of WVU's stewardship at WV Tech.  The result:  well, UC becomes the white knight and rushes into action to obtain, at a deep discount, the failed private Mountain State U. in Beckley.  A few years later, WVU and UC come to an "agreement" that results in WVU "acquiring" the UC Beckley facility lock, stock and barrel!!.  Now WVU, who let the Tech campus in Montgomery deteriorate and fall into disrepair, is moving the entire school to Beckley!!  Anybody want to guess what the cost will be to upgrade and modernize the Beckley campus to accommodate the Tech Engineering and Science programs?  Watch this issue, because with MU and other state colleges and universities being denied funds to upgrade and renovate their campus facilities, the state will no doubt give WVU a "blank check" to do what they want in Beckley.  For example, note the MU campus master plan, approved in 2013 with hundreds of millions of new and renovation capital projects, sits gathering dust in Old Main and the Higher Ed. Policy Commission Office.

On the other hand, Dr. Gilbert and MU have seemed to correctly gauge the higher ed. system as witnessed by the announcement in the last week that MU is going to offer UNDERGRADUATE classes at our South Charleston Graduate College campus and online.  This is to help backfill the need created by the staged phase out of WV Tech's programs from Montgomery to Beckley.  A great move and congrats to Dr. Gilbert and our Board of Governors.

Now, the next move that Gilbert and our administration should make is to survey and determine a site for, and proceed to construction of, a permanent MU branch facility in Teays Valley.  We've had classes there for years, but they are in inadequate and crowded rented/leased public school facilities.  Putnam is one area of positive growth and in a very strategic area in southern/southwestern WV.  Such a move would forestall a possible move by the expansive minded and egotistical Gordon Gee, after the Beckley relocation of Tech is completed, for a "WVU-Teays Valley" campus!!

[Ovaltine Jenkins]

What's the situation with Bluefield State?  Could it become an acquisition target.  It's location near SW Virginia could have some advantages.  Living out of state for so long, this thread is eye opening and interesting.

[lovetheherd2]

All the info is much appreciated and helpful to out of state fans and hopeful former residents who want Marshall, Huntington AND the state of WV to succeed.

But from afar, the infighting and nasty territorial disputes seem very dysfunctional.

Sad but matches long time north vs south, east vs west. No one seems to be able to unite the state for the state sake.....

Just sayin'

[jocktalker]

It sounds like Dr. Gilbert has surveyed the lay of the land in higher ed. in this state and correctly assessed the situation.  It doesn't take much to realize that WVU has realized in the past that one way to stifle MU's growth is to expand, in the Kanawha Valley and elsewhere.  Thus they would have, if not overtly, covertly backed UC's pharmacy school plans.  Now, we have the total mismanagement and fiasco of WVU's stewardship at WV Tech.  The result:  well, UC becomes the white knight and rushes into action to obtain, at a deep discount, the failed private Mountain State U. in Beckley.  A few years later, WVU and UC come to an "agreement" that results in WVU "acquiring" the UC Beckley facility lock, stock and barrel!!.  Now WVU, who let the Tech campus in Montgomery deteriorate and fall into disrepair, is moving the entire school to Beckley!!  Anybody want to guess what the cost will be to upgrade and modernize the Beckley campus to accommodate the Tech Engineering and Science programs?  Watch this issue, because with MU and other state colleges and universities being denied funds to upgrade and renovate their campus facilities, the state will no doubt give WVU a "blank check" to do what they want in Beckley.  For example, note the MU campus master plan, approved in 2013 with hundreds of millions of new and renovation capital projects, sits gathering dust in Old Main and the Higher Ed. Policy Commission Office.

On the other hand, Dr. Gilbert and MU have seemed to correctly gauge the higher ed. system as witnessed by the announcement in the last week that MU is going to offer UNDERGRADUATE classes at our South Charleston Graduate College campus and online.  This is to help backfill the need created by the staged phase out of WV Tech's programs from Montgomery to Beckley.  A great move and congrats to Dr. Gilbert and our Board of Governors.

Now, the next move that Gilbert and our administration should make is to survey and determine a site for, and proceed to construction of, a permanent MU branch facility in Teays Valley.  We've had classes there for years, but they are in inadequate and crowded rented/leased public school facilities.  Putnam is one area of positive growth and in a very strategic area in southern/southwestern WV.  Such a move would forestall a possible move by the expansive minded and egotistical Gordon Gee, after the Beckley relocation of Tech is completed, for a "WVU-Teays Valley" campus!!

