Topic: Chuck Landon: "Second Guess" Tuesday

[Buffalo Bop]

http://www.herald-dispatch.com/sports/marshall_sports/chuck-landon-marshall-not-throwing-downfield-like-in-the-ol/article_c4fb5299-7ef9-55e1-b203-d1323e86b542.html

Okay, it's time for more Chuck. (ducking)

First, Chuck questions what has happened to outside receivers at Marshall? It's mostly slot and TEs.

And Chuck weighs in on the President Gilbert's comments on the AAC. He calls his words spot-on and well said.

Is anyone surprised by Landon's stance on this?

[BHFIOHIO]

just a short while ago we were all griping about Cato throwing long time after time down the sideline and completes were rare. Guess he forgot about that. And its pre season...he hasn't a clue what we will do. Neither do I.

[Thunders]

I don't agree with not trying to move up. I think it's cowardly. So what's the plan to just stay in a watered down league and be a contender every year getting no respect from anyone? If that was the way we were going to approach things then we wouldn't have moved to D1. Just makes no sense. It's a better league and the bowl tie ins are much better. You don't see the Big 12 taking teams from CUSA. Any chance you can get to improve yourself is what needs to be done. If we sit still and a team like ODU or someone else leapfrog us then that is a shame. That's a sign of us throwing in the towel on growth. What's the point?

[iherdya]

I don't agree with not trying to move up. I think it's cowardly.

see, that's the thing, when you start making (business) decisions based on what's cowardly and what's not, you end up screwing yourself big time. cowardice should have absolutely NOTHING to do with our decision to move up or stay.

[FlyHawk98]

I refuse to click on CL articles, so can someone please help me out here.

What did our president say about moving to the AAC? I must have missed that.

[QuickStrike]

I don't agree with not trying to move up. I think it's cowardly. So what's the plan to just stay in a watered down league and be a contender every year getting no respect from anyone? If that was the way we were going to approach things then we wouldn't have moved to D1. Just makes no sense. It's a better league and the bowl tie ins are much better. You don't see the Big 12 taking teams from CUSA. Any chance you can get to improve yourself is what needs to be done. If we sit still and a team like ODU or someone else leapfrog us then that is a shame. That's a sign of us throwing in the towel on growth. What's the point?

If there is no attempt on Marshall's Administration to move to the AAC......you will see the beginning of the decline of MU football.  Many fans, donors & supporters will see that as a sign of giving up, and they will give up in return.

[marshallmark]

I have absolutely no doubt that Mike H and Prez G(and, lets not forget, the Bd of Govs) will do whatever they think is best for Marshall University.  That's why they are in those positions -- to weigh the pluses and minuses of even attempting to move conferences.  This potential move will be the biggest decision (if its even offered) in the history of Marshall athletics, so they HAVE to be deliberative and they CANNOT say things that will poison future relationships - when anyone says that C-USA is a shadow of what it was when we joined, while that might be very true, if the AD or Prez says that, how does he work closely with the AD and Prez of North Texas, FIU, UTSA, etc. when they will know that our AD or Prez was referring to them, specifically?  Why not keep your cards close and play the best hand your dealt, and position yourself to be able to do what you want to do in the future?  Remember, this is NOT an easy call!

Pluses - larger TV revenue, better names, more stability, top conference in G5, basketball is fantastic at top, more fan interest, a few natural rivals (like ECU)
Minuses - will revenue be there when MU is able to receive it? Will 'better names' like Cincy/UConn remain? If not, basketball becomes very pedestrian.  Will we be able to be competitive with a $27 mil budget?  If not, where does extra $5-8 mil a year to be near the bottom in ACC come from? How much will it cost to move? Reports are it would cost MU $5 mil to leave C-USA - how much to join AAC?  How much TV revenue will MU get in the first few years, and how long will it take to make back that $5 mil plus entrance fee?  What happens if/when conferences expand again?  Will AAC just be C-USA light, yet again? 

