Topic: Big 12 to add 4 teams in 2017

[bbcard1]

Seriously, reshuffling the conferences is the best answer, aligning them geographically.  But I am not sure that everyone's self interest will not trump the best solution.

[ThunderValley]

It's going to really get interesting when PAC, ACC, Big10 and SEC decide to expand and start by raiding the B12.

There will be some teams left scratching their head and wondering WTH just happened. The leftovers have to merge
or make some moves of their own. We haven't seen anything yet

[Daherdboy]

Don't usually post on this subject but.....

I'd say the deal breaker for moving to the AAC would be "No Props."
A part of our recruiting success is to bring in 4-5 props a season.  Doc has such a deep recruiting grapevine that he can root-out those diamonds who are on the academic boarder line and bring them in. 

If the AAC would allow props, then I'd guess MU would go if asked.

Just my opinion.

[svherd]

Don't usually post on this subject but.....

I'd say the deal breaker for moving to the AAC would be "No Props."
A part of our recruiting success is to bring in 4-5 props a season.  Doc has such a deep recruiting grapevine that he can root-out those diamonds who are on the academic boarder line and bring them in. 

If the AAC would allow props, then I'd guess MU would go if asked.

Just my opinion.

Agree DA. And that's sad. We are basically admitting we can't compete without them. Personally, I think we would be fine. Jmo

[MUalumni0912]

Don't usually post on this subject but.....

I'd say the deal breaker for moving to the AAC would be "No Props."
A part of our recruiting success is to bring in 4-5 props a season.  Doc has such a deep recruiting grapevine that he can root-out those diamonds who are on the academic boarder line and bring them in. 

If the AAC would allow props, then I'd guess MU would go if asked.

Just my opinion.

Yeah well Doc having success at NC State, UF, and even wvu, without props, shows one can be successful.
If he is as good of a recruiter as advertised, he would be able to get talent anywhere...even without props.

[MUonium]

Don't usually post on this subject but.....

I'd say the deal breaker for moving to the AAC would be "No Props."
A part of our recruiting success is to bring in 4-5 props a season.  Doc has such a deep recruiting grapevine that he can root-out those diamonds who are on the academic boarder line and bring them in. 

If the AAC would allow props, then I'd guess MU would go if asked.

Just my opinion.

Agree DA. And that's sad. We are basically admitting we can't compete without them. Personally, I think we would be fine. Jmo

Yeah well Doc having success at NC State, UF, and even wvu, without props, shows one can be successful.
If he is as good of a recruiter as advertised, he would be able to get talent anywhere...even without props.

JC route might supplant loss of props well enough, at least once it becomes more focused as a recruiting target (or has it always been an equal target)?

[MUalumni0912]

Unfortunately, I feel this is true. Financially speaking, I don't think Marshall will pull the trigger if asked. I know it's early, but I'm curious as to what the exit and entrance fees would be? Given what I've read about Marshall's athletic budget, etc., could it pull off a conference change? And this is all based on if the AAC would even want Marshall, which I'm not sure is the case. Again, given what I've read, it appears the AAC prefers like-minded schools (budgets, facilities, no props).
Depending on the number of schools that will be leaving the AAC (2-3), you'd think Southern Miss and Old Dominion would be the front runners. If Houston leaves, there is a lot of talk that Rice would move up so the AAC would still have a foot (albeit a small one) in the Houston market.
Overall, I'd love to see Marshall go the the AAC. I'm just nervous that it won't happen...

I disagree...

The AAC move a few years ago, was not the time for us. We had nothing to marquee. The Vision Campaign wasn't finished, the team hadn't won anything...we had nothing to really sell.
Now? We have been competitive and have won. We also have upgraded facilities and are going to continue upgrading.
Also, if ESPN is any indicator of anything, they're gonna jump back on the Marshall bandwagon...in fact, they have with as much coverage as we got from a network that doesn't even cover us...
That'll make MU more marketable. P5? ACC? Not likely...we don't have the endowment, academics, or resources at this time. AAC? Thats a much different and attainable goal. We are already a well known name, we have a team to back up the hype, and overall our story is one that resonates with the country.
Thats why I feel, the time around, its different and the AD is going to look to moving us up.
We actually may have saved money by stating due to lesser travel costs...and one thing CUSA does, is they, as a conference, cover our bowl travel costs.
We have a share of exit fees along with revenue generated, and upcoming million and a half payouts from P5 schools...sounds to me like we are gathering resources for possibly moving over.

Now is a better time than ever, to move. The AAC commish is still probably crying like a bride left at the alter, and is going to look at us with more open eyes than before.

