Topic: This Kiffen thing is going to be fun.....

[chris88]

They lost to Buffalo. Time will tell, but I've seen them 3 times and their offense has been far and away the best I've seen in CUSA this year.  Question is how will their defense hold up vs better teams.

[Scottyo614]

E if Doc gets out coached by Kiffen we know where we stand. Kiffen is a good recruiter and a below average head coach. When you see Saban the last couple years like he was with Lane it speaks volumes.

[The E-Man]

E if Doc gets out coached by Kiffen we know where we stand. Kiffen is a good recruiter and a below average head coach. When you see Saban the last couple years like he was with Lane it speaks volumes.

If you were a betting man in Vegas, who would you put your money on Doc, or Kiffen? lol..

[coalherd]

It's like someone said in a different thread. Our defense hasn't really been tested. NC St was the only team and they probably played their worst game and took us for granted the 1st half. And they scored 37 against us. Other than that we haven't played anyone with a pulse. Now I think our D is the best part of our team. But they aren't as good as some are trying to make out. We just haven't played anyone to test them other than NC St and that was 37.

Well, we also botched what should have been an easy field goal at State and had a kickoff return for a touchdown called back.  Score could have easily been 30-37, their favor.

Loss is a loss, regardless of the score.  Just like in basketball.  What good does scoring over a hundred points against a so-so Pitt team when you allow them to score more and lose.  Or allow a mediocre Ohio State to score well over a hundred in a 30+ embarrassing loss.  When is basketball team going to start producing on the road against quality opponents and come back with some Ws instead of Ls??  Need to take the next step and pass the tests against the like of Illinois and Xavier this season.

[Scottyo614]

If you were a betting man in Vegas, who would you put your money on Doc, or Kiffen? lol..

The truth? Doc. Kiffen is playing Docs game but way younger.

[lovetheherd2]

If you were a betting man in Vegas, who would you put your money on Doc, or Kiffen? lol..

OK E-Man, so you bet - favor an egotistical erratic, offensive guru, who lost his job at Tennessee, then USC & pushed Saban to wave goodbye to his antics?????

Here's where we change directions. And I expect quite a few smites, negatives, etc.

I prefer a man of character, despite flawed coaching (some think he is correct) strategy.

I'll put John Doc Holiday first before Kiffin any day, any time.

No offense - you choose yours, I'll choose mine on character and commitment.

All good, just different vision for Marshall Athletics...

[The E-Man]

OK E-Man, so you bet - favor an egotistical erratic, offensive guru, who lost his job at Tennessee, then USC & pushed Saban to wave goodbye to his antics?????

Here's where we change directions. And I expect quite a few smites, negatives, etc.

I prefer a man of character, despite flawed coaching (some think he is correct) strategy.

I'll put John Doc Holiday first before Kiffin any day, any time.

No offense - you choose yours, I'll choose mine on character and commitment.

All good, just different vision for Marshall Athletics...

I never said Doc didn't have character and he probably is committed. At the end of the day, you, and I both know it's about winning. I'm not talking about winning just enough to keep your job, I'm talking about ( conference championships) this is where you and I are deeply divided on. Again, Doc has just ( One CUSA CHAMPIONSHIP IN 7 SEASONS!, Are you content and happy with that?) It's not like we're in the ACC, we're in a very low FBS conference.

[The E-Man]

OK E-Man, so you bet - favor an egotistical erratic, offensive guru, who lost his job at Tennessee, then USC & pushed Saban to wave goodbye to his antics?????

Here's where we change directions. And I expect quite a few smites, negatives, etc.

I prefer a man of character, despite flawed coaching (some think he is correct) strategy.

I'll put John Doc Holiday first before Kiffin any day, any time.

No offense - you choose yours, I'll choose mine on character and commitment.

All good, just different vision for Marshall Athletics...

The one thing I didn't mentioned is Western Kentucky's Jeff Brohm, in ( 3 seasons  he won 2 CUSA CHAMPIONSHIPS!) Brohm and Doc shared the same recruiting level. If anything Doc may have had a leg up on Brohm. Yet Brohm ran circles around Doc, it was just a different level of coaching. Look, I'm cheering for Doc to win some championships and redeem the Herd to a "respectful level of football" I'm waiting until seasons end. I hope like hell, we can be cheering a field goal post coming down at home for a conference championship. And, BTW, I can't stand Kiffen! I hope like hell we rock his world!!

[banker]

Kiffin should spend his time worrying about his 96th ranked defense instead of tweeting.

[The E-Man]

He is tweeting out that FAU has the best chance to win CUSA according to some matrix...he also used Saban's rat poison comment...we have a few challenging games coming up after ODU...UTSA, USM and FIU are going to be competitive...WKU is only scoring 22 points a game now that Brohm is gone.