I don't know the answer to these questions, and neither do you.  THAT'S why MH and Prez G get the big bucks... let them do their jobs.

[herdfifteen]

MM. Like you I suspect Mike and the prez will do what is best for the university. However, I feel it was best for the university not to address the issue publicly unless they were setting the stage for remaining in CUSA. If there had been private discussions with the AAC concerning our being invited why would you not keep those private.

[FlyHawk98]

If there is no attempt on Marshall's Administration to move to the AAC......you will see the beginning of the decline of MU football.  Many fans, donors & supporters will see that as a sign of giving up, and they will give up in return.

Better watch out, you will get blasted on here for saying this. I know I did, but I agree with you.

[The E-Man]

If there is no attempt on Marshall's Administration to move to the AAC......you will see the beginning of the decline of MU football.  Many fans, donors & supporters will see that as a sign of giving up, and they will give up in return.

I totally agree! Just the thought of staying in a conference like CUSA, makes me  sick to my stomach and concerned about our future. This isn't just about Marshall, it's about what the fans want and our administration needs to listen to us. Ask yourself, do you really get up and excited watching us play Charlotte, USTA,  ODU, FIU? Be honest? I don't, in fact, I look at the schedule to see who we're playing next. I get much more fired up when we we're playing, ECU, Houston, Cincy, UCONN, etc... We have to get the hell out of CUSA, period!

[marshallmark]

I totally agree! Just the thought of staying in a conference like CUSA, makes me  sick to my stomach and concerned about our future. This isn't just about Marshall, it's about what the fans want and our administration needs to listen to us. Ask yourself, do you really get up and excited watching us play Charlotte, USTA,  ODU, FIU? Be honest? I don't, in fact, I look at the schedule to see who we're playing next. I get much more fired up when we we're playing, ECU, Houston, Cincy, UCONN, etc... We have to get the hell out of CUSA, period!

E -- first, we have to be invited.  Secondly, why would we go someplace where we couldn't be competitive?  I'm not saying that's the case with the AAC, but it could very well be so with as much money as we'll need to go, budget yearly, etc.  Plus, we couldn't take non-qualifiers anymore, so we'd be even further disadvantaged.  It might very well work out, but it might not -- C-USA is STILL a lot better place to be than the MAC, IMO

[Herdmeister]

I totally agree! Just the thought of staying in a conference like CUSA, makes me  sick to my stomach and concerned about our future. This isn't just about Marshall, it's about what the fans want and our administration needs to listen to us. Ask yourself, do you really get up and excited watching us play Charlotte, USTA,  ODU, FIU? Be honest? I don't, in fact, I look at the schedule to see who we're playing next. I get much more fired up when we we're playing, ECU, Houston, Cincy, UCONN, etc... We have to get the hell out of CUSA, period!

Keep in mind, the president has to find a way to pay for it. With state funds drying up money is harder and harder to come by. He has a university to run, not just an athletic department. I would love to play better competition too, but we unfortunately have huge financial shortcomings.

[The E-Man]

E -- first, we have to be invited.  Secondly, why would we go someplace where we couldn't be competitive?  I'm not saying that's the case with the AAC, but it could very well be so with as much money as we'll need to go, budget yearly, etc.  Plus, we couldn't take non-qualifiers anymore, so we'd be even further disadvantaged.  It might very well work out, but it might not -- C-USA is STILL a lot better place to be than the MAC, IMO

If we do get a chance to move to the AAC, we need to step up our revenue stream. We need to reach out to more alumni and ticket prices would have to be increased. Gotta pay the cost to be the boss! as they say. I think we would still be able to recruit and do well even without NQ's.