And this is the kind of speculative conspiracy theory post I had hoped to avoid.

[Pinkerton99]

And this is the kind of speculative conspiracy theory post I had hoped to avoid.

Oh come on... Why did WVU not fund the campus adequately?  It's an obvious "Starve the Beast" strategy.  They claimed Tech was salvageable when they made it a full division of WVU and that there was no need for Marshall to expand Engineering offerings in the Kanawha Valley.  Now, just a few years later the campus is beyond repair and must be moved to Beckley.

[HerdKelly]

Gonna guess you have a connection to Montgomery or Tech. No rational person can honestly say Tech's days in Montgomery weren't limited.

If Tech could have survived on its own it would have. It has been/had been in trouble for decades


GLENVILLE and Bluefield could be following a similar path.

[Olen]

The decision not to accept Byrd's offer to fund a pharmacy school was Dan Angel's baby, not Kopp's.  By the time Kopp came to MU on July 1, 2005, the UC Pharmacy program was already funded and moving dirt and officially opened the following fall (Aug. 2006).   

And let's also be clear -- the time interval between when UC decided to start its pharmacy program (with federal funding from Byrd) and when MU decided to star its pharmacy program was more than "some time" -- it was almost a decade apart. 

[banker]

There are far, far too many "colleges" in WV.  Carnegie lists 43 in the state, that's almost as many as Kentucky and we have less than half the population.  The state needs consolidation.

[coalherd]

Sorry, jocktalker, that you can't distinguish "speculation" from FACTS.  One would have to have been living under a rock for the last few years not to be able to recognize what Gordon Gee's strategy has been for WVU vis-à-vis higher education in general in this state.  Where do you think Gee's plan to grow WVU's enrollment to 40,000 plans to get those additional students in light of the state's flat population growth and shrinking public school enrollments?  From the other state colleges and Universities, of course.  

As for WVU Tech, anyone close to the situation there knew the school needed help when WVU took over that campus.  WVU made promises re: campus improvements and renovations that they HAVE NOT KEPT!  That is FACT, not speculation.  So the campus, classroom and dorm facilities, deteriorated further.  Solution, let WVU move whole school to Beckley, not doubt pleasing some Raleigh County politicos and making Gee look like a knight in shining armor in a county where MU has had some following and a significant source of students.

As for Bluefield State.  Well, look at the facts:  the school has ZERO on campus dorm facilities.  It has some engineering and health, nursing programs.  Being next to Virginia, it has potential to draw out of state students, given the high tuition in that state.  But having no dorm facilities to speak of, attracting out of state students is a struggle.

Bluefield State is NOT an isolated situation, nor is WVU Tech.  Look at ALL the campus capital situations at schools in this state NOT located in Morganhole.  MU tore down Hodges Hall as "unlivable" and this year shuttered another facility, Laidley Hall.  WV State within last year or so opened a new dorm complex, first in over a half a century.  Fairmont State has either identified and/or shuttered dorms that are no longer livable or usable.  Across the state, campus facilities continue to deteriorate and fall into disrepair and obsolescence.  Does the state provide sufficient funding to maintain and/or upgrade these capital facilities?  Or does it let the situation continue and then let WVU swoop in and "save the day" under the "Mighty Mouse" leadership of Gordy Gee?

No speculation, just Facts.  Want an example?  MU master plan called for demolition and replacement of large dorm, Holderby Hall, on 5th Avenue in 5 years.  New dorms and recreation area were to be built across 5th Avenue and then Holderby would be torn down.  Anybody in Huntington see ANY MOVEMENT on such project/construction?  Whole thing detailed in 2013 master plan, this is 2016.  Anyone really believe state will authorize bonds to allow such a project to be done by 2018, if ever?

Final Fact:  President of WV State, Dr. Hemphill, is leaving to become President of Radford U., a 9000 student campus in Virginia.  The lady whom he is replacing as president at Radford was there for 6 years.  During that period of time, her administration got $400 million in new facilities and renovations on the Radford campus!!  If you want to check, I am confident you will find that West Virginia in the same 6 year period did not spend $400 million in state funds on campus capital projects at ALL state colleges and universities NOT located in Morgantown!  Just the FACTS!!!

[coalherd]

There are far, far too many "colleges" in WV.  Carnegie lists 43 in the state, that's almost as many as Kentucky and we have less than half the population.  The state needs consolidation.