This should be very good bulletin board material for our clubhouse.

[lovetheherd2]

The one thing I didn't mentioned is Western Kentucky's Jeff Brohm, in ( 3 seasons  he won 2 CUSA CHAMPIONSHIPS!) Brohm and Doc shared the same recruiting level. If anything Doc may have had a leg up on Brohm. Yet Brohm ran circles around Doc, it was just a different level of coaching. Look, I'm cheering for Doc to win some championships and redeem the Herd to a "respectful level of football" I'm waiting until seasons end. I hope like hell, we can be cheering a field goal post coming down at home for a conference championship.

OK E-Man, you can have Brohm, recruiting the guy who drank too much & got in a fight with Marshall fraternity bros or friends. You can have Brohm who is now gone from WKU.

I also think he's a very smart offensive minded coach.

But I also think he has cut corners that I do NOT want Marshall to cut. Marshall has some history with NCAA & infractions.

I do not want to see Mother Marshall painted in that picture. My tenure goes back quite a ways. I NEVER again want to explain why we have probation, why we lose scholarships, we we are penalized. It's embarrassing, disappointing and depressing.

I look at some coaches who might come in, eliminate the cemetery run in favor of more weight lifting or other off season training.

You choose your coach, I'll choose mine. By the way, I worship Pruett and his accomplishments. But I also think during his time, the loss of scholarships from the NCAA cost us momentum and respect.

Again, we take different roads to excellence. OK..... go for it. I've seen the bad side of choosing incorrectly.. 

[The E-Man]

Again, we take different roads to excellence. OK..... go for it. I've seen the bad side of choosing incorrectly..

I'm all for "excellence too" but my heavens, how long is it going to take? We're in year 8 and waiting! I've seen the bad side of choosing incorrectly to for 6 out of the last 7 years and counting.

[Ovaltine Jenkins]

Brohm is one helluva coach.  The record speaks for itself.

[The E-Man]

OK E-Man,you can have Brohm, recruiting the guy who drank too much & got in a fight with Marshall fraternity bros or friends. You can have Brohm who is now gone from WKU.

I also think he's a very smart offensive minded coach.

But I also think he has cut corners that I do NOT want Marshall to cut. Marshall has some history with NCAA & infractions.

The same can be said of a coach recruiting players that are involved in selling heroin, getting shot, players up and leaving at a high rate, etc... We can go back and forth with this. As for Brohm, nothing has came about of any recruiting violations. Why do you think Brohm cut corners, because he owned us?

[lovetheherd2]

I'm all for "excellence too" but my heavens, how long is it going to take? We're in your 8 and waiting! I've seen the bad side of choosing incorrectly to for 6 out of the last 7 years and counting.

You say that at 4-1, maybe also @ 5-1.  I think you said 9-3 & CUSA Championship...

OK - say it's 9-3 and lost the BIG game but got good bowl game.

As I understand it. Fire Doc & Legg- start all over. Heater will leave and all new coaches. Some will stay a year or two, some not.

9-3 or near that & bowl game after last years dumpster fire. .... I am really pleased.

OK if you see otherwise.

[HERDFAN1999]

Kiffin should spend his time worrying about his 96th ranked defense instead of tweeting.

And incredibly dumb to poke one of the most accomplished and most influential coaches in the history of the game.

[The E-Man]

You say that at 4-1, maybe also @ 5-1.  I think you said 9-3 & CUSA Championship...

OK - say it's 9-3 and lost the BIG game but got good bowl game.

As I understand it. Fire Doc & Legg- start all over. Heater will leave and all new coaches. Some will stay a year or two, some not.

9-3 or near that & bowl game after last years dumpster fire. .... I am really pleased.

OKif you see otherwise.

When there's a coaching change, most new coaches keep a few good coaches around. They do their homework and I'm sure Heater would be a coach that would be retained if ask to do so. Look, I'm still hoping for a CUSA CHAMPIONSHIP THIS YEAR, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO REPEAT IT? Can Doc get it done? time will tell. One things for certain, time has been kind  to Doc, and on his side in the tune of 7 seasons.

[The E-Man]

9-3 or near that & bowl game after last years dumpster fire. .... I am really pleased.
OKif you see otherwise.

OK, since you, and I, are on a roll and being open. What if Doc doesn't make it to (a CUSA championship game, are you willing to say you're pleased with 7 or 8 wins? if so,) Do you("accept being a mediocre Herd fan?) Now these are strait down the pipe truthful answers, I'm expecting from you. This is going to be a very interesting rebuttal coming from you.