[iherdya]

If we do get a chance to move to the AAC, we need to step up our revenue stream. We need to reach out to more alumni and ticket prices would have to be increased. Gotta pay the cost to be the boss! as they say.

that's just it, we don't have that many alumni. we could and should be doing better in the big green, that's always a work in progress, but not to the tune of millions and millions. as far as ticket prices, i think we're at our breaking point right now, any significantly higher and it'll lead to less ticket sales. our season football ticket prices are higher than almost anyone in the aac already.

anyway, largely the funding issue between us and the aac isn't in ticket sales, but in subsidy. all but two of the aac schools in 2015 received more than $20m in subsidies, many in the high $20ms, whereas our athletic department received just $12m. that's the gap in funding.

[The E-Man]

that's just it, we don't have that many alumni.

We have a very large alumni base, it's a matter of reaching out to them.

[iherdya]

We have a very large alumni base, it's a matter of reaching out to them.

not compared to the rest of fbs. as others have posted, we're the second smallest public fbs school (soon to be the smallest), which means we have one of the smallest alumni bases out there. also, our history of a ton of non-professional degrees mean our alumni on average make less than the small private school alumni base makes.

[svherd]

Not to change the subject but when I saw only 1900 freshmen were in this years class, that was alarming. If Gilbert wants to get to 15K by 2020, the recruiters need to start hustling. I have read that we are the second smallest public institution playing D1 football. That's a tall order in itself. I want to move forward and grow, both athletically and academically, but the cards are stacked against us on many fronts; and that's very concerning.

[iherdya]

Not to change the subject but when I saw only 1900 freshmen were in this years class, that was alarming. If Gilbert wants to get to 15K by 2020, the recruiters need to start hustling. I have read that we are the second smallest public institution playing D1 football. That's a tall order in itself. I want to move forward and grow, both athletically and academically, but the cards are stacked against us on many fronts; and that's very concerning.

size wise only ahead of idaho, who is moving to fcs in 2018. we're fairly close with southern miss. our fall fte (counting grad and professional schools) was 11,483. usm was 12,666. idaho was 9,421.

edit to add: wyoming and la tech are all close as well.

[MUalumni0912]

Goodness...another article with speculation and half of you are already thinking the damn sky is falling. Calm down before ya shoot in your pants.

E-Man, how about you get a petition together, seriously, with a letter, requesting the AD "Strongly look into moving Marshall to the AAC due to the fans and supporters wanting it to be so."

You should even throw in a signed pledge clause (in the event it happens) that people in the BG (who want to), sign to pledge increased donations by ___%.

Talking about it on here, isn't going to help Marshall...especially if you want it known that the fans wanna move into the AAC.


I still feel my idea of rounding totals in daily transactions as part of a donation program, will help.

I don't know stats so I'm guessing here...

3 transactions per day with an average of $1.25 in change.
If 10,000 people did that (Big Green Members plus other supporters)...you'd have roughly $12,500 per day.
Multiply that by 365 days per year? You're over $4.5 million...and that's being REAL conservative, don't forget spending on holidays and other various weekend events...which will increase change over time.
Perhaps make it able to happen with some credit card companies as well...this would be available to our out-of-state donors who may not be AS connected to the school but could still be a major part of it.

Perhaps even allow people to sign up for various options like;

Lifetime, 1 year, each time members...and give perks to the people who donate, who could, eventually gain the level of someone who gives thousands a year.

Lifetime, you get some special thing like a plaque or some awesome bricks on a wall...so ALL your transactions get rounded up with the difference in change, going to MU...for life (option to cancel though).
Yearly basis, pretty self-explanatory.
Each time...you get a prompt, asking you each time, if you wanna do that.

I think it'd be good for students, who would feel more part of the program but also not a burden on their wallets (as well as obviously, offering BG memberships, which they should be anyways, make the Maniacs a branch of the BG but giving students BG access based on their donation).


Once more, as Matthew machanganghey once said that creativity was key for the team's success.

We can/need to do the same.


Also, to help market the product, have MH and Dr. Thornton issue out the several needed upgrades and new building ideas for the next 5-10 years, so people (some NOT being athletic types) will see that their money is going to something other than sports...I guarantee you'll get a more confident support base if ya let them know where their money was going.

