Topic: Dshoe-F/U questions please

[81MU]

I'm sure I speak for many when I say I really appreciate your national perspective on the various topics regarding sports and the media. I'm proud you have done so well as an MU grad.


I did want to ask some follow up questions regarding your responses about the BE. Money talks-why, even prior to the shifting of the BE did they have the least lucrative contract in Football if so many people were dialed in across the BE market ?   I think the league received about 15 mil. vs 30 mil for ACC. I believe after the raid/shift  the numbers are like 7 mil/BE vs 45 mil ACC vs 8 mil CUSA . Most would certainly see the BE as vastly devalued and expect a contract change which did happen. People do surf channels on TV and it never ceases to amaze me how empty the stadiums are at Rutgers, Pitt, Syr,  and even Uconn "sellouts" but the place is empty 4th quarter. What it means are no real fan committment just casual interest in yes, venues with great populations.

If the BE is such a draw why are all the Bowls bailing on them ? Why don't  their fans travel ? My conclusion is they don't have great fan bases.

I don't disagree that the BE is a "cut above" the mid-major conferences but the reality is the BCS bid is what keeps them apart. The other conferences are closer to the BE than the BE is to the other 5 real power conferences. Your own industry contracts validate that . In round numbers aren't CUSA and MWC contracts closer to the BE than the BE to ACC, Big 10,12, etc. ?

I agree we don't need to bash the BE . However, your Alumni brothers/sisters at MU are hardly alone in this endeavor. I think it is some natural law  to attack the weakling and the BE is clearly entrenched in that role. Talking heads on TV, the print media and fans across the country clearly don't see the BE as deserving an Auto-bid to the BCS.  They may well maintain the bid for now but the issue of the legitimacy of their inclusion won't go away without results on the field.  No amount of history will help and the cries of foul will be deafening.  [/quote]

[dshoe]

Your question and observations are very good, excellent in fact.

The questions isn't whether or not the BE is as good or as highly rated as the Big Ten or the ACC or any of the other 4 power conferences.......it isn't, wasn't then and certainly isn't now.............but the gap between the BE and the power conferences isn't as big as the game between the non BCS conf's and the BE.............

The BE looks MORE like the MAJORS than it does the mid-majors

the TV contracts and bowl contracts are and have been reflective of that.

Bashing the BE won't make CUSA or MWC any better nor will it close any of the gaps..............in fact MU's goal and the goal of most fans on this and other MU boards is to someday play in the BE or some permutation of the Big East...............

one question you ask:  "I did want to ask some follow up questions regarding your responses about the BE. Money talks-why, even prior to the shifting of the BE did they have the least lucrative contract in Football if so many people were dialed in across the BE market ? I think the league received about 15 mil. vs 30 mil for ACC. I believe after the raid/shift the numbers are like 7 mil/BE vs 45 mil ACC vs 8 mil CUSA . Most would certainly see the BE as vastly devalued and expect a contract change which did happen. People do surf channels on TV and it never ceases to amaze me how empty the stadiums are at Rutgers, Pitt, Syr, and even Uconn "sellouts" but the place is empty 4th quarter. What it means are no real fan committment just casual interest in yes, venues with great populations"

Good question here, certainly the Big East has challenges at is lower end and adding U Cincy and USF doesn't help them much, if at all..........but they will, I think make progress at their core schools, Syracuse, Pitt and WVU along with UConn.........and Rutgers is getting better..............and Louisville is getting close to becoming a true MAJOR...look for them to expand Papa John's before long...........but with respect to TV dollars, it probably says more about Eastern FB than anything else.........also TV contracts have to be taken in the perspective of the overall climate at the time they are being negotiated.......both the original MWC and CUSA deals happened at a time when Fox Sports Net seemed to be a challengeing newcomer on the horizon..........and they drove up the cost of doing business with those conferences.........just as CSTV is doing today................the BE didn't really have that option at the timing of their negotiations...............Fox didn't become the "powerful challenger" and CSTV will struggle to do so as well............so that has "skewed" the $$$$'s somewhat.......understand this though about Money.....it's not just about how much you get paid, but all about the VALUE of the TV exposure in the deal..........the BE has gotten outstanding windows and huge exposure..........even if CSTV pays big dollars, the real value of the package to the league will be in whether or not they can deliver on the EXPOSURE OR VIEWER SIDE......and they will struggle mightily there.

[ZackUSAF82]

As always Dan, appreciate the insight. There aren't many people, especially of your stature, that would take the time to type a post like this one, and the two in the thread below. Good to get a real answer with someone who has real answers and not merely speculation.

[Thundering Lydia]

There aren't many people, especially of your stature . . . .

C'mon.  Dan's not THAT tall.   :o

Good discussion, here.  Thanks, guys.

One question I have, though---the old chicken and egg question:

Can schools like Louisville and U-Conn achieve "major" status on their own . . . or can they achieve that status by working with a core group of likeminded institutions . . . or does it simply demand inclusion in a BCS league?

In other words, are Louisville and UConn "major" programs in their own right, or simply because that are now part of a "major" conference?

It seems to me that BCS conferences provide a financial lifeline which allows a school to achieve and maintain the "major" status you talk about, Dan; as such, there exists such a disparity in revenues between the haves and have-nots, that---short of inclusion in one of the BCS revenue troughs---schools like Marshall have little hope in climbing that mountain, regardless of their ability to compete athletically.

Your thoughts?