[HERDFAN1999]

You say that at 4-1, maybe also @ 5-1.  I think you said 9-3 & CUSA Championship...

OK - say it's 9-3 and lost the BIG game but got good bowl game.

As I understand it. Fire Doc & Legg- start all over. Heater will leave and all new coaches. Some will stay a year or two, some not.

9-3 or near that & bowl game after last years dumpster fire. .... I am really pleased.

OKif you see otherwise.

At some point it has to be about championships especially in our confrerence.  Is one in eight years acceptable?  If we say after last year's debacle then last year actually lowered our expectations for this year as well.  I dont think we should accept always looking forward to next year.  I hope i'm wrong but we may have topped out with the current group especially since Doc refuses to make a change offensively.  It is like we are running with a restrictor plate.

My opinion, the time for talking about it is over.  Doc needs to start delivering championships. That is what our standard should be and once every eight years - and counting - doesn't cut it.

[The E-Man]

At some point it has to be about championships especially in our confrerence.  Is one in eight years acceptable?  If we say after last year's debacle then last year actually lowered our expectations for this year as well.  I dont think we should accept always looking forward to next year.  I hope i'm wrong but we may have topped out with the current group especially since Doc refuses to make a change offensively.  It is like we are running with a restrictor plate.

My opinion, the time for talking about it is over.  Doc needs to start delivering championships. That is what our standard should be and once every eight years - and counting - doesn't cut it.[/b

Thank You! for breaking it all the way down!

[Apollo]

You say that at 4-1, maybe also @ 5-1.  I think you said 9-3 & CUSA Championship...

OK - say it's 9-3 and lost the BIG game but got good bowl game.

As I understand it. Fire Doc & Legg- start all over. Heater will leave and all new coaches. Some will stay a year or two, some not.

9-3 or near that & bowl game after last years dumpster fire. .... I am really pleased.

OKif you see otherwise.

Please...the only good bowl game we can get is the Access Bowl and we couldn't get that with an undefeated record bco our schedule. We've already seen that.

[MUonium]

two sides to a coin....that half that says be careful what i wish for

the next coach could fail in 4 yrs, then the next coach could fail in 4 yrs, then the next coach could fail in 4 yrs.  could be any number of miserable yrs.  i ask myself all the time, have i had 8 miserable yrs?   the answer is no.  could they have been better?  yes.  out of 130 or whatever schools, how many have won conference championships?  should i be grateful for one every 10 ys or so or should i expect 5 of 10?  are my expectations too high or too low...only Yoda know  :) 

[Apollo]

two sides to a coin....that half that says be careful what i wish for

the next coach could fail in 4 yrs, then the next coach could fail in 4 yrs, then the next coach could fail in 4 yrs.  could be any number of miserable yrs.  i ask myself all the time, have i had 8 miserable yrs?   the answer is no.  could they have been better?  yes.  out of 130 or whatever schools, how many have won conference championships?  should i be grateful for one every 10 ys or so or should i expect 5 of 10? are my expectations too high or too low...only Yoda know  :)

Given the landscape of college football these days, I think you hit the mark there. On one side I think maybe my expectations are too high because I really do think we could do better. Then you look at SOS and everything else that goes into us getting into the Access and you have to think, most years in this conference the best we're likely to do is UCONN in Florida. It is what it is but with bowls what they are nowadays, a conference title means more than any bowl but the Access and, to be blunt, we aren't getting it done in a crap conference. 1 in 8 years.

[coalherd]

OK, since you, and I, are on a roll and being open. What if Doc doesn't make it to (a CUSA championship game, are you willing to say you're pleased with 7 or 8 wins? if so,) Do you("accept being a mediocre Herd fan?) Now these are strait down the pipe truthful answers, I'm expecting from you. This is going to be a very interesting rebuttal coming from you.

Unfortunately, E-Man, it is becoming increasingly obvious that Mike Hamrick is going to be satisfied with 7 or 8 win seasons as a "norm".  "Playing for Championship" are just words for MH, it seems. 

Protects him from having to make much needed staffing changes.  Keeps him from having to make distasteful personnel decisions concerning long time buddies from his Kanawha Valley days.  Also, keeps him from having to go through another coaching change/hiring process.  A process which the evidence clearly shows he has been average to mediocre in performing throughout his entire athletic director career, at MU and elsewhere.

The only recourse that MU fans have, IMO, is to make it abundantly clear to both MH and higher ups in Marshall's administration is if that is going to be the "norm" for Herd football, then they need to get use to about 18,000 or more empty seats at the Joan for every home game as a "norm" too!!!

[bighat]

Just win!!!