[JEP3rd]

I read an article two days ago that for me makes me wonder if all the power conference schools will make their final moves toward 16 teams each much sooner than expected.

With the Big 12 announcement of expansion, one line of thought is that now is the time to finalize this process over the next two years. So, just for fun, could the following happen:

(1) Despite the Big 12 announcing expansion of up to four teams, could they also lose three: Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, and Texas, to some combo of the Big 10 and the SEC or the Pac 12? And then those three conferences and the ACC finally figure out whom else they want to get from the Big 12 to ratchet up to 16 each, and create the 'Super 64' division or whatever it would be called?

(2) If so, the Big 12 dissolves from the continuous raiding process and just consumes most of the AAC? If yes, who becomes the new AAC? The new Big 12/ AAC 2.0 likely wouldn't have a chance to go to a 16 team conference with P-5 status due to the quality of who's left.

(3) So then, does the 'new Big 12/AAC 2.0' get together with other conference commissioners and form a previously-talked-about alliance, in some combo, with Mountain West/WAC/CUSA/MAC/Sun Belt, form its own subdivision (would rather that not happen), develop its own cross-conference scheduling, and force P-5 schools to just schedule each other from here on out for OOC games - or at least drive a harder bargain for those games? And  that might eliminate some natural rivalry games in the short-term until the P-5 champion regularly has around 2 losses or so, and people begin to complain.

Many of you will see the micro implications better than me, I'm more interested in the macro for now. I'm not trying to think it all through for now, so have at it with scenarios for how fast this Super 64 will happen in light of the Big 12 expansion.

[BHFIOHIO]

Agree DA. And that's sad. We are basically admitting we can't compete without them. Personally, I think we would be fine. Jmo

well....there were thirty some times the last three yrs when the other team couldn't compete without them vs the Herd.

[MUther]

I think the perception of the AAC to CUSA will be enough to offset 4-5 NQs a year taken by us in terms of recruiting.  We can tell kids in Florida we're a step up in conference over FIU/FAU instead of trying to explain to them we're better but in the same conference.  We can tell them every game will be on ESPN and not BEIN.  We can tell them they'll be playing UCF, ECU, USM(likely), Navy, Temple, etc instead of UNT, Charlotte, FIU, FAU, etc.  These are the kinds of things, plus winning, that will get recruits here instead of mid-level P5s and other G5s.  We'll be fine if it come to that.

[svherd]

well....there were thirty some times the last three yrs when the other team couldn't compete without them vs the Herd.

The question is, can we compete without them in the AAC? Dig?

I think we can.

[BHFIOHIO]

maybe but vs Tulsa, ECU and UCF as CUSA with our NQs we didn't set any records now did we? Zero CCs. Now add in Navy, USF and others depending on who goes to little 12 and normal cognizance says you are off base.

[BHFIOHIO]

and besides...Hamrick has ALREADY SCHEDULED three of those blanket blank teams you guys are slobbering over home and home. Even money says more are to follow not counting Louisville, Pitt, NC St and Boise. How much is enough? Ohio St and Alabama play pee wees compared to their ability about three fourths of the time. How many times is Oklahoma an underdog? Fla St or Oregon? Every game cant be an edge of your seat contest. Start dominating the top teams in the conf you are in before the delusions of grandeur. Been loving Marshall since the late 50s but not so much I don't know who we will beat, can beat or might beat. If Rice and USM go to the AAC Ga Southern and Appy have pretty much already shown they are just as capable. Win our league with regularity, some OOC contests, bowls games and it wont matter what league we do it in!

[MUalumni0912]

I think you're right about expansion.
It happens that one of the P5 is going to dissolve, likely yhe Big 12.

If it plays out the way I personally think it would...

Oklahoma, TCU, Oklahoma State and Kansas State to the SEC.
Iowa State and Kansas to the Big 10 (AAU association).
Texas either goes independent or Pac-12.
The ACC takes UConn, Navy, Cincy, and/or Memphis.

Marshall, already in the AAC, will have the remaining schools join them...making the AAC and MWC 2 premiere G5 conferences...getting paid solid money but not too much money...and being the lesser level, plays the P5.

Or...

There's rumor about the truly elite level schools...Alabama, Texas, Florida, etc., wanting to break off and form their own DIVISION of football.
Lets face it...lots of top schools would rather keep the money than share it with underachievers...Ohio State would love to take the majority of the money pot instead of having to split it with Purdue.

In either case, we need to make moves.