[81MU]

Dshoe, Thanks for the response. I wish we could get all your threads over the past 2 days and "sticky it" permanently at the top of the board. You have given a veritable primer on sports/marketing/TV issues.  As fans our objectivity is sometimes lost looking at issues with only geen glasses.



[/quote]

[greenskeeper]

My question is WHY in the HECK didn't the new BE see the writing on the wall and simply start a new 12 team all sport conference? It works out so easily with Marshall ECU and Memphis in the mix I simply had to scratch my head...If you add Marshall's football and Memphis' basketball while gaining a NC market it simply is too easily done, with GREAT contractual negotiating possibilities. Logistically it makes great cents as well...

Lousiville    Rutgers
Cincy         Syracuse
Marshall     UConn
Memphis    Pitt
ECU           WVu

[HerdZone]

My question is WHY in the HECK didn't the new BE see the writing on the wall and simply start a new 12 team all sport conference? It works out so easily with Marshall ECU and Memphis in the mix I simply had to scratch my head...If you add Marshall's football and Memphis' basketball while gaining a NC market it simply is too easily done, with GREAT contractual negotiating possibilities. Logistically it makes great cents as well...

Lousiville    Rutgers
Cincy         Syracuse
Marshall     UConn
Memphis    Pitt
ECU           WVu

Simply put GK, at the time I don't think any of us had all of our ducks in a row. Neither did Cincy or USF but they had to take someone and they were in CUSA and they were afforded the opportunity to go a head of us. I think this 5-6 year window is a chance for all of us to get it together.

Thigs that are going on or have went on

Marshall
----------
Baseball/Softball Stadium
Weight Room
IPF
Field Truf
Dorms
Bio-Tech-(Med School)

ECU
-----
Dorms
Baseball field
New Tech Center

Memphis
----------
Field Turf
Fed Ex Center
Dorms refrubished
Liberty Bowl

UCF
-----
On Campus Stadum
Baketball Arena
Dorms
Parking Garage (2)

[marcbuff]

Dan, I know you are close to the folks at USF. Today, maybe they are not with the established powers in the BE but potentially could be a real force sooner than later. The Bulls got the Tenneessee QB that was looking to transfer the other day. He started the first three games for UT as a Frosh before the injury. He will find at home at USF. As you know, Brandon Armwood produces more D-1 recruits than the whole state of West Virginia. The Tampa area high school football is some of the best in Florida.1-A Ft Meade, 5-A Lakeland and 6-A Armwood all state champs. USF is the largest school in Fla and keeping some of this talent home is a Bull priority.

[carolinaherdfan]

Marcuff, your post is very accurate. However, my father lived the last 30 years of his life in the Carrollwood area of Tampa. I, have spent a lot of time in the area, and in all honesty USF, is not even a blimp on the radar screen in that area. However, I will agree, that the potential is always there. However, it is a major sports city. Trying to compare USF with the major programs in Fla., or even UCF for that matter is like comparing MU with Ohio U. Southern Campus.

GO THUNDERINGHERD!

 :smile:

[marcbuff]

Hold On Carolina- UCF??????? Don't get me started about U Can't Finish in Orlando. Remember, Im a USF Grad too :o

[carolinaherdfan]

Deal, and by the way my father took classes there as well. He was a retired US Army officer who fought during War II, overseas. He, also retired as a mgr. with the US Federal Govt.. He lived in Tampa for several reasons, not the least of which was MacDill AFB. I, think I am right about the people paying attention to the program, but I will admit they very well could be a sleeping giant, and I do mean Giant.

I enjoyed engaging you here, and also, enjoy reading your posts.
Thanks for all of the inciteful information you post. If, I came across to you in a condescending manner, I apoligize.

GO THUNDERINGHERD!

 :cool:

[marcbuff]

you didn't, Im just messin' with ya. I did go and still go to USF for classes but Im not a big follower. Potential is what they have but like Pennington said once" Potential means you haven't done anything yet".

[dshoe]

My question is WHY in the HECK didn't the new BE see the writing on the wall and simply start a new 12 team all sport conference? It works out so easily with Marshall ECU and Memphis in the mix I simply had to scratch my head...If you add Marshall's football and Memphis' basketball while gaining a NC market it simply is too easily done, with GREAT contractual negotiating possibilities. Logistically it makes great cents as well...

Because they couldn't agree on how to divide the NCAA Basketball shares due them in the 6 year cycle.........most of the dollars were earned by the schools that also play FB..........monies would stay with the conference however..............so they agreed to stay together for 5 years.

[dshoe]

There aren't many people, especially of your stature . . . .

One question I have, though---the old chicken and egg question:

Can schools like Louisville and U-Conn achieve "major" status on their own . . . or can they achieve that status by working with a core group of likeminded institutions . . . or does it simply demand inclusion in a BCS league?

In other words, are Louisville and UConn "major" programs in their own right, or simply because that are now part of a "major" conference?

It seems to me that BCS conferences provide a financial lifeline which allows a school to achieve and maintain the "major" status you talk about, Dan; as such, there exists such a disparity in revenues between the haves and have-nots, that---short of inclusion in one of the BCS revenue troughs---schools like Marshall have little hope in climbing that mountain, regardless of their ability to compete athletically.

Your thoughts?

Louisville did it while in CUSA.............UConn is doing it by association............

you certainly can get there either way, but within a league is easier and faster................without the conference affiliation you have no margin for error.