Just my thoughts.

[The E-Man]

Goodness...another article with speculation and half of you are already thinking the damn sky is falling. Calm down before ya shoot in your pants.

I heard more or less the same "pessimism", about Marshall moving up to division 1. How we couldn't compete athletically and academically. We're either going to think big and keep moving up the ladder, or we're going to stand still and stay small. It's the plain and simple.

[MUalumni0912]

I heard more or less the same "pessimism", about Marshall moving up to division 1. How we couldn't compete athletically and academically. We're either going to think big and keep moving up the ladder, or we're going to stand still and stay small. It's the plain and simple.

If you make a formal letter regarding the move to AAC...I'll sign it!

Pessimism is all around us, yes, I know.
But we can't keep applying the present as a pessimistic approach if we expect to move up.

Yes, MU is behind in several aspects, and that's all we seem to focus on. We should focus on moving up and ahead, and getting out of the pessimistic present we're in.

Now, where's that signature line!??

[The E-Man]

If you make a formal letter regarding the move to AAC...I'll sign it!

Pessimism is all around us, yes, I know.
But we can't keep applying the present as a pessimistic approach if we expect to move up.

Yes, MU is behind in several aspects, and that's all we seem to focus on. We should focus on moving up and ahead, and getting out of the pessimistic present we're in.

Now, where's that signature line!??

I'm going to talk to a few friends of mine, one is a major donor to the Marshall, name I'm not going to say. I'll keep everyone updated what they have to say. A petition formal letter is a very good ideal. Last time I talked to Mike Hamrick, he was concerned about what the fans had to say.

[coalherd]

Pretty clear from this thread, if a valid sample, that HERD FANS are very divided as to what they want to do regarding future of athletics.

Some FACTS needed to be established.  MU has about 100,000 alumni, or a little over, which is NOT that large or extensive.  Moreover, that base is fairly scattered, given that WV's economy has been on decline for years, and that the Huntington and Cabell County populations have fallen over the decades.  Its not like we have something like 50,000 to 60,000 alumni living just in the Huntington-Charleston area or within an hour or so from Huntington to grow fans support from.

Finally, sorry, but don't think there is a "groundswell" of enthusiasm to play a lot of the current AAC teams, in case some of their better teams move on, to Big 12, or elsewhere (namely, Houston, Cincy, or maybe even Memphis).  Was there at the Bowl game last year versus UConn, along with maybe 13000 others.  Poorly attended in a 35,000 indoor baseball facility.

Remember our games with Tulane, SMU, Tulsa, etc., at the Joan?  Did not draw significantly greater, if that, crowds than we draw now for most CUSA teams.  Yeah, we had a good, spirited rivalry with ECU, and the home games drew pretty well. But did we EVER sell out the Joan for a football game with Houston, Memphis, UCF, or even Cincy, for that matter??  In basketball, believe we sold out the Cam once against Memphis State when Coach Cal was there.  Maybe came close again a time or two when Pastner was their Coach.  Otherwise, except maybe when Donnie Jones came to town once or twice, don't think any other basketball sellouts against teams now in the AAC.  Game against Cincy a few years ago in the Charleston CC barely drew 5000 in a 12,000 arena.

Just don't see ANY EVIDENCE that AAC membership will immediately guarantee 35,000+ fans per game at the Joan versus the 26,000 or so we draw now, or 8,000-9000 per game at the Cam versus the 5400 we average now in CUSA!!

[Sam-I-am]

I believe too many of you are placing too much on what Gilbert said.  That was simple professionalism.  Why would you badmouth your own league by stating "we can't wait to get out of here?"  Do piss on a steak you're still eating.....  ;)

[bbcard1]

Better watch out, you will get blasted on here for saying this. I know I did, but I agree with you.

You got blasted for whining like a four-year-old girl and threatening to take your ball and go home.