[elginherd]

Being honest with my opinion:

I'd love to be playing the AAC teams on ESPN. However, the financial underpinnings for MU (& USPAM for the matter) are not solid. There is  an anti-upper ed climate in the state legislature and there has been for years.

[FlyHawk98]

Staying in CUSA is not an option.

[bbcard1]

maybe but vs Tulsa, ECU and UCF as CUSA with our NQs we didn't set any records now did we? Zero CCs. Now add in Navy, USF and others depending on who goes to little 12 and normal cognizance says you are off base.

If you think the coach/team we have now has anything to do with the coach/team we had then you haven't been paying attention for the past few years.

[FlyHawk98]

Our IAF was built at a perfect time.

[MUalumni0912]

This state is going broke.
If it had any sense, it would support Marshall moving as far up as it could.
Improving Marshall's athletic footprint in the rest of the country, will not only draw more students to the state, but attract much better opponents, some of whom, will travel well...if anything, people within WV will travel to see.

That helps the economy...and an economy so bad because the joke of a law school wvu, their grads just seem to scratch their butts and wonder why nobody is staying in the state.

It'd be great to go public with the push for the state legislature to get on board and support Marshall more and more when it comes to moving up...for the very reasons I just listed...it'll be a helpful element of the struggling state economy. It'll also tell wvu to shove it when it comes to holding the entire state back for their own benefits...and just how ass-backwards that train of thought really is.
Hell, imagine if Marshall were in the AAC for now...and was a contender each year...basically flirting with BCS bowl games...attracting better quality opponents, while wvu, still being terrible, is able to generate money for themselves as well...because being the Big-12 punching bag gives you a hefty little financial reward...even if your fanbase is fairweather.

WV should be trying to help both schools get as far up the levels of college sports as they can...but only seem to believe and fixated on just one, rather than both.

[BHFIOHIO]

If you think the coach/team we have now has anything to do with the coach/team we had then you haven't been paying attention for the past few years.

Houston, Navy, Temple, Memphis and USF has been as good lately as any of Doc's teams. If we cant handle WKU or MT I can promise we will have trouble with the AAC without our NQ advantage and a big disadvantage in funding and ath budget. See....I've been paying pretty good attention. And ECU and UCF wont suck forever either. It will be 3-5 WKUs in that league every yr but never the same ones. With the NQs I fear none of those guys. About 10 imp players this yr former NQs.

[bbcard1]

Houston, Navy, Temple, Memphis and USF has been as good lately as any of Doc's teams. If we cant handle WKU or MT I can promise we will have trouble with the AAC without our NQ advantage and a big disadvantage in funding and ath budget. See....I've been paying pretty good attention. And ECU and UCF wont suck forever either. It will be 3-5 WKUs in that league every yr but never the same ones. With the NQs I fear none of those guys. About 10 imp players this yr former NQs.

Actually, I see it as a two part question. Are we that same team we were before when we are in CUSA. We are much better.  I see WKU as having a Little Miami anomaly much like the RedHawkMen did when they had Ben Roethlisberger as their quarterback. MT has just been sickening as much better teams have lost to inferior teams our last two trips there. But week in, week out we have been pretty good and would be immediately in contention to win the title.

But I actually agree with you completely on NQs.  We should keep them. Academically, Marshall is a school that gives a lot of kids opportunity who, because of their geography, finances, or educational background could not attend other schools and gives them a chance.  A lot of us do better than find out way. We are not nor are we likely to ever become an elite educational institution, yet we manage to graduate some elite professionals. I think NQs fit right in with the academic profile of our university.

[elginherd]

For all our focus on how competitive the Herd's FB program is currently, don't forget that the quality of FB has only a slight positive correlation with invites to the conferences.

Witness Charlotte into the CUSA when Ga Southern, Appy, arkanas St, etc were available.

Witness Tulane into the AAC when the Herd was available.

[Ovaltine Jenkins]

Tulane is trying to mount a B12 campaign.

http://www.yardbarker.com/college_football/articles/tulane_yes_tulane_wants_to_be_a_big_12_school/s1_13156_21357583

[The E-Man]

WV should be trying to help both schools get as far up the levels of college sports as they can...but only seem to believe and fixated on just one, rather than both.

Asking the eerdiots to support Marshall, is like asking the Republicans to love President Obama, not gonna happen!

[bbcard1]

Lets face it...lots of top schools would rather keep the money than share it with underachievers...Ohio State would love to take the majority of the money pot instead of having to split it with Purdue.

You know, I don't have a problem with the top schools getting top money.  My problem is with the Kentuckys, Kansass and Wakes getting top money because of happy accidents of timing and association.