May be true, banker.  But tell the whole story.  Go visit the regional U. campus facilities at WKU, EKU, Morehead, and Murray State, and then come back and look at the campus facilities here in WV, outside of Morganhole.  You'll open your eyes, and probably shake your head.  Yes, WV has 1.8 million people, Ky a little over 4 million.  Yes, we may have too many small colleges, but will the state, if they close some of these schools, provide the money and support to the remaining schools outside of WVU?  Right now, for example, EKU, WITHOUT a Medical School and an enrollment of 16,000 has a budget THREE TIMES THAT OF MU!!

The Herald-Dispatch a couple of years ago had a small article noting that Kentucky's state colleges had produced something like 60 to 65 thousand college grads in 2013.  I looked on the WV Higher Ed Commission website and found that in 2011 to 2013, WV public colleges and universities, including WVU, had conferred about 12,000 degrees a year in that time period.  So KY with a little over twice our population produces 5 TIMES the number of college grads a year!!

Too many colleges, maybe.  NOT ENOUGH COLLEGE GRADS, DEFINITELY!!  So which state trying to lure businesses from outside has the advantage when it comes to being able to supply a well educated work force??  Answer is obviously clear, and sadly, is no doubt the same when comparing the other 4 states that surround WV.

[jocktalker]

Sorry, jocktalker, that you can't distinguish "speculation" from FACTS.  One would have to have been living under a rock for the last few years not to be able to recognize what Gordon Gee's strategy has been for WVU vis-à-vis higher education in general in this state.  Where do you think Gee's plan to grow WVU's enrollment to 40,000 plans to get those additional students in light of the state's flat population growth and shrinking public school enrollments?  From the other state colleges and Universities, of course.  

As for WVU Tech, anyone close to the situation there knew the school needed help when WVU took over that campus.  WVU made promises re: campus improvements and renovations that they HAVE NOT KEPT!  That is FACT, not speculation.  So the campus, classroom and dorm facilities, deteriorated further.  Solution, let WVU move whole school to Beckley, not doubt pleasing some Raleigh County politicos and making Gee look like a knight in shining armor in a county where MU has had some following and a significant source of students.

As for Bluefield State.  Well, look at the facts:  the school has ZERO on campus dorm facilities.  It has some engineering and health, nursing programs.  Being next to Virginia, it has potential to draw out of state students, given the high tuition in that state.  But having no dorm facilities to speak of, attracting out of state students is a struggle.

Bluefield State is NOT an isolated situation, nor is WVU Tech.  Look at ALL the campus capital situations at schools in this state NOT located in Morganhole.  MU tore down Hodges Hall as "unlivable" and this year shuttered another facility, Laidley Hall.  WV State within last year or so opened a new dorm complex, first in over a half a century.  Fairmont State has either identified and/or shuttered dorms that are no longer livable or usable.  Across the state, campus facilities continue to deteriorate and fall into disrepair and obsolescence.  Does the state provide sufficient funding to maintain and/or upgrade these capital facilities?  Or does it let the situation continue and then let WVU swoop in and "save the day" under the "Mighty Mouse" leadership of Gordy Gee?

No speculation, just Facts.  Want an example?  MU master plan called for demolition and replacement of large dorm, Holderby Hall, on 5th Avenue in 5 years.  New dorms and recreation area were to be built across 5th Avenue and then Holderby would be torn down.  Anybody in Huntington see ANY MOVEMENT on such project/construction?  Whole thing detailed in 2013 master plan, this is 2016.  Anyone really believe state will authorize bonds to allow such a project to be done by 2018, if ever?

Final Fact:  President of WV State, Dr. Hemphill, is leaving to become President of Radford U., a 9000 student campus in Virginia.  The lady whom he is replacing as president at Radford was there for 6 years.  During that period of time, her administration got $400 million in new facilities and renovations on the Radford campus!!  If you want to check, I am confident you will find that West Virginia in the same 6 year period did not spend $400 million in state funds on campus capital projects at ALL state colleges and universities NOT located in Morgantown!  Just the FACTS!!!

Perhaps you should look up the definitions of speculation and facts.  I've heard this narrative many times before. You are,speculating on all of your points to reach conclusions not supported by documented facts.

Nevertheless, my thread was to point out that Dr. Gilbert was a guest on Decision Makers and represented Marshall very well. It was not my intention for that subject matter to be hijacked by others with a different agenda in mind. You, of course, are entitled to your opinions and to start a new thread to vent your frustrations and anger toward WVU.

[Johnnyherd]

Well the first thing our president needs to realize is that, we don't need WVU's permission to do anything, all we need to do is put together a comprehensive plan for growth with the proper financing in place.  If we do it right then students will come, see every other successful university in America...